Muzzleloader 101...help.

[NoImpactNoIdea]

I am looking to get into BP shooting (more aptly hunting) and have yet to find a very good "101 guide" to inform me on what I should be looking at when buying my first rifle, the ins and outs of BP shooting, etc.  Ive looked at ARFCOM (I know, I know) and am a new member at Traditional Muzzleloading on the Cheap but havent really found what I am looking for.  Eventually I would love to get a Hawken style rifle, but am open to anything at the moment.

-What books have you read to help you out?
-Any first rifle suggestions?
-Tips and tricks you wish you would have known before you bought or when you were just starting out?

Thanks!

[ghosthunter]

There are many threads on here about Black powder. Maybe ask around your area for a Black powder club. Or maybe someone on here is close to you.

As  far as a rifle. I would buy a Knight or nothing.

[NoImpactNoIdea]

I read through about 9 pages yesterday and was hoping for a little more specific response to my questios as opposed to single threads answering other peoples.

[bobcat]

Lots of good reading here:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/index2h.muzzleloader.htm

[scout/sniper]

Lots of good reading here:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/index2h.muzzleloader.htm

Thanks bobcat, very good stuff there.

[Sabotloader]

I am looking to get into BP shooting (more aptly hunting) and have yet to find a very good "101 guide" to inform me on what I should be looking at when buying my first rifle, the ins and outs of BP shooting, etc.  Ive looked at ARFCOM (I know, I know) and am a new member at Traditional Muzzleloading on the Cheap but havent really found what I am looking for.  Eventually I would love to get a Hawken style rifle, but am open to anything at the moment.

-What books have you read to help you out?
-Any first rifle suggestions?
-Tips and tricks you wish you would have known before you bought or when you were just starting out?

Thanks!

See if this might help a bit.  It was written by a very good friend...

People have asked me to make a sticky of this list. For those starting out with a rifle, they are often at a loss as to what they need to start shooting. I am not saying this is a complete list, but it will get you started. Also you do not need every single item on this list. It breaks down to which on this list you want to use.


WHAT KIND OF SUPPLIES DO I NEED TO SHOOT MY RIFLE?

Black powder rifle supplies

DECIDE ON THE KIND OF POWDER

Pyrodex
Triple Se7en
Goex
Black Mag3
American Pioneer Powder
Black Horn 209 (make sure you can shoot this)


Make sure your rifle can shoot the kind of powder you select. Also decide if you want to shoot pellets or loose powder. Both will work in inline rifles with a 209 ignition system. Loose powder is cheaper. If starting out, I would go with Pyrodex RS or Triple Seven 2f until I establish a load. After that if you want to experiment with other powders, that?s where the fun comes in.

WHAT KIND OF IGNITION SYSTEM DO I HAVE AND WHAT DO I NEED?

209 primers
musket caps
#11 percussion caps

Rifles normally fall into three groups. The 209 primer, the musket cap, and the #11 percussion cap. But also remember, some rifles are set up to shoot small rifle primers and of course there are flintlocks. But you need to recognize the ignition system your rifle has and also consider the kind of powder you intend to shoot.

TOOLS NEEDED

See through powder measure
Cleaning jag
Cleaning mop
Patch worm
Bore brush
Short starter
Capper/de-capper - cappers come in different styles. The purpose of the capper is to hold 209 primers, musket caps, or #11 primers and they allow you to carry the caps/primers easier and to reach in hard to get to nipple, like when the rifle is scoped, and still put the cap on with relative ease. The de-capper is a small end that slips behind the 209 primer and allows you to pry the primer out of the breech plug. Also on the other end of the de-capper there is normally a place for you to set a 209 primer and reach into the rifle breech and put the primer in the breech plug.

Loading jag for the projectile
Nipple pick
Breech plug removal tool ? these are often included with the rifle. Also what works in some cases are a socket set with long extensions

CLEANING SUPPLIES

Isopropyl alcohol 91%
Car windshield washer fluid
Bore butter or lube for conical bullets
Gun Oil ? Birchwood Casey Sheath, REM OIL, Breakfree CLP, Montana Extreme gun products.

