An 'ex-WA elk hunter' speaks

[bobcat]

All I can say is some of you are a little on the extreme side with your paranoia.

Yes this state does have it's issues, mainly due to an excessive human population and on top of that we have the two separate groups (Washington State and the Indian tribes) taking from the same resource, but with totally different seasons and limits.

But I don't believe there's any organized effort to eliminate hunting in this state as some of you seem to think.

[pianoman9701]

All I can say is some of you are a little on the extreme side with your paranoia.

Yes this state does have it's issues, mainly due to an excessive human population and on top of that we have the two separate groups (Washington State and the Indian tribes) taking from the same resource, but with totally different seasons and limits.

But I don't believe there's any organized effort to eliminate hunting in this state as some of you seem to think.

You may be right that there's no organized effort (I'm not sure). However, if their actions produce the same result, we're still screwed as hunters.

[huntrights]

Other states such as Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming seem to maintain healthy elk herds (excluding wolf issues) while also creating reasonable chances of success to elk hunters.  Why are many Washington elk hunters going to other states to hunt elk?

No need for me to read further than that. You're way off base if you're trying to compare Washington with Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming.

Those states have a much lower human population, way more public land, and a whole lot more wildlife habitat that supports wildlife.

Those states don't need to have all the restrictions we have, due to all of the differences I listed above. Pretty basic knowledge- I really shouldn't have to explain it, SHOULD I??    


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Point taken.  However, all states with elk populations will obviously vary in their management methods and policies.  The primary issue being brought forth in this thread is that there appears to be a large number of elk hunters that are complaining about the same issues; that might indicate there are some issues that should be addressed by the WDFW and the affected hunters.

Since you brought up the differences between states, I looked into some of the differences.  Finding the exact amount of suitable elk habitat per state would take more time than I am willing to spend on this right now; however, I did find a map showing relative areas of elk habitat in the western United States (see attached picture).  I focused on 2010 numbers because that was the most recent human population census.  Note: Washington elk hunter success in 2012 was 13.5%; I was told the weather was the likely cause of the increase.  A significant difference between Washington and the other states is the hunter to elk ratio and the success rates.



State        Human Pop.     Elk Pop. Est.     Elk Hunter No.     Hunter to Elk Ratio      Elk Harvest      Success
Idaho          1,567,582        116,800           77,112                0.66                            17,470      22.7%
Montana        989,415           117,880           103,090              0.87                           24,744           24.0%
Washington   6,724,540        60,000             71,418                1.19                           7,060            9.9%
Wyoming      563,626           90,000             53,780                0.60                           25,672           47.7%


Sources:   
Human Population (2010):   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_population
    
    
Elk Population:   
Idaho (based on last flight survey 1997 to 2011):   http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/wildlife/elkPlan/state.pdf
Montana (2010):   http://fwp.mt.gov/fishAndWildlife/management/elk/
Washington  (Unpublished est. from WDFW):   Unpublished est. from WDFW.
Wyoming:   http://fwpiis.mt.gov/content/getItem.aspx?id=31498
    
    
Elk Hunter Numbers:   
Idaho (2010):   http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/wildlife/elkPlan/state.pdf
Montana (2010):   http://fwp.mt.gov/hunting/planahunt/harvestReports.html
Washington (2010):   http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01327/wdfw01327.pdf
Wyoming (2010):   http://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/Departments/Hunting/pdfs/HR2010_ELK0000805.pdf
    
    
Elk Harvest:   
Idaho (2010):   http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/wildlife/elkPlan/state.pdf
Montana (2010):   http://fwp.mt.gov/hunting/planahunt/harvestReports.html
Washington (2010):   http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2010/elk_general.html
Wyoming (2010):   http://wgfd.wyo.gov/web2011/Departments/Hunting/pdfs/HR2010_ELK0000805.pdf


Elk range per RMEF
http://www.rmef.org/Conservation/WhereWeConserve.aspx?elkrange=true&projects=false

Your success rate comparison is apples to oranges though.   Washington does not offer near the same amount of opportunity to shoot bulls and cows on a OTC tag like you can in some hunt districts in WY, MT, and ID.  Therefore, the success rate does not really compare the quality of the hunting in terms of harvest.  Especially when you consider that areas like the Blues, the Colockum, and the Yakima units are all restricted to spike only.  That will drastically skew your harvest stats.

And, let's face it.  In terms of available geographic area to disperse elk hunters, Washington is quite lacking relative to these states.

 
If we don't get the facts out there, then there can't be rational discussions.  Colorado, Utah, and Arizona could also be added to the list, but it takes time to look up the information.  All states with significant elk populations and suitable elk habitat are obviously unique so comparisons will always be "apples to oranges" as you noted.  However, some states do seem to accommodate hunters better than others while maintaining very healthy elk populations.  Hearing and reading comments from other hunters who have personally experienced the changes in management policies, procedures, and season dates over the last couple of decades indicates there may be issues that should be addressed.  There is no "silver-bullet" solution, but getting the facts together may help build a foundation for meaningful discussions and responsible changes in Washington wildlife management policies, procedures, and season dates.

There are far too many hunters that are not satisfied with the current situation to believe that there are not issues that need to be addressed.  Gather the facts and let the discussions begin between hunters and the WDFW.

