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Author Topic: bow upgrade question  (Read 2545 times)

Offline vandeman17

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bow upgrade question
« on: December 26, 2013, 02:28:46 PM »
I am planning on upgrading from my Diamond "the rock" bow this spring. I have it set at about a 29" draw and it is set at 68 lbs. I plan to go shoot a few different bows to see what feels good and fits me right. What I am torn about is poundage that I want to pull. I don't have a problem drawing or holding my current bow when standing but it is a little tougher when kneeling or seated. I am past the state of mind where I need to be pulling as much poundage or shooting the biggest gun. I am looking to get set up with something where I can smoothly draw with as little motion as possible while still maintaining good KE and down range efficiency. I have heard that bows are more proficient when the draw weight is towards the upper end of the range ie a 60-70 set at 68 is more efficient then when set at 62. Do you think I should go with a 50-60 and set it at 60 or what are your thoughts?
" I have hunted almost every day of my life, the rest have been wasted"

Offline Westside88

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Re: bow upgrade question
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2013, 03:13:23 PM »
When I bought my bow a good friend with a lot of archery bulls under his belt, told me not to exceed more poundage than I could pull sitting down. I practice that way and from my knees and I think it was good advice

Offline vandeman17

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Re: bow upgrade question
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2013, 03:22:07 PM »
When I bought my bow a good friend with a lot of archery bulls under his belt, told me not to exceed more poundage than I could pull sitting down. I practice that way and from my knees and I think it was good advice

I agree. I would like to be able to sit down and comfortably draw. My motivation for this is I have started hunting more out of tree stands and ground blinds so it isn't always conducive to the normal standing shot where I can draw by leaning back a bit etc.
" I have hunted almost every day of my life, the rest have been wasted"

Offline Russ McDonald

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Re: bow upgrade question
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2013, 03:28:47 PM »
My bow is maxed put at 76 and shoot sitting down that is how i practice at times.  I have shot out of a blind and tree stand.  I just got another bow that is set at 63 maxed.  Should be even easier.  I do agree that you should be comfortable drawing sitting down or kneeling if that is what your going to be doing.

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Offline MtnMuley

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Re: bow upgrade question
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2013, 03:31:12 PM »
Go with the 60-70 and turn it down to low 60's.  Forget the 50-60 idea. :twocents:  Also, what's your current let off?  Most newer models are 80%, which make it much easier to maintain the draw.

Offline vandeman17

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Re: bow upgrade question
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2013, 03:42:58 PM »
Go with the 60-70 and turn it down to low 60's.  Forget the 50-60 idea. :twocents:  Also, what's your current let off?  Most newer models are 80%, which make it much easier to maintain the draw.

I believe my current let off is 65% but I can't recall for sure. I can maintain a draw for a while and practice that. I am more thinking about the actual first part of the draw where I can be smooth and the only real motion would be just my right arm moving and nothing else.
" I have hunted almost every day of my life, the rest have been wasted"

Offline RadSav

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Re: bow upgrade question
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2013, 03:43:25 PM »
It used to be that compound bows were made with stiff limbs that bent very little.  What that meant is the cables and limbs had very little pre-load.  If you backed those bows off very far from the maximum draw weight setting the bow would become increasingly noisy while the cables went from an almost relaxed state to tight during the post shot oscillations.  Most of todays bows are quite a bit different.  We've learned that a lightweight limb pre-loaded to a higher poundage keeps strings and cables tighter and stores energy even before the draw cycle is started.  We could not get away with that when wood laminations and old epoxies were used.  Modern materials allow us to go to extremes never before thought possible ten years ago.  And we now reach higher performance levels as a result.  It also allows bows a good amount of adjustment without losing it's quiet nature and good performance level.

Bows are designed to perform at their peak when shot at maximum poundage.  Now while this is true, with todays high preload limbs it's a point of complete minutia.  As long as your cables do not become relaxed and vibration excessive the bow should shoot as well if not better than the human subject holding it.  Especially if shooting a bow that uses a max loaded limb such as PSE, Bear, New Hoyts, McPherson, Bowtech and many others.

It's far more important for you to be comfortable these days.  Poundage is over rated by most.  Take for example my older Hoyt I used to tag the majority of my animals.  I shot that bow at poundage's between 68 and 70# with 2213's and 2115 shafts.  I experienced some long range kills with this setup and almost always experienced complete pass through.  If I was to try and use these same arrow shafts with my Bear or Bowtech bows today I'd have to be shooting about 50 to 52# of draw weight.  And I would see about the same speed as I did back when I shot those at 70#.  So does that mean my old setup would be inadequate if I used it today?  Oh heck no!  Dead then would be dead now!  Symantics of a number means nothing.  Hitting what you are aiming at means everything.

