Fresh Tracks TV Series Supports The Loss Of Big Game Hunting Opportunities

[Sitka_Blacktail]

idahohuntr 

I expect wolf supporters to hate Toby, but let me remind hunters, it's guys like Toby Bridges who first brought wolf impacts to the forefront of the media. Toby has been fighting for better wolf management longer than most people have known there were any impacts caused by wolves. Like him or not, he has been at the forefront of getting the wolf issue into the media which has resulted in getting better management. 

You think that anything Toby Bridges has done or said has changed the wolf reintroduction plan and implementation of the plan in any way? Give me a break.... All he has done is stir the pot. He hasn't done any of the cooking.

[bearpaw]

idahohuntr 

I expect wolf supporters to hate Toby, but let me remind hunters, it's guys like Toby Bridges who first brought wolf impacts to the forefront of the media. Toby has been fighting for better wolf management longer than most people have known there were any impacts caused by wolves. Like him or not, he has been at the forefront of getting the wolf issue into the media which has resulted in getting better management. 

You think that anything Toby Bridges has done or said has changed the wolf reintroduction plan and implementation of the plan in any way? Give me a break.... All he has done is stir the pot. He hasn't done any of the cooking.

Yes definitely, Toby Bridges, George Dovel, Steve Alder, and numerous other outspoken hunting activists brought the wolf issue to the public view before most hunters knew wolf impacts were an issue. Their voices helped prompt sporting groups and sporting magazines to get on board. Like it or not these guys helped start the movement. 

[bearpaw]

Sitka of course hunters had little or no impact on wolf plans, these biased wolf plans were forced in by the wolf lovers and took little or no input from hunters, ranchers, or local citizens into consideration.

WDFW is a perfect example, they stacked the wolf working group with wolf lovers and they stacked the peer review the same way.

[idahohuntr]

idahohuntr 

I expect wolf supporters to hate Toby, but let me remind hunters, it's guys like Toby Bridges who first brought wolf impacts to the forefront of the media. Toby has been fighting for better wolf management longer than most people have known there were any impacts caused by wolves. Like him or not, he has been at the forefront of getting the wolf issue into the media which has resulted in getting better management. 

Yep, wolf supporters hate Toby and they hate Randy...I'm sure Randy has received far more death threats from the enviro crazies for airing a successful wolf hunt on TV though.  But as usual you are distracting from my real point: If Toby and Randy disagree about a wildlife management/hunting issue, and you are a public land DIY hunter...you will have no better company than Randy Newberg.  End of Discussion.

These other people you mention (Adler, Dovel etc.) have done NOTHING but help raise money for Defenders of Wildlife.  They are way more harmful than any good they do...they peddle distortions and conspiracies and most people see the joke that these clowns are and certainly nobody takes them seriously...certainly not legislators, commissioners or anyone else with any real ability to influence wolf management. 

[Elkaholic daWg]

 

[bearpaw]

Yep, wolf supporters hate Toby and they hate Randy...I'm sure Randy has received far more death threats from the enviro crazies for airing a successful wolf hunt on TV though.  But as usual you are distracting from my real point: If Toby and Randy disagree about a wildlife management/hunting issue, and you are a public land DIY hunter...you will have no better company than Randy Newberg.  End of Discussion.

If Randy is associated with some of those front groups in MT that support more wilderness or wolves and the removal of ranching from the landscape, then he 's probably not so loved in local areas of Montana or Idaho where they ranch for a living and have to live with wolves. It seems that he publicly opposed MOGA, maybe not a lot of love there either. 

These other people you mention (Adler, Dovel etc.) have done NOTHING but help raise money for Defenders of Wildlife.  They are way more harmful than any good they do...they peddle distortions and conspiracies and most people see the joke that these clowns are and certainly nobody takes them seriously...certainly not legislators, commissioners or anyone else with any real ability to influence wolf management.

Was that a joke, I hope so!
I bet you didn't know Dovel is retired but used to work for IDFG. Alder's group is one of the most popular sporting groups in Idaho with active chapters around the state. How big is your group? Sitka Blacktail, Aspenbud, JLS, Idahohntr? You guys would all be laughed right out of Idaho! OH, I almost forgot, you live in WA and you call yourself Idahohntr!

just sayin.... 

[Sitka_Blacktail]

OH, I almost forgot, you live in WA and you call yourself Idahohntr!

just sayin.... 

And you call yourself bearpaw.  Do you have hairy knuckles and long sharp nails?     

[bearpaw]

OH, I almost forgot, you live in WA and you call yourself Idahohntr!

just sayin.... 

