muzzle loader regs questions

[Sabotloader]

10thmountainarcher

You are correct the Idaho rule says 'ready to fire'

[Sabotloader]

I think ignition does have to something to do with accuracy as far as pressures and everything are concerned.  I shoot a black diamond xr. It is very legal in Washington state shooting a musket cap.

Type of ignition has very little to do with range or velocity.  But it can have a lot to do with 'Lock Time'. Which is/was one of the Traditional groups biggest arguments about inlines for years.

I have conducted several chono tests using different ignition systems and the really is not much difference in velocity of the given bullet with a given powder.

[10thmountainarcher]

10thmountainarcher

You are correct the Idaho rule says 'ready to fire'

Thanks for clarifying I thought I was losing it because I have seen a few people mention it haha.

[W_Ellison2011]

I think ignition does have to something to do with accuracy as far as pressures and everything are concerned.  I shoot a black diamond xr. It is very legal in Washington state shooting a musket cap.

Type of ignition has very little to do with range or velocity.  But it can have a lot to do with 'Lock Time'. Which is/was one of the Traditional groups biggest arguments about inlines for years.

I have conducted several chono tests using different ignition systems and the really is not much difference in velocity of the given bullet with a given powder.

Actually the ignition DOES have a huge effect on range and velocity. Think about it.. if you ignition fires hotter and faster then the propellent or powder will react faster and burn faster thus giving you a much smoother burn. Where as if your ignition is a littler slower or not as hot the powder won't get as much of a initial burn or reaction thus the slower rate of burn means less pressure and thus less velocity and range.

[longrangekiller]

It's a lot like reloading u got match magnum primers and regular magnum primers you also got fast burning powder and slow burning powder u gotta miss match all the powders primers and sabots ( bullets) to find the right load for your gun. I personally mount a scope on my muzzy to shoot and find my load and then take it off and sight in with my open sights it works wonders 

[RG]

Accuracy of the gun us unaffected by the ignition.  My flintlocks shoot as well as my cap lock traditional guns and my White's inline.  It's the nut behind the gun that makes the difference.  I hunt with the flintlocks and they are much harder to shoot accurately because of the lock time, .25 seconds +- delay.  If I don't practice with them I miss the first shot of the season.  They have green mountain barrels and will cloverleaf shots at 100 yards with patched round balls and goex black powder.  I'm a traditionalist and ride old classic hand made saddles on my horses too, that's the way I roll but I also welcome the inline guns my hunting partners bring to camp.  It's the sport, not the tool that counts.

[Bookworm007]

 

Accuracy of the gun us unaffected by the ignition.  My flintlocks shoot as well as my cap lock traditional guns and my White's inline.  It's the nut behind the gun that makes the difference.  I hunt with the flintlocks and they are much harder to shoot accurately because of the lock time, .25 seconds +- delay.  If I don't practice with them I miss the first shot of the season.  They have green mountain barrels and will cloverleaf shots at 100 yards with patched round balls and goex black powder.  I'm a traditionalist and ride old classic hand made saddles on my horses too, that's the way I roll but I also welcome the inline guns my hunting partners bring to camp.  It's the sport, not the tool that counts.

[Runamuck]

bobcat you are the only one that has given me a decent response on this. I've been asking it for years now and that response will satisfy me. I agree that the regs were written in a way that inlines were meant to be illegal to hunt with in Washington. My reasoning behind this is because they want muzzleloader hunters to have more of a challenge and with the inlines now they can shoot 250-300 yards where as like with my old hawkens .50 cal I wouldn't shoot beyond 100 yards even with a sabot.

If WDFW wanted inlines to be illegal....they would be.......

[scottcrb]

My reasoning behind this is because they want muzzleloader hunters to have more of a challenge and with the inlines now they can shoot 250-300 yards where as like with my old hawkens .50 cal I wouldn't shoot beyond 100 yards even with a sabot.

Sights are the primary limitation, and always have been.

Yeah I think the open sights are the biggest limitation as well. at much over 100-125 yards the majority of the animal is covered by the front bead.

[Lingcod]

Peep sights will help, I have a vortek nw magnum which is a break action and has a hole cut to make it open weather however I had to switch out the primer nipple from 209 to #11 to make it legal ($10 threaded nipple). Vortek advertises it will shoot accurately out to 300 yds but with open sights or peep sights I wouldn't shoot past 100-150 yds.

The way Washington set the regs up stiil makes it challenging to use modern inline muzzleloaders. It hasn't happened to me but I have heard from a lot of guys that they have missed out on nice animals because of miss fires due to the combination of the open breech and the #11 caps, and for this reason they switched back to modern. Also getting your load set up and practicing takes much more time than sighting in a modern rifle.

