Since Wolves

[wolfbait]

Taking away hunting tools such as hound hunting for cats and bears, plus the baiting of bears makes it hard to control these predators. Throw in the USFWS's 'Wild Dogs", protect them under the ESA and it pushes everything off the cliff.

[wolfbait]

I know of several ranchers who have never had any trouble with coyotes killing their calves until the wolves showed up. Anything but the wolves kill calves.

[AspenBud]

I know of several ranchers who have never had any trouble with coyotes killing their calves until the wolves showed up. Anything but the wolves kill calves.

However true that may or may not be, it is a fact that feral dogs have killed more livestock in this state than wolves in recent years. I believe it was even a hunter in/from Stevens county that killed the dogs that were mentioned earlier. 

But what they killed wasn't cattle so I guess that makes all the difference.

[Hi-Liter]

Heck I think you should be excited the wolves are here  , probably will have tags for them soon. Just another tax resource for the state IMO. It will be interesting to see the data collected on births of new fawns from does in the northern counties of our state. IMO wolves will waiting for does to give birth. last weekend I saw a small pelvis and leg bones (likely from a young deer) in area where deer would come down and drink water at a spring, probably wolves stocking young deer and killed it, who knows.

[wolfbait]

I know of several ranchers who have never had any trouble with coyotes killing their calves until the wolves showed up. Anything but the wolves kill calves.

However true that may or may not be, it is a fact that feral dogs have killed more livestock in this state than wolves in recent years. I believe it was even a hunter in/from Stevens county that killed the dogs that were mentioned earlier. 

But what they killed wasn't cattle so I guess that makes all the difference.

The difference in wolves and dogs is the death rate, we can shoot dogs and the problem goes away, an uncontrolled wolf population is a totally different story. Where I come from problem dogs aren't a problem for too long, whether they are after livestock or deer etc.. We have different rules in the country.

[KFhunter]

I know of several ranchers who have never had any trouble with coyotes killing their calves until the wolves showed up. Anything but the wolves kill calves.

However true that may or may not be, it is a fact that feral dogs have killed more livestock in this state than wolves in recent years. I believe it was even a hunter in/from Stevens county that killed the dogs that were mentioned earlier. 

But what they killed wasn't cattle so I guess that makes all the difference.

What is your solution to feral dogs? 

[AspenBud]

I know of several ranchers who have never had any trouble with coyotes killing their calves until the wolves showed up. Anything but the wolves kill calves.

However true that may or may not be, it is a fact that feral dogs have killed more livestock in this state than wolves in recent years. I believe it was even a hunter in/from Stevens county that killed the dogs that were mentioned earlier. 

But what they killed wasn't cattle so I guess that makes all the difference.

What is your solution to feral dogs?

Shoot them.

My point is I think it's reasonable to argue that an estimated coyote population of 50,000 in this state is far more destructive to wildlife and livestock as are feral dogs. The numbers arguably show that at the moment. Fawns die just as easily to coyotes and dogs and apparently llamas, goats, sheep, dogs, cats, etc do to. Attacks on people? Coyotes are at least equal if not ahead of wolves in that regard, that includes killing a couple kids, and with dogs, feral or otherwise, it's not even a contest.

Check this out...

http://www.farmandranchguide.com/news/livestock/coyotes-lead-the-pack-for-predator-related-livestock-losses/article_a9f8bf5a-6da9-571d-abf7-8576be1fc69b.html

More highlights...

"Coyotes may only weigh 35 to 50 pounds but their jaws can exert more than 300 pounds of bite pressure. In 2009, coyotes used those jaws to kill 2,500 sheep in the state of Montana and 12,100 lambs. Last year's total coyote-related kills cost Montana sheep ranchers over $1 million dollars in lost animals alone."

and...

"Coyotes have also killed full-sized cattle, calves and other domestic animals.

The most recent record for predator-related cattle losses came in 2005. In that year, nationwide statistics showed coyotes responsible for 51.1 percent of all cattle losses due to predators, excluding Alaska. In Montana, alone, coyotes killed 1,300 calves in 2005."



Does the wolf need to be an animal that livestock owners, pet owners, or people who feel threatened can shoot? Yes. Should there be a hunting season right now? Beats me, but I'm not convinced they're as or anymore destructive in this state than the aforementioned at the moment, and no, I'm not saying that won't change. When a hunting season is declared I will support it.

[AspenBud]

We have different rules in the country.

I doubt they're any different than when my Dad's friend rolled a dog owner's dogs off the bed of his pickup, dead, after he caught them attacking his horses or when a mob ran down the road I grew up on and attacked three boxer's that attacked and killed a goat. The sheriff had fun with that last one.

Nice try.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Coyotes are a plague but they don't make the news. They aren't big and don't run in packs. They do way more damage than wolves ever will. Hopefully wolves will bring the coyote population under control. One reason for the explosion in the coyote population was wolves being removed from the scene.

