Skoke fish dump made the news

[stw]

Ya the white man gets a ticket for barbed hook
How do the game warden sleep at night traders
Like the one guy saw that man get a ticket for not tagging his
elk or deer when he walk up on it right away.  Bull crap

[HntnFsh]

Our own WDFW practices this by stripping thousands of salmon and steelhead a year of eggs and dumping them back into the rivers

Doesnt even compare to the Skoke fiasco. The places where WDFW does this is where the extra nutrients are needed. And you wont find a spot that looks anything like this.

[HntnFsh]

There are many hits and misses being perpetrated here. I have a bit more insight on this than most and while I agree that tribes are often gluttonous, wasteful, and irresponsible with their game and fish harvest practices this is one time where they are only marginally guilty.  I am not defending here just trying to point out some cogent details.

First point - not familiar with this chum run but most coastal runs are below food quality when they are available to be caught in the rivers.  The eggs of the chum are what have value, the flesh is often worthless. Currently there is a premium on any fish protein so these fish had value but only after the buyer/market was developed. It is not something that is easy or quick to accomplish.  This waste of chum flesh has been an issue for years and is better now than in past years when it was cheaper for fish processors to dump the fish after stripping roe and take a state fine than it was to process the flesh.

Second point - the story was very weak on facts, sources, and information.

Third point - there us a high likelihood that there would not be enough spawning habitat to handle these fish if they were allowed to live and spawn naturally. Also it sounds like these were hatchery origin fish. If they were in a river system with kings and coho they could also potentially disrupt those species spawning areas and hurt future wild production. I have also observed thousands of chum suffocating in streams when runs are stronger than can be supported by the habitat.   

Forth point - many riparian and coastal areas are suffering from loss of nutrients after salmon carcasses are no longer available in those areas. This composting is something similar to what has happened elsewhere where carcasses are taken up rivers and streams and littered on the beaches to return these nutrients.

I have other points but these should be enough to stimulate dome conversation?

Now for the rebuttals and criticism. I have some work to do so will check back on that at bedtime.

Fourth point argument.
There is a big problem with lack of oxygen in Hoods canal. Decaying fish makes the problem worse. I know of people that are very active in the health of Hood Canal. They advocate not even using Alaska fish fertilizer for shrimping due to its effect on the oxygen level. Not when 1 person does it. But when 1000s do. We cant even fish for bottom fish in the canal anymore because of this problem. So this is more of a detriment to the canal than a plus.

[boneaddict]

I have to go back and dig through boxes of pics, but I have several photos of piles and I have one of a boat filled with fish.  It sat in the sun all day while they slept of a big drunk (saw it with own eyes, so not profiling).  Everything was lost.   Tide came in and the boat was so heavy it sank.......

[mallard79]

Also when WDFW does it they are actually milking the mature eggs and fertilizing them and using them in the hatcheries. They are not cutting the eggs out and selling them.

[Practical Approach]

 :beatdeadhorse:Blah Blah Blah

[PolarBear]

I have to go back and dig through boxes of pics, but I have several photos of piles and I have one of a boat filled with fish.  It sat in the sun all day while they slept of a big drunk (saw it with own eyes, so not profiling).  Everything was lost.   Tide came in and the boat was so heavy it sank.......

My cousin rescued 2 Squaxins right in front of my Mom and Dad's house on Totten one morning at about 3:30.  They had an 18' boat that was so overloaded with chums that when the tided changed and the wind picked up it swamped the boat capsizing it.  Luckily for them my cousin was getting ready for work an happened to hear them calling for help.  He jumped in his Dad's oyster boat, ran out and pulled them out of the freezing water.  One was clinging to the boat and another barely holing on to a buoy.  Both guys were so drunk and cold that they couldn't speak or even help them selves to get into the boat.  The tribe did throw a huge party thanking my cousin and his wife though.  Plenty of poached salmon and elk for everyone! 

[j_h_nimrod]

There are many hits and misses being perpetrated here. I have a bit more insight on this than most and while I agree that tribes are often gluttonous, wasteful, and irresponsible with their game and fish harvest practices this is one time where they are only marginally guilty.  I am not defending here just trying to point out some cogent details.

