Expandables...

[alchemyforge]

Hey guys.  I've been wondering why WDFW says "no" to expandable broadheads.  Is there a "fair chase" reason? Do expandables have a reputation for -not- expanding, leaving a hole about the size of a field point? I've never used them, so I don't know how effective they are and I'm not advocating for or against them.

[bowhuntin]

I think the first generation expandables had issues of them not expanding, I don't think the newer expandables have this issue anymore though I have never bought any and tried them out. I have no idea why the WDFW does not allow them during the seasons, maybe it has to do with them not being very ethical if they don't expand  . They sell them at cabelas and sportsmans warehouse, which i find to be odd since they are illegal in this state.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

The reason expandables are not legal in Washington is due to the regulation against barbed broadheads. A poorly hit animal can and will usually survive but if the arrow is barbed it will stay in and cause the animal to suffer a long and agonizing death. Arrows fall out or are pulled out (I have seen them do it) If they stay in they fester and get infected. A lot of bowhunters take shots they should not take thinking that they can hit a target at that distance, but when an animal hears a bow release they move and that results in poor hits. Most will result in a minor injury that is not life threatening. (sharp broadheads cut cleanly) I am not advocating taking shots you shouldn't just stating the facts.

[alchemyforge]

That makes perfect sense.... hadn't thought of them as barbed, but you're right, they really wouldn't pull or fall out very easily.


Thanks

[Hoytstaffshooter83]

Maybe they should outlaw the hunters thats dont know thier own abilities....... The main issue with the new ones and i dont see it as a issue personally is they dont always open up fully at close range, My buddy back east shot a doe at 18yrds and the NAP only opened like 1/2 way...... it still put one hell of a hurtin on her and she went all of 30yrds...........

[bowsandhose]

Maybe they should outlaw the hunters thats dont know thier own abilities....... 

maybe WA should require bow hunters Ed like some of the other states 

[Intruder]

I'm pretty new to bowhunting and I've never used expandables but from what I've been told by folks I trust, expandables don't perform as well on bigger game.  Supposedly they fly great, one of the major reasons guys like them, but may not penetrated due to structural failures.  Take that with a grain of salt.... I have no first hand experience.  It seems plausible though just based on it's something mechanical vs. something solid.... mechanical by it's very nature has to have more potential points of failure.

Also, never seen any animal hit properly with a good broadhead survive.  As such I'm not sure how these would really offer an advantage.   

[Hoytstaffshooter83]

Maybe they should outlaw the hunters thats dont know thier own abilities....... 

maybe WA should require bow hunters Ed like some of the other states 

I dont think that woukld do much........ we have hunter ed and that doesnt stop idiots from going in the woods when they never should.........

[bowsandhose]

at least you would have to put a little effort into bow hunting. not just borrow a bow  and start flinging arrows. 

[Bscman]

I'm pretty new to bowhunting and I've never used expandables but from what I've been told by folks I trust, expandables don't perform as well on bigger game.  Supposedly they fly great, one of the major reasons guys like them, but may not penetrated due to structural failures.  Take that with a grain of salt.... I have no first hand experience.  It seems plausible though just based on it's something mechanical vs. something solid.... mechanical by it's very nature has to have more potential points of failure.

+1
Also, a lot of energy is dumped to get them to open as well.
With todys modern, "excessive power" bows this isn't much of an issue...but drop the poundage to 45lbs like many women/kids shoot, or throw in a traditional bow, and you've got penetration problems....especially on angled shots.

For the most part, expandables are only around becuase many people are too lazy to properly tune their bow...They really have no benefit other than they may fly a bit better than fixed blades on an un-tuned bow....but some of the new expanding heads do have some massive cutting diameters.

The new expanding heads are much better than the early designs, but I still think WDFW has it right by banning them on big game. 

[brokenbone]

OK withthe barb in mind is the broad head designed to cut off a tearkey head with the blades that stick 3 in off the shaft also illegal?  i understand and agree with no expandables.  energy loss is a problem when it is a marginable shot.  if there was a count of all the animals shot in the state and how many of them were marginable or poor shots then it makes sense to eliminate one piece of the equipment that could screw up.  i would rather dump all my energy in to cutting a 1 1/8 in dia hole all the way threw the animal and not hoping  that the bh expands and i get good penetration.  my

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Gobbler Guillotine's are legal because if you look at the blades (back-side) they form a smooth unbroken line AWAY from the fletch, if the line moves TOWARD the fletch it is considered a barb.

[DeKuma]

Think you mean that the other way around, don't you?
Unbroken towards the fletch (away from point) is okay, but angled away from fletch (toward point) is illegal.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

I stand by my first statement AWAY FROM FLETCH, towards point is NOT barbed

[BULLBLASTER]

I stand by my first statement AWAY FROM FLETCH, towards point is NOT barbed

think about it... if the line goes back toward the point that makes a hook or barb at the back of the head. if it angles back to the fletch there is no hook or barb.

[DeKuma]

From the book:
It is
unlawful to hunt with a broadhead blade
unless the broadhead is unbarbed and
completely closed to the back end of the
blade or blades by a smooth, unbroken
surface starting at maximum blade width
forming a smooth line toward the feather
end of the shaft and such line does not
angle toward the point. Retractable styled
broadheads are illegal.

[EastWaViking]

I used expandables in Wyoming a few years ago, they fly great, but so do normal broadheads if you are tuned right. I used Rocket Steelheads and got my first  Wyo buck with one.  Even if they were legal in WA, I'd stick with Muzzy MX3's, one less thing to worry about not working.

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

Starting at Maximum blade width, I am sorry I was referring to from the shaft, look at a G.G. and you can see what I meant. I should have paid more attention to the wording.

[GoldTip]

I simply see no reason to shoot expandables.  Just one more mechanical piece of equipment that can fail.  Some people have used them with very good results on all sizes of game, in fact I read an article recently by Chuck Adams stating he used some form of Mechanical broadhead on all five animals he killed the previous year, and I think we can rest assured old Chuck has got enough experience with game and archery to know what he should or shouldn't use.  For me however, a well tuned bow and good form and lots of practice makes using mechanicals simply an exercise I don't need.   Mechanicals in my book are predominantly used by people who don't take the time needed to get consistent broadhead flight with a fixed blade broadhead.  They simply are not something I would risk an animals life on when using a fixed blade takes the "opening up" failure out of the question.

[Intruder]

I simply see no reason to shoot expandables.  Just one more mechanical piece of equipment that can fail.  Some people have used them with very good results on all sizes of game, in fact I read an article recently by Chuck Adams stating he used some form of Mechanical broadhead on all five animals he killed the previous year, and I think we can rest assured old Chuck has got enough experience with game and archery to know what he should or shouldn't use.  For me however, a well tuned bow and good form and lots of practice makes using mechanicals simply an exercise I don't need.   Mechanicals in my book are predominantly used by people who don't take the time needed to get consistent broadhead flight with a fixed blade broadhead.  They simply are not something I would risk an animals life on when using a fixed blade takes the "opening up" failure out of the question.

well said!

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

I agree, I was only trying to clarify the reg. (although I confused it a bit) I am a Trad Archer and use Grizzly's or Razorheads myself and practice with them year-round.