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Author Topic: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.  (Read 6352 times)

Offline Kain

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WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« on: August 19, 2013, 11:44:39 AM »
http://methowvalleynews.com/2013/07/31/managing-the-big-cats/


May be using this model to manage wolves. 

Offline Curly

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2013, 11:50:54 AM »
Quote
“The concept of thinking about cougars’ social system and how they interact, in terms of management, is something that has never been done before,” said Rich Beausoleil, cougar and bear specialist for Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife.

Rich Beausoleil is a real piece of work.   :bash:
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Offline whacker1

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2013, 11:54:23 AM »
tag

Offline BIGINNER

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2013, 11:55:40 AM »
so,... hunting is bad.   :bash:

what about the young cats that get chased away by older cats and end up in someones back yard?  we've had about 5 or 6 cougar sightings in tri cites over the past 2 years. most ended up being killed by police.

Offline Kain

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2013, 12:02:18 PM »
Yea the whole thing is a bunch of crap but when the "lead researcher" of the studies is designing the hunting regulations this is what you get. 


Fact: boot hunters take more juvenile cats.  source:(http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/00433/wdfw00433.pdf  Page 86)  The exact same cats that the older males would kill anyways.  Limiting hunting season has nothing to do with "science based strategies" and has everything to do with stroking ego's and playing politics. 
 
2012 numbers are in also 139 hunter harvest 20 other

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2013, 12:02:48 PM »
I see now. If we never hunt wolves, they'll kill themselves and we won't have them anymore. This is genius!

Knowing the stark differences between the solitary nature of a male cougar and the extremely social nature of wolves, how can a supposed biologist say that this study might well be a help in creating the management plan for the wolves? There are no similarities other than that they are predators. It's like dogs and cats. Oh, it IS dogs and cats. Yeah, someone's an idiot and that someone is most of the WDFW. Wow!
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Offline Old Dog

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2013, 12:05:47 PM »
Honestly guys, he sounded pretty good until he said it could used for wolf management.  He lost all credibility at that point.  As we all know, wolves are pack animals, and the wolves that have invaded WA are from the prairies where they preyed on the large herds of bison, forming large packs of large wolves to do so.  How the heck does that stack up to one male cougar?   :bash:
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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2013, 12:10:22 PM »
Ah, so a younger cougar will fight a bigger mature cougar to the death instead of running away...... Interesting..... :)

Offline Gringo31

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2013, 12:13:54 PM »
So....if you kill the adult dominant male...

Quote
Often two or more younger cats enter the territory formerly occupied by a single adult male.

But it then grows because

Quote
Instead of one you now have three cougars,” Beausoleil explained.

and get even worse because...

Quote
“If you live in one of those areas where a male was removed, instead of seeing one, now your potential is to see three or four because those animals are too young to defend their home range. Now you’re thinking, ‘Holy smokes, the cougar population really exploded.’ It really hasn’t, it’s a temporary chaotic condition.”

Same BS with the wolf speeches I've been too.  They want to help us too!  The is PRESERVATION not CONSERVATION and smells like BS. 

Apparently, they would prefer cats to kill each other more than they would prefer you to kill one.
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Offline Kain

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2013, 12:26:58 PM »
So....if you kill the adult dominant male...

Quote
Often two or more younger cats enter the territory formerly occupied by a single adult male.

But it then grows because

Quote
Instead of one you now have three cougars,” Beausoleil explained.

and get even worse because...

Quote
“If you live in one of those areas where a male was removed, instead of seeing one, now your potential is to see three or four because those animals are too young to defend their home range. Now you’re thinking, ‘Holy smokes, the cougar population really exploded.’ It really hasn’t, it’s a temporary chaotic condition.”

Same BS with the wolf speeches I've been too.  They want to help us too!  The is PRESERVATION not CONSERVATION and smells like BS. 

Apparently, they would prefer cats to kill each other more than they would prefer you to kill one.

Exactly.

Not exactly in keeping with their legislative mandate but since when did they care about what the law is.

Quote
RCW 77.04.012
Mandate of department and commission.

Wildlife, fish, and shellfish are the property of the state. The commission, director, and the department shall preserve, protect, perpetuate, and manage the wildlife and food fish, game fish, and shellfish in state waters and offshore waters.

     The department shall conserve the wildlife and food fish, game fish, and shellfish resources in a manner that does not impair the resource. In a manner consistent with this goal, the department shall seek to maintain the economic well-being and stability of the fishing industry in the state. The department shall promote orderly fisheries and shall enhance and improve recreational and commercial fishing in this state.

     The commission may authorize the taking of wildlife, food fish, game fish, and shellfish only at times or places, or in manners or quantities, as in the judgment of the commission does not impair the supply of these resources.