I do not promote any certain poundage level.  That is a personal preference.  Just keep things well matched and tuned.  You will be just fine.  And I'd be much more concerned about what camera I chose to capture those images of a lifetime.  That makes more of a difference than what you have your bow weight set to within the manufacturers stated limitations.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2013, 01:46:19 AM by RadSav »
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Offline vandeman17

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Re: bow upgrade question
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2013, 03:51:10 PM »
It used to be that compound bows were made with stiff limbs that bent very little.  What that meant is the cables and limbs had very little pre-load.  If you backed those bows off very far from the maximum draw weight setting the bow would become increasingly noisy while the cables went from an almost relaxed state to tight during the post shot oscillations.  Most of todays bows are quite a bit different.  We've learned that a lightweight limb pre-loaded to a higher poundage keeps strings and cables tighter and stores energy even before the draw cycle is started.  We could not get away with that when wood laminations and old epoxies were used.  Modern materials allow us to go to extremes never before thought possible ten years ago.  And we now reach higher performance levels as a result.  It also allows bows a good amount of adjustment without losing it's quiet nature and good performance level.

Bows are designed to perform at their peak when shot at maximum poundage.  Now while this is true, with todays high preload limbs is a point of complete minutia.  As long as your cables do not become relaxed and vibration excessive the bow should shoot as well if not better than the human subject holding it.  Especially if shooting a bow that uses a max loaded limb such as PSE, Bear, New Hoyts, McPherson, Bowtech and many others.

It's far more important for you to be comfortable these days.  Poundage is over rated by most.  Take for example my older Hoyt I used to tag the majority of my animals.  I shot that bow at poundage's between 68 and 70# with 2213's and 2115 shafts.  I experienced some long range kills with this setup and almost always experienced complete pass through.  If I was to try and use these same arrow shafts with my Bear or Bowtech bows today I'd have to be shooting about 50 to 52# of draw weight.  And I would see about the same speed as I did back when I shot those at 70#.  So does that mean my old setup would be inadequate if I used it today?  Oh heck no!  Dead then would be dead now!  Symantics of a number means nothing.  Hitting what you are aiming at means everything.

I do not promote any certain poundage level.  That is a personal preference.  Just keep things well matched and tuned.  You will be just fine.  And I'd be much more concerned about what camera I chose to capture those images of a lifetime.  That makes more of a difference than what you have your bow weight set to within the manufacturers stated limitations.

Thanks Rad. I was hoping you were going to chime in. I will probably end up posting up my bow on here for sale early spring and use that money to put towards a new bow. I won't even get into what BRAND of bow to get because that is personal preference but I might pick your brain when I am buying if that is ok. I bought my current bow like 8 years ago when I started bow hunting and didn't want to spend an arm and a leg until I knew if I liked it. Now that I know that I LOVE it then its time to get one that fits me like a glove.  :tup:
" I have hunted almost every day of my life, the rest have been wasted"

Offline buckfvr

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Re: bow upgrade question
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2013, 03:56:52 PM »
Some of the new bows have 55-65lb limbs as an option......that being what it is, myself and others I hunt and shoot with have all gone 50-60lb over the last 10 years.  We ALL shoot better.

I strive for a bow that I can draw easily in the cold in one slow fluid motion, being able to stop momentarily at any point as necessary by circumstance, and then continue to full draw.

Offline vandeman17

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Re: bow upgrade question
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2013, 04:04:09 PM »
Some of the new bows have 55-65lb limbs as an option......that being what it is, myself and others I hunt and shoot with have all gone 50-60lb over the last 10 years.  We ALL shoot better.

I strive for a bow that I can draw easily in the cold in one slow fluid motion, being able to stop momentarily at any point as necessary by circumstance, and then continue to full draw.

Exactly what I am looking for as well!
" I have hunted almost every day of my life, the rest have been wasted"

Offline RadSav

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Re: bow upgrade question
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2013, 04:24:23 PM »
Just to add a little clarification...

I do believe you should shoot as much poundage as you can easily draw within reason.  One of the criteria for me is to sprint as hard as I can until I just can not sprint anymore (that's not far these days ;)).  Then try and draw the bow in that out of breath, spent tired condition.  If you struggle with it, you have too much weight!  Of course this is for someone who has been shooting for a while.  Newbies haven't yet developed the proper muscles so that is not a good measure for them.

And then there is the "Common Sense" approach too.  Many young men in good shape can probably shoot 80# without much trouble.  While I have shot 80# during much of my 20's it was unnecessary even in the bows we shot back then. And I'd expect every animal I shot back then could just as easily have been killed with 60#. Wherever you fall within the 55-70# range should be fine and reasonable.

These days I tend to shoot in the 60-65# range.  It's been mainly because the 300 spine arrows are hard to get in arrow shafts I like.  And the 340 spine arrow has just been so darn good to me I'm willing to drop poundage to keep it.  And to further note, 2013 might just be the best year I've ever had for accurate shooting in the field.  That's combined shooting a Martin Alien, Bowtech Experience, Bear Dark Horse and a Bear Motive 7.  All of them tagging animals or turkeys with single arrows on spot.  All of them shooting between 62 and 65#.  I'm sure the new pair of glasses didn't hurt!  But, perhaps there is some correlation with no longer shooting 68-72# as in the previous twenty years.
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Offline vandeman17

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Re: bow upgrade question
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2013, 04:44:03 PM »
Roger that
" I have hunted almost every day of my life, the rest have been wasted"

 


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