First point - not familiar with this chum run but most coastal runs are below food quality when they are available to be caught in the rivers.  The eggs of the chum are what have value, the flesh is often worthless. Currently there is a premium on any fish protein so these fish had value but only after the buyer/market was developed. It is not something that is easy or quick to accomplish.  This waste of chum flesh has been an issue for years and is better now than in past years when it was cheaper for fish processors to dump the fish after stripping roe and take a state fine than it was to process the flesh.

Second point - the story was very weak on facts, sources, and information.

Third point - there us a high likelihood that there would not be enough spawning habitat to handle these fish if they were allowed to live and spawn naturally. Also it sounds like these were hatchery origin fish. If they were in a river system with kings and coho they could also potentially disrupt those species spawning areas and hurt future wild production. I have also observed thousands of chum suffocating in streams when runs are stronger than can be supported by the habitat.   

Forth point - many riparian and coastal areas are suffering from loss of nutrients after salmon carcasses are no longer available in those areas. This composting is something similar to what has happened elsewhere where carcasses are taken up rivers and streams and littered on the beaches to return these nutrients.

I have other points but these should be enough to stimulate dome conversation?

Now for the rebuttals and criticism. I have some work to do so will check back on that at bedtime.

Fourth point argument.
There is a big problem with lack of oxygen in Hoods canal. Decaying fish makes the problem worse. I know of people that are very active in the health of Hood Canal. They advocate not even using Alaska fish fertilizer for shrimping due to its effect on the oxygen level. Not when 1 person does it. But when 1000s do. We cant even fish for bottom fish in the canal anymore because of this problem. So this is more of a detriment to the canal than a plus.

I can see that, I was not familiar with the area they were dumped or the problems with the waterway. Point withdrawn.

In the beginning I should have qualified that while I have insight on chum fisheries and problems associated with them and not this specific incidence.

[singleshot12]

I have to go back and dig through boxes of pics, but I have several photos of piles and I have one of a boat filled with fish.  It sat in the sun all day while they slept of a big drunk (saw it with own eyes, so not profiling).  Everything was lost.   Tide came in and the boat was so heavy it sank.......

My cousin rescued 2 Squaxins right in front of my Mom and Dad's house on Totten one morning at about 3:30.  They had an 18' boat that was so overloaded with chums that when the tided changed and the wind picked up it swamped the boat capsizing it.  Luckily for them my cousin was getting ready for work an happened to hear them calling for help.  He jumped in his Dad's oyster boat, ran out and pulled them out of the freezing water.  One was clinging to the boat and another barely holing on to a buoy.  Both guys were so drunk and cold that they couldn't speak or even help them selves to get into the boat.  The tribe did throw a huge party thanking my cousin and his wife though.  Plenty of poached salmon and elk for everyone!

I think in that case your cousin should of just let karma take it's course. There's no excuse for the greed and waste of our natural resources. Our officials need to be more responsible and start with ending the export market for fish eggs. It amazes me what we let happen.

[dscubame]

There are many hits and misses being perpetrated here. I have a bit more insight on this than most and while I agree that tribes are often gluttonous, wasteful, and irresponsible with their game and fish harvest practices this is one time where they are only marginally guilty.  I am not defending here just trying to point out some cogent details.

First point - not familiar with this chum run but most coastal runs are below food quality when they are available to be caught in the rivers.  The eggs of the chum are what have value, the flesh is often worthless. Currently there is a premium on any fish protein so these fish had value but only after the buyer/market was developed. It is not something that is easy or quick to accomplish.  This waste of chum flesh has been an issue for years and is better now than in past years when it was cheaper for fish processors to dump the fish after stripping roe and take a state fine than it was to process the flesh.

Second point - the story was very weak on facts, sources, and information.

Third point - there us a high likelihood that there would not be enough spawning habitat to handle these fish if they were allowed to live and spawn naturally. Also it sounds like these were hatchery origin fish. If they were in a river system with kings and coho they could also potentially disrupt those species spawning areas and hurt future wild production. I have also observed thousands of chum suffocating in streams when runs are stronger than can be supported by the habitat.   

Forth point - many riparian and coastal areas are suffering from loss of nutrients after salmon carcasses are no longer available in those areas. This composting is something similar to what has happened elsewhere where carcasses are taken up rivers and streams and littered on the beaches to return these nutrients.

I have other points but these should be enough to stimulate dome conversation?