     The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.


     Recognizing that the management of our state wildlife, food fish, game fish, and shellfish resources depends heavily on the assistance of volunteers, the department shall work cooperatively with volunteer groups and individuals to achieve the goals of this title to the greatest extent possible.

     Nothing in this title shall be construed to infringe on the right of a private property owner to control the owner's private property.


[2000 c 107 § 2; 1983 1st ex.s. c 46 § 5; 1975 1st ex.s. c 183 § 1; 1949 c 112 § 3, part; Rem. Supp. 1949 § 5780-201, part. Formerly RCW 75.08.012, 43.25.020.]

Notes:
State policy regarding improvement of recreational salmon fishing: See note following RCW 77.65.150.


Offline snowpack

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2013, 12:28:20 PM »
When hounds were available, hunters were able to be selective and pass on females and small males---focusing on taking the 'older, dominant males'.  Now, hunters basically take any cougar they can that doesn't have spotted cubs.  So, according to this guy's theories---in the past when hounds were allowed, the cougar population should've exploded because there weren't so many dominant males to kill young cats and there was so much more territory for young cats to claim.  If two or three youngsters can occupy the same amount of territory as one old-timer.  Plus, females were being passed on so more females to breed and kittens being born.  But back in the hound days, fewer cats were seen overall.  But there are more cats now while there are more older dominant cougars that are supposedly the cats that should be killing the young cats and lowering the population.  :dunno:

Offline Kain

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2013, 12:38:12 PM »
Shhhh you cant ask all these questions about methods that have worked across the whole continent for decades.  It is the newest latest and greatest 13 year peer reviewed study conducted by anti hunting universities that we should put all our faith in. 

Offline huntnphool

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2013, 12:46:53 PM »
You guys have over harvested to the breaking point, way to go.
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

Offline get one leakin

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2013, 05:58:31 PM »
Id like to take him up and show him a little about cougar densities...  What a complete idiot :bash:

Offline grundy53

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #14 on: August 19, 2013, 06:14:26 PM »
:bash:

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Offline steen

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #15 on: August 19, 2013, 06:59:16 PM »
This makes me want to barf!  First not everyone kills an adult male lion, second not every cougar vs. cougar encounter ends in a dead cougar ( most don't),  third hunting does in fact reduce the cougar population especially if dogs are used!!!!!!

Offline KFhunter

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #16 on: August 19, 2013, 07:03:43 PM »
I couldn't believe they closed 105 for the second half of the season last year - pissed me off.

Offline Kain

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #17 on: August 19, 2013, 07:16:21 PM »
I couldn't believe they closed 105 for the second half of the season last year - pissed me off.

Well they had to close down some units or the whole new system would have been seen as a big waste of time.  Which of course it is. 

Offline KFhunter

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2013, 07:17:45 PM »
I couldn't believe they closed 105 for the second half of the season last year - pissed me off.

Well they had to close down some units or the whole new system would have been seen as a big waste of time.  Which of course it is.

exactly the impression I had  :bash:

So I had to go across the river and hunt 101



Stupid crap like this pisses me off to no end.   NE WA has so dammned many Cougars I'm hitting em with my car.

Offline Kain

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2013, 07:29:23 PM »
I couldn't believe they closed 105 for the second half of the season last year - pissed me off.

Well they had to close down some units or the whole new system would have been seen as a big waste of time.  Which of course it is.

exactly the impression I had  :bash:

So I had to go across the river and hunt 101



Stupid crap like this pisses me off to no end.   NE WA has so dammned many Cougars I'm hitting em with my car.

Prior to them to making a bunch of ridiculous changes in 2008 we had a season that ran from August to March with two tags.  Average harvest, including the pilot program, was 200 cats per year.  WELL below their current harvest guidelines.   The vast majority of cats are taken during general deer and elk seasons.  Extending the season year round would result in very few additional kills.  They know all of this but refuse to extend the season or allow additional tags. 

Then they claim it is science based strategies. 

Oh well, very few hunters were vocal enough to get anything done about it and now they are taking this same garbage to wolf management. 

Offline CAMPMEAT

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2013, 07:36:56 PM »
Olympia is the most POT smokin' city of Washington State, doncha know !!

That answers a lot right there.
I couldn't care less about what anybody says..............

Offline snowpack

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2013, 07:40:20 PM »
exactly the impression I had  :bash:

So I had to go across the river and hunt 101



Stupid crap like this pisses me off to no end.   NE WA has so dammned many Cougars I'm hitting em with my car.
I was talking to lady that delivers newspapers over here and she sees lots of cougars and nearly hits a few each year with the car.  I guess when you're like the only vehicle cruising the roads from about 2am to 5 am you get to see lots critters.  A few years back it was rare to just see even one cat during the year along the paper route. 