[csaaphill]

 
Really animal rights with the help of hunters didn't pass no hound hunting?
Aren't animal rightists especially in and around Seattle continuiously trying to undermine us.
Haven't these shorter seasons and other issues been the Grand ideas of some hunters somewhere?
Saying were our own worst enemy has nothing to do with paranoid it's a fact we always fight and argue untill someone sneaks in and messes with our hunting.
Mush liek this issue it seems were divided here some contribute Indians others contribute technoligy while other defend technology. SOme have even said permit only much like ORegon to me that's the straw that broke the camels back.

[RG]

There is a forum for this. If overwhelming crowds of hunters from every venue showed up at the commissions public meetings and showered Olympia with personal contact, letters, emails etc.  that would be a start. Right now a few guys show up and vent and get categorized as extremists then the politics can go on unchecked.

[Elkaholic daWg]

[huntrights]

There is a forum for this. If overwhelming crowds of hunters from every venue showed up at the commissions public meetings and showered Olympia with personal contact, letters, emails etc.  that would be a start. Right now a few guys show up and vent and get categorized as extremists then the politics can go on unchecked.

As with all things political; a unified voice is essential in order to be effective.


As an added note: It seems that the number of Washington elk hunters dropped by 3,468 between 2010 and 2012 (2,854 of those were in the modern firearm group):
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2012/elk_general.html

http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2010/elk_general.html
   

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Huntrights, you do realize that despite there being 3368 less elk hunters in 2012 compared to 2010 that the hunters that did hunt took 2,012 more elk. That's a 29.7% improvement. And hunter success improved from 9.9% to 13.5% in 2012 compared to 2010.

[Special T]

I realize that the WDFW is managing hunters and thier $. If harvest numbers were so important then perhaps the multi season tags are to blame...

[huntrights]

Huntrights, you do realize that despite there being 3368 less elk hunters in 2012 compared to 2010 that the hunters that did hunt took 2,012 more elk. That's a 29.7% improvement. And hunter success improved from 9.9% to 13.5% in 2012 compared to 2010.

 
Apparently "weather cooperated" in 2012 creating better elk hunting conditions.  According to those that were hunting in the "good old days", when the general hunting season was later (i.e. first couple of weeks in November versus the end of October), the weather had a better chance of "cooperating" (snows pushing the elk herds to lower elevations).  Spike only and true spike hunts have also had an effect on the total hunter success.  In order to understand what has happened, we need to put the pieces of the puzzle together.

The elk hunters that have hunted several decades in the same areas have noted the decline in hunter success during the general season after the season was moved earlier to the end of October.  Moving the season a few weeks earlier apparently had a negative affect on hunter success due to the typical weather during those times.  If the elk herds that reside in higher elevations have not started their migrations due to weather (i.e. snow), then only smaller year-round resident herds might be all that is available to elk hunters.  How many spike elk are in the spike only areas if only the resident, year-round herds are present?

There is obviously a delicate balancing act with season timing.  If the season is placed at the height of the winter elk migration, hunter success might exceed what is considered an acceptable harvest needed to maintain healthy and sustainable populations.  If the season is scheduled before any elk migration occurs due to weather conditions, then the hunter success will most likely be lower; this is what we seem to be experiencing now.

Large apex predators (i.e. wolves) throw in another wildcard since WDFW can't really control how many elk are killed by them.  According to Big Game Forever, each wolf may kill up to 36 elk per year.  Wolf populations in Washington are growing.  As of March 2013, according to the WDFW web site, the Washington wolf population is estimated to be between 51 and 101.  "The minimum wolf count is 51. The estimated population, based on average pack size from other western states and transient wolves, is 101 animals. The actual population in Washington is likely within that range." http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/packs/  Using the Big Game Forever elk kill rate per wolf, the current estimated wolf population may kill between 1,836 to 3,636 elk per year in Washington.

As mentioned before, there seems to be far too many elk hunters that are not happy with the current situation.  Apparently many have become so frustrated that they no longer will hunt elk in Washington; they go to other states like Idaho and Montana.  This seems to indicate there may be issues that should be discussed and reviewed regarding the current regulatory policies.

[snowpack]

You can have more opportunity and quality but you need more elk to do it.
I live and hunt here on the west side of the Penninsula and have for about 45 years. There used to be a ton of elk hunters, camps everywhere. The elk are scarce now and so are the hunters. Hunters go where there are elk and if we had as many as we used to have here we would undoubtably get some back. Spread the hunters out and you reduce crowding and you get back quality.
I've seen three hunters this elk season. That was just passing them on the road not out in the brush. Haven't even seen a man track off the road. I have quality out the wazoo, just no elk.

Figure out how to bring the elk back and the rest of the problems solve themselves.

I was in a nearby area and somewhat similar story.  The GMU I was in used to be packed with people 30 years ago.  There would be camps on every spur/ridge/pullout that you could imagine and the campgrounds were overflowing.  At night you could look around and count hundreds of campfires on the ridges.  Everyday you'd hear at least fifty shots (they might all be at the same animal though  ).  Loggers just kind of figured they would be strapping a few elk to the wire and flying them out.  Most camps were there the entire season.
Now...campgrounds are less than half full and you see maybe two or three camps out on the roads.  See maybe a handful of hunters the entire season.  You barely hear two or three shots each season.  Hardly any road hunters.  And most of the camps/hunters left within a week.

[csaaphill]

guess these are what people wanted which is good in a way, but when you consider a political voice ours is dwindling.
 
If someone puts out a petition to reallow dogs for cougers I'll sign.
Ill still voice my opinions for longer seasons but to change things up more often as well.
every couple of years would keep us on our toes which I think would go further in management.
not this get cozy with us and last decades crap that does now.

[sakoshooter]

Very well written. I hope it falls on listening ears.