To neuter or not to neuter?

[AspenBud]

Let's flip the conversation on its head.

The breeder I got one of my dog's from found that a pup in a different litter some years later had a heart murmur and that it was a genetically passed on thing. The issue was so severe that the dog would never be able to hunt and exercise would need to be very moderate and the odds were highly stacked against the dog getting much beyond a year. Up until the issue was found the dog was the pick of the litter.

She neutered the dog, so no one could ever try to breed it and pass on the defect, at six months and found a vet to adopt him.

The dog was still chugging along at age 2 last I heard.

I call that responsible breeding.

Incidentally, that same breeder is a vet at an animal shelter and I recently saw her post a rant about spaying and neutering because in two days time she had to put down three dogs for pyometra and a couple more still as a result of complications from mammary tumors. All preventable if the dogs had been spayed, especially before that first heat cycle.

Again, be practical, do what works for you, and research research research the breeds, breedings, health certs, and pedigrees you are interested in before buying. Those are ultimately much more important than holding off on spaying or neutering...in my opinion.

[Happy Gilmore]

If the lady was a smart Vet and responsible breeder she would have had the breeding pairs' hearts checked via echocardiogram before doing the breeding. It's a common condition to some breeds and the breeding pair should be checked. Likelyhood is that they weren't. Pick of the litter means nothing at all.

[Stilly bay]

Let's flip the conversation on its head.

The breeder I got one of my dog's from found that a pup in a different litter some years later had a heart murmur and that it was a genetically passed on thing. The issue was so severe that the dog would never be able to hunt and exercise would need to be very moderate and the odds were highly stacked against the dog getting much beyond a year. Up until the issue was found the dog was the pick of the litter.

She neutered the dog, so no one could ever try to breed it and pass on the defect, at six months and found a vet to adopt him.

The dog was still chugging along at age 2 last I heard.

I call that responsible breeding.

Incidentally, that same breeder is a vet at an animal shelter and I recently saw her post a rant about spaying and neutering because in two days time she had to put down three dogs for pyometra and a couple more still as a result of complications from mammary tumors. All preventable if the dogs had been spayed, especially before that first heat cycle.

Again, be practical, do what works for you, and research research research the breeds, breedings, health certs, and pedigrees you are interested in before buying. Those are ultimately much more important than holding off on spaying or neutering...in my opinion.

I think its safe to say at this point in the argument neutering early and spaying early are two completely different cans of worm.

but agreeably the worst thing you can do is ignorantly breed dogs together without proper testing, or even worse breed them despite their physical/genetic defects. thats why were in the mess we are today and thats why the label "Backyard breeder" is not something to be proud of.

[AspenBud]

If the lady was a smart Vet and responsible breeder she would have had the breeding pairs' hearts checked via echocardiogram before doing the breeding. It's a common condition to some breeds and the breeding pair should be checked. Likelyhood is that they weren't.

Nice try.

[AspenBud]

Let's flip the conversation on its head.

The breeder I got one of my dog's from found that a pup in a different litter some years later had a heart murmur and that it was a genetically passed on thing. The issue was so severe that the dog would never be able to hunt and exercise would need to be very moderate and the odds were highly stacked against the dog getting much beyond a year. Up until the issue was found the dog was the pick of the litter.

She neutered the dog, so no one could ever try to breed it and pass on the defect, at six months and found a vet to adopt him.

The dog was still chugging along at age 2 last I heard.

I call that responsible breeding.

Incidentally, that same breeder is a vet at an animal shelter and I recently saw her post a rant about spaying and neutering because in two days time she had to put down three dogs for pyometra and a couple more still as a result of complications from mammary tumors. All preventable if the dogs had been spayed, especially before that first heat cycle.

Again, be practical, do what works for you, and research research research the breeds, breedings, health certs, and pedigrees you are interested in before buying. Those are ultimately much more important than holding off on spaying or neutering...in my opinion.

I think its safe to say at this point in the argument neutering early and spaying early are two completely different cans of worm.

but agreeably the worst thing you can do is ignorantly breed dogs together without proper testing, or even worse breed them despite their physical/genetic defects. thats why were in the mess we are today and thats why the label "Backyard breeder" is not something to be proud of.

Agreed

[wildweeds]

I had the nuts knocked off of an 18 month old and gave him away on to a fella on this board the dog had been hunted 2 years.The dog was sired by a really big named multiple AF AA ch,and he had a genetic flaw.I had them knocked off so the pool would be as clean as it can be.