Q-tip safety swabs
Cleaning Patches
Bore Solvents

 Birchwood Casey Bore Scrubber
 Butch?s Bore Shine
 M.A.P. ? Murphy?s oil soap, alcohol, hydrogen peroxide

PROJECTILES
Sabots for the caliber of rifle
Bullets to match sabots according to the diameter of the bullet
Conicals
When you select a projectile, often times the manufacturer will give recommendations. I normally start off with some 250 grain Shockwaves and some 300 grain Hornady XTP's with the sabots that come with them. This will get you on paper, sometimes shoot very well, and also get you used to the rifle. After that you can experiment with all sorts of things. Conicals are another area of concern for some. Some states require Conicals for hunting. Look at the BullShop Conicals, No Excuses, and Great Plains if you wish to throw large chunks of lead around.

I am sure I forgot some things. Also I can not stress the value of a good range rod. They are better built then the one that comes with your rifle. They are longer, and can take more abuse. I save the rifle ramrod for hunting and show. Otherwise I get a good range ramrod and do all my loading and cleaning with that.


Cleaning a muzzleloader
ALWAYS BE POSITIVE THAT THE RIFLE IS NOT LOADED. CHECK THE RIFLE IF YOU HAVE ANY DOUBTS BEFORE STARTING THE CLEANING PROCESS.


Inline muzzleloaders

This is the way I like to clean them. Many people have their own methods and I am not trying to claim one is right over the other. This is just the method I use?

1. Swab the barrel with a patch on a cleaning jag. I like to saturate the patch with a mixture of 50/50 isopropyl alcohol and car windshield washer fluid. Some other things to use are Windex, and even simple water with some dish soap mixed in. All this step does is attempt to remove as much of the fowling as possible before I break the rifle down.
2. Disassemble the rifle according to the manufacture?s instructions. Be sure to lay the parts out in a orderly manner. In other words, know how it goes back together.
3. Take the fowled breech plug and place that in a soaking solution of water with a little dish soap. Also any other fowled parts that can be placed in that solution should be allowed to soak.
4. With the rifle now broken down, I like to take the isopropyl alcohol and windshield solution and wet a patch. I then wipe out the stock in all the areas that are fowled or COULD BE fowled. Allow that to dry as you clean the rest of the rifle.
5. Using a breech plug bush, wrap a patch around it, and saturate it with Windex or solvent. It is important that you scrub the breech plug threads and get them very clean. Continue with patches until you can look in there and see that the threads of that breech are clean and free of tape, or grease.
6. With a saturated patch, pushing from the breech to the muzzle, begin to swab the barrel clean of fowling. Do not drag the dirty patch back over the clean breech plug threads. This might take a couple saturated patches.
7. Place a brass bore brush on the ramrod and dip that in solvent. Now brush the barrel a couple times to remove anything that might have accumulated in the barrel.
8. With another saturated patch with some solvent or solution, swab the bore of the rifle again in the same manner you did before.. Note the color and condition of the patch. If it is clean, then you need to take steps to dry the barrel.
9. With just dry patches, swab the barrel until you are certain the barrel is dry. Feel that patch and if you feel moisture on it, keep swabbing with more patches.
10. When your certain the barrel is clean and dry, and the threads of the breech plug are clean and dry, put a HIGH QUALITY GUN OIL on a patch and swab the barrel of the rifle. Be sure to work that oil in real good into the bore to cover all parts. Now you can set the barrel aside.
11. Remove the fowled parts from the soaking jar. Clean the breech plug free of all fowling and tape. A toothbrush is very handy for this. I like to take them to the sink and under running water, put a little hand soap on the threads, then brush them clean of all fowling, and rinse the soap off them.
12. I then take some Q-tips and dip them in solvent. I clean the inside of the breech plug very carefully and the outside of any spots that might have fowling. Hold that up to the light and you should be able to see light through it.
13. Clean all other fowled parts using patches, solvent, Q-tips or anything else you might need.
14. Take the trigger and spray it with a solvent or cleaner of sorts. I like to do this outside. I use brake cleaner. After I have sprayed down the inside of the trigger, I like to take my air compressor and using a high pressure air nozzle, blow all the moisture and cleaner out of the trigger assembly. I then put a few drops of quality gun oil in the trigger mechanism.
15. Next I take some white Teflon plumbers tape and wrap the breech plug. I then take some anti seize and an small paint brush used for painting models, and paint into the threads over the tape a coating of anti seize. When I have all parts of that covered. I replace the breech plug back into the rifle barrel.
16. Next is put the trigger assembly back on.
17. Now you reassemble all the parts with a light coat of oil on them.
18. Replace the assembled barrel back in to the stock. Lock the barrel to the stock with the locking lug screw. Try and develop a feel for the amount of tension you put on the lug so you can do this each and every time.
19. Be sure to wipe the ramrod and the outside of the rifle off.
20. Your rifle is now protected and all you need do is swab the barrel with some alcohol before your next range trip to remove the oil in it.