Coyotes don't just take down small animals either. I watched a coyote kill a two year old deer on the lake of my Alaska home town one spring.

A good friend took a great series of pictures of a coyote killing a Dall sheep yearling one spring in the Kluane Wildlife refuge in the Yukon. It was right at the visitor center there. What was weird was, the lamb just stood there and didn't try to escape as the coyote grabbed it by the throat. And there were numerous adult sheep standing around watching the whole thing and they didn't get excited in the least. When it was over, He got out of his car to take some closeups of the coyote feeding, and the coyote actually charged him and chased him back inside his car. Very aggressive actions for a coyote. I wish he'd have posted his pics on National Geographic or something similar because they were definitely worthy, albeit graphic pictures.

[turkeyfeather]

I have been following this thread for a couple days now. You have your head in the sand if you can't see the link between a declining ungulate population and at the same time a rise in wolf activity and sightings. I'm sorry but only a moron can't connect those dots.  Just my 

[WAcoyotehunter]

Lets see..In 2011 a pack of 5 wild dogs killed almost 100 animals, mostly livestock up around Deer Park, near Spokane. If you check the incident reports on wolves in Washington from 2005 to present you won't even come close to that number of wolf kills on domestics. (livestock, dogs, cats etc.)

That is one pack of 5 mutts.  In Tonasket, dogs killed 9 domestic sheep this year in one incident. That is more than wolves so far this year. I personally have seen 20 plus sheep mauled by roaming packs of dogs.
 

Before blowing a bunch of hot air and calling people "rats" maybe you "wolf haters" should actually read the wolf incident reports and try and educate yourself.

He's accused me of the same thing.  Don't take it too personally....

No one every brings up the idea that habitat loss might be hurting the elk/deer populations too.  Roads, weeds, loss of logging and fire, and higher populations of other predators (bears, coyotes and lions) all have an effect.  The wolf haters on here fail to see those as being SERIOUS contributing factors and are singulalarly (and simply) focused on wolves. 

[AspenBud]

I have been following this thread for a couple days now. You have your head in the sand if you can't see the link between a declining ungulate population and at the same time a rise in wolf activity and sightings. I'm sorry but only a moron can't connect those dots.  Just my 

I like connecting dots, not just one dot.

You have degrading habitat as the Sierra Club et al has successfully stopped clear cutting which is leading to old growth. I don't know about you, but I avoid that stuff when I hunt since it's an eco desert. This has occurred since Clinton came out to give the spotted owl a hand in the 1990's.

You have a trapping and hound hunting ban, the affects of which are now really starting to show themselves in the form of more predation by mountain lions, bear, bobcat, and so on. That ban was passed in the 1990's.

You have wolves that started popping up back in the 1990's. Wolfbait has even posted an article demonstrating that.

And you have an ever growing coyote population that requires a 365/24/7 season.

If you think the problem will be solved by adding wolves to the list of hunted animals you're wrong. Not that they shouldn't be on that list, but if ungulate numbers are down it's because of several problems, not one. Multiple dots.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

I have been following this thread for a couple days now. You have your head in the sand if you can't see the link between a declining ungulate population and at the same time a rise in wolf activity and sightings. I'm sorry but only a moron can't connect those dots.  Just my 

Only a moron takes two separate happenings and relates them as cause and effect, without taking a close look at all other causes and their effects.  When you make a judgement without having all the relevant information you can make horrible mistakes. Say a bank was robbed and you were in the area so were questioned and the cops decided to arrest you because you had a wallet full of 100 dollar bills.  While this might make you suspect, it doesn't make you guilty without other collaborating evidence.

[mountainman]

Moose Puts up Fierce Fight to Protect Her Baby from Wolves

Half dozen wolves, 1 moose calf...mid-morning nibble. Multiply this by 1/2 dz. calfs/day...in a good calfing area...30 days long..180 calfs +/-...couple that with say, the Colockum elk herd, already depleted and declining..add indians claiming the big bulls when they can. herd will be gone before you know it. great habitat up there. wolves hunt in groups, not like a single bear. Bears are also omnivirous. Add the adult elk killed throughout the year. mess in the making!!

[Sitka_Blacktail]

mountainman, nobody argues that wolves don't kill ungulates and their babies. It's what they were made to do. Ungulates counter that by having lots of babies. They were never meant to all live. You're just trying to stir up emotionalism which is no better than anti hunters posting pictures of hunters killing animals or animals stuck in traps.

But for your information, ADF&G has done studies and found that bears take out way more newborn animals than wolves do. If wolves were as bad as you guys like to say, this continent would have been barren of game when Europeans arrived from all the wolves. Instead, it was teaming with wildlife of all kinds.