And you call yourself bearpaw.  Do you have hairy knuckles and long sharp nails?     

  

[Randy Newberg]

Yes definitely, Toby Bridges, George Dovel, Steve Alder, and numerous other outspoken hunting activists brought the wolf issue to the public view before most hunters knew wolf impacts were an issue. Their voices helped prompt sporting groups and sporting magazines to get on board. Like it or not these guys helped start the movement. 

Might want to check with Toby as to when he moved to Montana and compare that to when the wolf issue started.  There is a pretty big gap of years on that one.

Toby moved here many years after other hunters had already taken up the cause of gaining state control over wolves.  When Toby first moved here, his initial splash in the pond was to shorten the generous Montana archery seasons to make room for a separate muzzleloader season.  Toby got his teeth handed to him, left wearing a 4XL ass hat, and disappeared off the radar screen for a few years.

To say Toby is responsible for getting hunters to the wolf issue, or "helped start the movement," is like believing that Al Gore really did invent the internet.  Or, that Barack Obama is a fiscal conservative.  Toby was a "Johnny Come Lately" to the wolf issue.  Toby and his ranting are considered laughing stock for most anyone who has been involved in the topic since the beginning, as many of us have been.

Toby is the same guy who said the delisting legislation, known as the Simpson-Tester rider, would be doom for delisting in all the other states.  He and his fringe-operator pals at SFW/BGF went on a hatchet mission to try discredit SCI, NRA, B&C, and CSF for their support of the Simpson-Tester rider.  As is almost always the case, Toby's opinions and positions on wolves put him on the losing side of the equation. The rider passed and Montana and Idaho got delisting and Wyoming got language that protected the court decisions they had obtained in their efforts to defend their state wolf plan.

To show what little Toby knows about the issue, look at Toby's claim that the Simpson-Tester rider would sink delisting in all other states.  Since the Simpson-Tester bill passed in April, 2011, here is what happened; MN/WI/MI got state control in December 2011; Wyoming got state control in October 2012; and now, the USFWS has petitioned to delist the gray wolf in the entire lower 48 states.

So, in spite of Toby's dire warnings that no other states would ever gain delisted status, the USFWS is pushing forward with delisting of gray wolves in every state.  Yet, some people feel Toby is an expert on wolf delisting and wolf management issues.  That is like saying Bernie Madoff would make a good financial trustee.

For all the weeping, whining, and gnashing of teeth that Toby put out for public consumption on wolf delisting, he has been wrong on every single warning he issued.  Every one.

Given that abysmal track record of prognostication, his lack of involvement in anything related to wolf delisting and state management control of wolves, and his "Johnny Come Lately" status to the wolf issue, Toby is laughed out of the room by people in the know on wolf delisting and state wolf management.  Those people laughing are the one who did the heavy lifting for almost two decades on the wolf issue.

If Randy is associated with some of those front groups in MT that support more wilderness or wolves and the removal of ranching from the landscape, then he 's probably not so loved in local areas of Montana or Idaho where they ranch for a living and have to live with wolves.

Anyone who knows me and my relationships with ag producers knows I am most often one of their advocates within the hunting community.  In my CPA firm, I have a lot of ag producers who are clients.  I meet regularly with members of the Montana Stock Growers Association to work on ways that hunters and ag producers can be allies.  I am often criticized for being "Too landowner friendly" for some of the groups involved in the politics.

It seems that he publicly opposed MOGA, maybe not a lot of love there either. 

I'll correct that for you -

MOGA publicly opposed Randy......... and his appointment to the RMEF Board of Directors when the Executive Director and one MOGA Board Member sent out emails and made phone calls on behalf of MOGA and without any other MOGA Board Members knowing of this effort.  To quote a MOGA Board member who Randy knows very well, and who called Randy after the debacle, "We stepped on our di&^s when we opposed Randy's appointment to the RMEF Board of Directors.

My reason for re-surfacing this thread was to point out that the piece of legislation that Toby Bridges claimed would cause "The Loss of Big Game Hunting Opportunities" is supported by a trade industry whose members make their living via hunting, MOGA.  It shows how askew with reality Toby's ranting can be.  There are very few hunting and fishing groups in Montana that are not supporting the bill, including the Montana Outfitters and Guides Association.

Point is, using Toby for a source on anything comes with considerable risk.  An industry trade association that you belong to, MOGA, has come out in favor of the bill Toby says will result in loss of big game hunting opportunities.  If that was the case, I am pretty sure MOGA would not support the bill, and I would not support it.