Offline huntnphool

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2013, 08:00:08 PM »
The only result this is going to have is cats shot and left. :bash:
The things that come to those who wait, may be the things left by those who got there first!

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2013, 08:19:51 PM »
exactly the impression I had  :bash:

So I had to go across the river and hunt 101



Stupid crap like this pisses me off to no end.   NE WA has so dammned many Cougars I'm hitting em with my car.
I was talking to lady that delivers newspapers over here and she sees lots of cougars and nearly hits a few each year with the car.  I guess when you're like the only vehicle cruising the roads from about 2am to 5 am you get to see lots critters.  A few years back it was rare to just see even one cat during the year along the paper route.

ayup

I see em night all the time, usually coming up out of someone's back yard or out of a small neighborhood.

(especially the russian communities  :devil: :chuckle: )

Offline Harborhunter

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2013, 10:48:46 PM »
Their management plan is an absolute joke.  There is no reason why there should be harvest guidelines in my opinion, and i don't see why bear and cougar can't start at the same time...Or cougar season could go year round for that matter.  I doubt it would effect the population that much.  Maybe more people would buy cougar tags, which would make the department more money.  And we all know they like to make money. 

Offline mulehunter

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #25 on: August 21, 2013, 12:56:14 PM »
I gave up.  I am Glad to sent my hound over to MT to chase lions all the times!!  Go Blackberry!

WDFW.  :pee:

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #26 on: August 21, 2013, 01:48:08 PM »
 :yeah:

Offline bearpaw

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #27 on: August 21, 2013, 02:13:59 PM »
If hunters do not unite to oppose this and similar moves by WDFW there will be no hunting left, anyone can see the end goal of this planned study from the beginning, end hunting.  :twocents:
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Offline buckfvr

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #28 on: August 21, 2013, 02:31:51 PM »
Seems as though WDFW is running for the end zone...............we, the apprx 4%, are of no consideration to wdfw. 

I agree......going to be stuff left in the woods to rot......cats, bears, wolves........doesnt have to be this way, but we are in the way of their desired outcome......move over hunters, you are about to be replaced and obsolete.

Offline Kain

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #29 on: August 21, 2013, 03:03:24 PM »
Unfortunately there is already HUNDREDS of cats being left to rot in the woods.  They are just being killed by other cougars. 

Around 750 new kittens survive their first year in WA.  Since populations are at, or over, carrying capacity population are staying pretty stable in undeveloped areas.  That means that for every new cat that enters the population one dies.  750+ cats being killed and hunters are taking around 150 of them.  If hunters were allowed to harvest up to 10% of the population it would not have any impact on total population or age structures.  WDFW know all this but is pandering to the predator lovers. 

Totally backwards thinking and a complete waste of a resource.  Like letting trees burn in forest fires instead of logging them.  It is also a financial drain on a cash strapped state.  Not only are they losing revenue, from cougar hunters and reduced ungulate opportunities, they are having to pay for more human/cougar conflict issues as cougars try to expand into developed areas.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2013, 03:09:58 PM by Kain »

Offline bearpaw

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #30 on: August 21, 2013, 06:03:48 PM »
Unfortunately there is already HUNDREDS of cats being left to rot in the woods.  They are just being killed by other cougars. 

Around 750 new kittens survive their first year in WA.  Since populations are at, or over, carrying capacity population are staying pretty stable in undeveloped areas.  That means that for every new cat that enters the population one dies.  750+ cats being killed and hunters are taking around 150 of them.  If hunters were allowed to harvest up to 10% of the population it would not have any impact on total population or age structures.  WDFW know all this but is pandering to the predator lovers. 

Totally backwards thinking and a complete waste of a resource.  Like letting trees burn in forest fires instead of logging them.  It is also a financial drain on a cash strapped state.  Not only are they losing revenue, from cougar hunters and reduced ungulate opportunities, they are having to pay for more human/cougar conflict issues as cougars try to expand into developed areas.

Excellent points that we need to drive home in commission meetings.  :tup:
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline buckfvr

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #31 on: August 21, 2013, 06:15:19 PM »
What would be the price tag for a 13 year study, all inclusive  ?  And who pays ?
Granted, they do their studies in order to promote their agenda with an outcome that supports it, but at what cost and to whom ?

Seems as though they take our money and put it to work against us.   :twocents:

Offline cougarbart

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Re: WDFW loves their new cougar management plan.
« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2013, 06:51:16 PM »
safari club funded the last study that started as enscapement study and after 3 years since what they wanted to happen didn't! it turned into a population study but the problem with that is cats travel so much they really don't know what the ceiling is and how much they travel! they honestly still don't know much about Washington cougars

 


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