[Happy Gilmore]

If the lady was a smart Vet and responsible breeder she would have had the breeding pairs' hearts checked via echocardiogram before doing the breeding. It's a common condition to some breeds and the breeding pair should be checked. Likelyhood is that they weren't.

Nice try.

Obviously, if she produced a pup with a heart condition she didn't first have the parents checked to potentially eliminate either parent from the gene pool like Wildweeds suggested. If someone is cited as a professional and they themselves don't take proper steps to ensure good breedings, how good is the information you provide which came from that person?

Vets are taught how to repair sick animals. They do not take extensive courses on genetics and reproduction unless it is part of a specialty they are pursuing. I went to a animal eye clinic and they didn't know about PRA testing? I mean WTF? I offended the DVM because I told her I was shocked she was not up to date on the genetic testing available which can eliminate the vary diseases which she's getting paid to diagnose.

If you need some slice and dice or, kill some bad bug to keep your pet alive, vets are great. They aren't often knowledgable on many other issues because it doesn't serve a purpose to keep an animal alive. Long time breeders on the other hand, have the "battlefield" experience and knowledge of pedigree and pre-dispositions of traits and issues with bloodlines. No vet will be able to come up with anything close to real world knowledge of breedings and often some folks's pedigree knowledge.

Knowing how to treat disease and disorder is priority.

[Stilly bay]

If only people as much thought into the breeding of their own children as they did their animals. The world would undoubtedly be a better place with fewer genetic issues and diseases, instead we just crank out babies with little regard to the child's life and potential complications.... just saying.

[Southpole]

If only people as much thought into the breeding of their own children as they did their animals. The world would undoubtedly be a better place with fewer genetic issues and diseases, instead we just crank out babies with little regard to the child's life and potential complications.... just saying.

My thoughts exactly! Thanks a bunch mom and dad for the crappy thin hair and veiny white skin

[AspenBud]

If the lady was a smart Vet and responsible breeder she would have had the breeding pairs' hearts checked via echocardiogram before doing the breeding. It's a common condition to some breeds and the breeding pair should be checked. Likelyhood is that they weren't.

Nice try.

Obviously, if she produced a pup with a heart condition she didn't first have the parents checked to potentially eliminate either parent from the gene pool like Wildweeds suggested. If someone is cited as a professional and they themselves don't take proper steps to ensure good breedings, how good is the information you provide which came from that person?

Vets are taught how to repair sick animals. They do not take extensive courses on genetics and reproduction unless it is part of a specialty they are pursuing. I went to a animal eye clinic and they didn't know about PRA testing? I mean WTF? I offended the DVM because I told her I was shocked she was not up to date on the genetic testing available which can eliminate the vary diseases which she's getting paid to diagnose.

If you need some slice and dice or, kill some bad bug to keep your pet alive, vets are great. They aren't often knowledgable on many other issues because it doesn't serve a purpose to keep an animal alive. Long time breeders on the other hand, have the "battlefield" experience and knowledge of pedigree and pre-dispositions of traits and issues with bloodlines. No vet will be able to come up with anything close to real world knowledge of breedings and often some folks's pedigree knowledge.

Knowing how to treat disease and disorder is priority.

Well you're wrong on the first point and I'm sorry you've had a bad run with vets. But condemning the profession like that is like saying you're a poor breeder because of all of the puppy mills out there or because someone got a dud from a breeder (it happens) or because you breed AKC dogs (a group that many FDSB folks would say has done more to wreck working breeds than improve them) you breed junk dogs and don't know what you are doing. None of those are fair characterizations about you I suspect and your comments about the veterinary world are not either.

A number of breeders out there are, in fact, veterinarians and some even agree with you on spaying and neutering so I would suggest you stop while you are ahead. 

[Happy Gilmore]

I have not had any bad runs with vets. As I said, there are just as many studies supporting one side as the other. Just because someone is a vet surely doesn't make them a more competent or, well informed breeder than one who isn't.

Good luck getting me to step out of a discussion..lol..

[WRL]

If the lady was a smart Vet and responsible breeder she would have had the breeding pairs' hearts checked via echocardiogram before doing the breeding. It's a common condition to some breeds and the breeding pair should be checked. Likelyhood is that they weren't. Pick of the litter means nothing at all.

The cancers mentioned in the studies are particularly fast growing and in GOLDENS, they can and do strike from the 4 to 6 years of age category.

Alos, folks......"early neutering" for that study is any time before 12 months of age.

WRL