Now for the rebuttals and criticism. I have some work to do so will check back on that at bedtime.

    yep

[j_h_nimrod]

I have to go back and dig through boxes of pics, but I have several photos of piles and I have one of a boat filled with fish.  It sat in the sun all day while they slept of a big drunk (saw it with own eyes, so not profiling).  Everything was lost.   Tide came in and the boat was so heavy it sank.......

My cousin rescued 2 Squaxins right in front of my Mom and Dad's house on Totten one morning at about 3:30.  They had an 18' boat that was so overloaded with chums that when the tided changed and the wind picked up it swamped the boat capsizing it.  Luckily for them my cousin was getting ready for work an happened to hear them calling for help.  He jumped in his Dad's oyster boat, ran out and pulled them out of the freezing water.  One was clinging to the boat and another barely holing on to a buoy.  Both guys were so drunk and cold that they couldn't speak or even help them selves to get into the boat.  The tribe did throw a huge party thanking my cousin and his wife though.  Plenty of poached salmon and elk for everyone!

I think in that case your cousin should of just let karma take it's course. There's no excuse for the greed and waste of our natural resources. Our officials need to be more responsible and start with ending the export market for fish eggs. It amazes me what we let happen.

The problem with that thinking is that chum are fairly worthless as a food fish. The roe is where they have value unless you are on the Yukon River. Chum are arguably the most valuable salmon in terms of dollars, all attributable to their eggs. They are also easy to read in a hatchery environment which makes them more valuable. Chum are one of the main fish funding Alaskan hatcheries because of their ease of rearing in a hatchery environment and the value of the eggs.

[singleshot12]

I have to go back and dig through boxes of pics, but I have several photos of piles and I have one of a boat filled with fish.  It sat in the sun all day while they slept of a big drunk (saw it with own eyes, so not profiling).  Everything was lost.   Tide came in and the boat was so heavy it sank.......

My cousin rescued 2 Squaxins right in front of my Mom and Dad's house on Totten one morning at about 3:30.  They had an 18' boat that was so overloaded with chums that when the tided changed and the wind picked up it swamped the boat capsizing it.  Luckily for them my cousin was getting ready for work an happened to hear them calling for help.  He jumped in his Dad's oyster boat, ran out and pulled them out of the freezing water.  One was clinging to the boat and another barely holing on to a buoy.  Both guys were so drunk and cold that they couldn't speak or even help them selves to get into the boat.  The tribe did throw a huge party thanking my cousin and his wife though.  Plenty of poached salmon and elk for everyone!

I think in that case your cousin should of just let karma take it's course. There's no excuse for the greed and waste of our natural resources. Our officials need to be more responsible and start with ending the export market for fish eggs. It amazes me what we let happen.

The problem with that thinking is that chum are fairly worthless as a food fish. The roe is where they have value unless you are on the Yukon River. Chum are arguably the most valuable salmon in terms of dollars, all attributable to their eggs. They are also easy to read in a hatchery environment which makes them more valuable. Chum are one of the main fish funding Alaskan hatcheries because of their ease of rearing in a hatchery environment and the value of the eggs.

They may be worthless food fish when caught in the river. But I bet the majority(chromers) are caught in the bays(salt). I know that was the case with the Skagit and Stilly chums anyways and they were wiped out to near extinction with no sport season for several years now.
If they eggs were taken for hatcheries that is fine,but what led to greed and their demise is the export caviar market.

[huntnnw]

Our own WDFW practices this by stripping thousands of salmon and steelhead a year of eggs and dumping them back into the rivers

Doesnt even compare to the Skoke fiasco. The places where WDFW does this is where the extra nutrients are needed. And you wont find a spot that looks anything like this.

wrong..not even close to being used as fertilizer...my buddy works as a fish tech and I get to hear all about salmon and steelhead getting their tails chopped off and dumped into the rivers

[Houndhunter]

The best tasting salmon (chum) i ever smoked was out of that region, to say the "flesh" is worthless makes you look stupid as well with the tribes . Skokes are one of the laziest tribes i've seen in my time in WA

[ICEMAN]

"'Worthless" is a subjective term. Instead of wasting the fish, they could probably give them away to folks who would have no problem eating them.

Didn't the tribes used to eat whale? Now they sacrifice the run for their eggs, and disrespect the fishery. If I were a tribal member, I would be totally embarrassed.