If using inlines in wa state was easy everybody would be doing it. I think they have it right allowing modern equipment while still making it challenging.

[Sabotloader]

I think ignition does have to something to do with accuracy as far as pressures and everything are concerned.  I shoot a black diamond xr. It is very legal in Washington state shooting a musket cap.

Type of ignition has very little to do with range or velocity.  But it can have a lot to do with 'Lock Time'. Which is/was one of the Traditional groups biggest arguments about inlines for years.

I have conducted several chono tests using different ignition systems and the really is not much difference in velocity of the given bullet with a given powder.

Actually the ignition DOES have a huge effect on range and velocity. Think about it.. if you ignition fires hotter and faster then the propellent or powder will react faster and burn faster thus giving you a much smoother burn. Where as if your ignition is a littler slower or not as hot the powder won't get as much of a initial burn or reaction thus the slower rate of burn means less pressure and thus less velocity and range.

As an example I would ask you to look at these velocities all fired the same day with the same powder.  Primers used were all types from the hottest primer to the coolest ML primers.  The variance was not that much.



This target was shot from an old Austin and Halleck with a #11 Mag cap.  You have to do some searching to do the comparison and keep in mind the upper target was BH-209 which normally creates about 100 fps with a 250 grain bullet than does T7.  So comparing the 250 grain bullets shot in the target below, add about 100 fps if the were BH209 and you can see the final velocity would be approximately the same.



And to go along with all of this - primers make a good deal of difference with real Smokeless Progressive burning powders used in centerfire rifles and pistols.

[Rooster1981]

As far as inlines shooting farther & more accurate than traditional side-locks, I believe there is a misconception there.  It has nothing to do with the ignition type and everything to do with the barrel. If you take a Kentucky long rifle with 1-78 twist shooting patched round balls with 100 grns of powder, and then take that load and put it in a knight bighorn with a 1-28 twist the Kentucky will out shoot the inline every day. Then switch the scenario and try shooting a sabot out of your old Kentucky long rifle and see what happens.  Each rifle shoots with a specific barrel meant to be loaded with a certain type of load. Apples and Oranges. My hawkens shoots great out to 150 yards  and if I lighten up my conical from 425 to 350 I could shoot farther. But I cant see past 100 yards open sights no matter what gun it is. So its a moot point. 
   And there are many inlines that are legal in Washington. I just bought a old T/C scout. Its breach is completely out in the open And it only shoots with number 11 caps.  Just my two 

[Dan-o]

bobcat you are the only one that has given me a decent response on this. I've been asking it for years now and that response will satisfy me. I agree that the regs were written in a way that inlines were meant to be illegal to hunt with in Washington. My reasoning behind this is because they want muzzleloader hunters to have more of a challenge and with the inlines now they can shoot 250-300 yards where as like with my old hawkens .50 cal I wouldn't shoot beyond 100 yards even with a sabot.

That's just funny.....   you ask a question, get the correct answer and then reject it.....   

If WDFW wanted inlines to be illegal, they could have:
    a)  Mandated that the ignition must be exposed to the elements
    b)  Mandated percussion caps or musket caps only
    c)  Outlawed hunting on Sundays
    d)  Made inline muzzleloaders illegal

[BOOM!!]

bobcat you are the only one that has given me a decent response on this. I've been asking it for years now and that response will satisfy me. I agree that the regs were written in a way that inlines were meant to be illegal to hunt with in Washington. My reasoning behind this is because they want muzzleloader hunters to have more of a challenge and with the inlines now they can shoot 250-300 yards where as like with my old hawkens .50 cal I wouldn't shoot beyond 100 yards even with a sabot.

That's just funny.....   you ask a question, get the correct answer and then reject it.....   


If WDFW wanted inlines to be illegal, they could have:
    a)  Mandated that the ignition must be exposed to the elements
    b)  Mandated percussion caps or musket caps only
    c)  Outlawed hunting on Sundays
    d)  Made inline muzzleloaders illegal

You make it seem like they can do anything they want? Dem bass turds     

[kerrdog]

bobcat you are the only one that has given me a decent response on this. I've been asking it for years now and that response will satisfy me. I agree that the regs were written in a way that inlines were meant to be illegal to hunt with in Washington. My reasoning behind this is because they want muzzleloader hunters to have more of a challenge and with the inlines now they can shoot 250-300 yards where as like with my old hawkens .50 cal I wouldn't shoot beyond 100 yards even with a sabot.

Thanks for this post.