If people want to cite Toby Bridges as a source of information related to anything in the hunting arena, that is fine.  When relying on Toby's blogs and opinions as some sort of factual record, doing so comes with a high level of risk.  Just ask anyone who believed Toby's predictions on the future of wolf delisting.  This thread is another example.

Best of luck to all of you this year.

[Elkaholic daWg]

What do you think of "backcountry hunters and anglers" Mr Newberg?(oops!)  I have no desire to get in a pissin match over you or Toby......BH&A were my red herring in BP's original post since they are a greenie front group.

[bearpaw]

Might want to check with Toby as to when he moved to Montana and compare that to when the wolf issue started.  There is a pretty big gap of years on that one.

No, I don't know when Toby moved to Montana, but you didn't specify when either, and to be quite honest I have been posting his topics on this forum for many years, so it's not like he moved to MT in the last few years. Toby has been very outspoken regarding wolves in MT and like it or not that has brought more attention to the issue. 

Dovel and Alder are long time residents of Idaho, and Idahohntr tried to discredit them as well when in fact they have a very large following, so that was very misleading of Idahohntr.

What do you think of "backcountry hunters and anglers" Mr Newberg?(oops!)  I have no desire to get in a pissin match over you or Toby......BH&A were my red herring in BP's original post since they are a greenie front group.

I don't want to be in the middle of their pissin match either, however I sorta ended up there.   

Backcountry Hunters is precisely one of the issues that immediately raised a red flag for me too, I looked at Randy's web site and found no mention of BHA on his "Partners" page. Toby claims they are a sponsor.

Backcountry Hunters and Anglers is a major sponsor of the show.

On Your Own Partners page: http://onyourownadventures.com/partners.php

So I'm left wondering if BHA is one of Randy's sponsors, or if they used to be a sponsor, or what the status of Randy and BHA might be? If BHA is or was a sponsor, I wonder if Randy knows where the money comes from for sponsoring his show and if so perhaps he has distanced himself?

Some info I found regarding Backcountry Hunters & Anglers that does raise questions:

BHA: http://www.backcountryhunters.org/

Green Decoys: http://www.greendecoys.com/decoys/backcountry-hunters-and-anglers/

At a Glance
Environmentalist activism is the name of the game at BHA, and hunters and anglers are just the camouflage. BHA has received hundreds of thousands of dollars from environmentalist groups, and BHA executive director Land Tawney has a history of liberal election activism.

Funding
When looking at BHA’s funding sources, it’s easy to forget they have anything to do with hunting and fishing at all. All of its primary donors have extensive ties to environmental activist organizations.

The largest donor is the Western Conservation Foundation, which gave $278,423 to BHA in 2011 and 2012 alone. WCF has given handsomely over the years to notorious environmentalists and animal rights activists, including the Natural Resources Defense Council, the Audubon Society, Earthjustice (the self-proclaimed “law firm of the environment”), and Climate Solutions, a major proponent of “global warming.” It has also contributed large sums to the Tides Center, funder of all things leftist. It’s hard to imagine Western Conservation Foundation would donate over a quarter of a million dollars to Backcountry Hunters and Anglers if it wasn’t an organization that shared those same ideological beliefs.

[WAcoyotehunter]

BHA is a good group.  Not at all anti hunting.  Just because we don't want a damn road up every drainage doesn't make a group "anti".  Maybe you should check out a meeting or meet some folks that are  part of the group before you make a decision. 

As a whole, BHA members and leadership are the hardest hunting people I know.  A hell of lot better in the woods than most folks.

[bearpaw]

BHA is a good group.  Not at all anti hunting.  Just because we don't want a damn road up every drainage doesn't make a group "anti".  Maybe you should check out a meeting or meet some folks that are  part of the group before you make a decision. 

As a whole, BHA members and leadership are the hardest hunting people I know.  A hell of lot better in the woods than most folks.

I'm not doubting the membership, I'm sure there are plenty of hard core hunters, I'm wondering about the funding sources and how the group might be used by greenie orgs to further their goals? Do you know about the questions raised on green decoys website?

[WAcoyotehunter]

No, I don't.  I do know BHA is doing good things for hunters and sportsmen with whatever money they can gather.  If you are talking about a Pew Foundation grant, you might take a close look at some of the other recipients of Pew money... Ducks Unlimited is one that come to mind first.

 

[Elkaholic daWg]

BHA is a good group.  Not at all anti hunting.  Just because we don't want a damn road up every drainage doesn't make a group "anti".  Maybe you should check out a meeting or meet some folks that are  part of the group before you make a decision. 

As a whole, BHA members and leadership are the hardest hunting people I know.  A hell of lot better in the woods than most folks.

They would be fine if I were a self centered hunter ONLY!