Barnes TMZ not expanding

[kerrdog]

This is the bullet I recovered from my first bull early season.  It was a 150 yard downhill shot (I ranged it afterward).  The bull dropped where he stood, but there was no expansion of the bullet.  Just a dent near the tip.  The polymer tip was still there, just smashed in a bit.

[erk444]

I have recovered 2 TMZs from elk, and both have expanded perfectly. Maybe they loose they're efficiency at that distance . My longest shot was 90 yards. I only shoot 90 grains of powder though. Where did you hit him? Maybe it didn't have a chance to expand if it hit his spine?

[Chukarhead]

Wow...that doesn't look anything like the bullets we've recovered.  I've recovered three in the last four years...and all have expanded really well.  Barnes recommends pretty hot loading to achieve that expansion, though, and at 150 yards, your bullet is quite a bit slower than at muzzle.  We shoot 130ish grains of 3f 777.  I've seen some photos of mashed up bullets that hit bone immediately (near shoulder, for example), but nothing like that.

[Jonathan_S]

The bull dropped where he stood.

You poor thing 

Doesn't sound terribly urgent, congrats on the bull.  Good luck figuring it out.

[kerrdog]

I was using 120 grains of Triple 7 3f.  I'm glad to hear that Barnes usually do expand, because I stocked up on them during the ammo scare. I was starting to question whether the solid copper/brass bullets expand reliably in the real world. Last year we pulled some unexpanded bloodlines out of a cow.

 

[sagewalker]

I shoot barnes tmz spitfire and ive never had a problem not expanding, they are the only bullet I will shoot in my muzzleloader. in my opinion they are the most accurate!

[MountainDevil54]

how high up in the shoulder did you hit it?  Barnes run off hydraulics and need water " body fluid, blood,fat,muscle" to fully open up. You can shoot them into dry sand and they wont open at all. Put a little plastic bag of water in front of that sand bucket and they'll completely open.

[slaymaker3]

135 pyro select 110 yards on a cow double lung. Performed perfectly

[kerrdog]

I'm thinking that maybe I hit a rib at an angle on the way in.  It probably made the bullet tumble a little so it wasn't able to open up.  I'm glad to hear that they will expand on something besides ballistic gelatin and lab conditions.

[BOOM!!]

This is the bullet I recovered from my first bull early season.  It was a 150 yard downhill shot (I ranged it afterward).  The bull dropped where he stood, but there was no expansion of the bullet.  Just a dent near the tip.  The polymer tip was still there, just smashed in a bit.

I was using 120 grains of Triple 7 3f.  I'm glad to hear that Barnes usually do expand, because I stocked up on them during the ammo scare. I was starting to question whether the solid copper/brass bullets expand reliably in the real world. Last year we pulled some unexpanded bloodlines out of a cow.

 

I'm thinking that maybe I hit a rib at an angle on the way in.  It probably made the bullet tumble a little so it wasn't able to open up.  I'm glad to hear that they will expand on something besides ballistic gelatin and lab conditions.

Hi kerrdog, this is confusing for me too. You hit a bull at 150 yards probably hitting a rib on entry, the bullet didn't expand and the bull dropped right where he stood. That tells me one of two things happened, the bullet hit the spine or the bullet hit a vital and the bull not being spooked bleed out right where he stood? Since you had the same problem with the bloodlines not expanding my guess would be that the triple7 is losing its potency because of all that wetside moisture in the air. I have read posts on other muzzleload forums that some people will not use triple7 because it loses its pop. If you think about it, those bloodlines should have penciled through since they didn't open up yet you found them inside.

[kerrdog]

I hope it's not my rifle.  It was the same rifle that that fired those bloodlines.  I wondered if the bullet tumbled in flight, (I often see sideways bullet holes in my targets after about 6 shots and the barrel is good and warm)  but I really don't think it could have retained the energy and accuracy for 150 years if it was tumbling the whole way.

Anyway, when we were gutting him I made a half attempt to see what had been hit.  One of his lungs was collapsed, but his heart looked great.  I'm guessing I nailed a major artery right next to the heart. He was very relaxed and did not know what happened.

[h20hunter]

My guess only from personal experience with Barnes is what was mentioned about velocity....powder may have moisture and you may have lost a little velocity. My last shot on a tough animal with a barnes also ended up being a no tracking needed shot but not the pretty expansion. I would suggest a crony and see what she is jumping out there at.

[Chukarhead]

Here are three data points... more critters have died in the past few years, but we haven't recovered the bullets (none from deer).  These three were from my elk.  The one that looks a little crumpled and lopsided was from a hard-away angle shot on a bull.  The bullet glanced off a rib.  All three bullets did an amazing amount of damage.  130 gr. of T7 FFFPP.  Hard-away bull at 70 yd, and broadside cows at 75 and 100 yards. Knight Bighorn.

[SkookumHntr]

Those looked like they performed perfectly! Im gonna start shooting that bullet out of my bighorn and see how they group! Havnt been too impressed on my last 2 elk with the Hornady sst 300grn.

[erk444]

Here are three data points... more critters have died in the past few years, but we haven't recovered the bullets (none from deer).  These three were from my elk.  The one that looks a little crumpled and lopsided was from a hard-away angle shot on a bull.  The bullet glanced off a rib.  All three bullets did an amazing amount of damage.  130 gr. of T7 FFFPP.  Hard-away bull at 70 yd, and broadside cows at 75 and 100 yards. Knight Bighorn.

Hey Chukarhead, where did you hit the broadside cows? I ask because I have shot 2 cows broadside. One at 70 and one at 100 and both shots passed through. Both were lung hits. I only use 90gr of ff through my bighorn. Was curious why yours stayed in and mine didn't, even with less powder?