LET?S SHOOT A RIFLE

Inline...

Make sure the rifle is clean and empty. Also, be sure that you have taped up or greased the breech plug. If you do not take and grease the breech plug you might have trouble getting it back out at the end of the day. Now we will start to load and shoot.

You have already decided on the powder and projectile already. So take a patch, lightly apply some isopropyl alcohol and swab the bore of the rifle. When you swab, put the patch over the end of the barrel and push the ramrod with the cleaning/loading jag into the patch. As you work the patch down the bore, work the patch in short strokes. Work from the muzzle to the breech. This is done in the beginning to remove any gun oils in the barrel. Later, you do this between shots to remove the fouling from the bore. After the damp patch, then work two dry patches through the bore. This will remove additional fouling and also dry the bore.

At this point I like to push a dry patch to the bottom of the breech on the ramrod jag. Then put a 209 primer into the breech plug. Now fire just that primer off. This blows any oil, etc that might have accumulated in the breech plug onto the cloth. Also it will indicate when you pull the patch and see the burn marks on it, that your fire channel is clean. When you see the burn marks, that?s what you want. You?re ready to load and shoot.

Measure out the amount of powder you wish to shoot in your rifle. Most modern inline rifles handle 100 grains of 2f grade powder and a modern projectile real well. Your powder might be in pellet form. So in this case, drop two pellets down the bore. With loose powder, set your measure and then fill to the top. Level the load and then dump that volume measure of powder down the bore. Some people will tap the butt of their rifle on their toe to level the powder charge. It is not really needed with the modern inline rifles but does not harm.

Now select your sabot and bullet. Put the bullet into the sabot. Put the sabot/bullet combination onto the muzzle or into the false muzzle of the rifle. Now with your short starter, push then sabot/bullet into the barrel as far as you can. Now with the ramrod, seat the bullet down the barrel onto the powder charge firmly.

You then put a primer into the back of the breech plug, and you are ready to shoot. Have fun. After you have shot, you need to swab the bore again like described earlier. Then load as described. And shoot again. Just repeat this procedure.



TRADITIONAL RIFLE?.


Make sure the rifle is clean and empty. So take a patch, lightly apply some isopropyl alcohol and swab the bore of the rifle. When you swab, put the patch over the end of the barrel and push the ramrod with the cleaning/loading jag into the patch. As you work the patch down the bore, work the patch in short strokes. Work from the muzzle to the breech. This is done in the beginning to remove any gun oils in the barrel. After the damp patch, then work two dry patches through the bore. With a dry patch pushed down to the breech, put a #11 cap or musket cap, which ever one your rifle takes, and pop that cap. Now pull that dry patch and check for burn marks on the patch. If you see none, do it again. Once you see the burn mark, I like to pop one more cap. Now you are ready to load the rifle.


Measure out the amount of powder you wish to shoot in your rifle. You can pour the powder from the jug into a powder measure, but never pour from the jug into the barrel of the rifle. So now you have a measured charge of powder down the barrel. Take a patch and if it is not pre lubed, apply the lube to it. Set that over the muzzle of the bore. Now put a round ball onto the patch. With the short starter, knock that ball under the crown. Now with the long nose of the short starter, push the patch and ball as deep as you can, into the barrel. Finish seating the ball and patch with the ramrod.

If you are shooting conical bullets, after you have dumped the powder, put the lubed conical (if the conical requires lube) and with the short starter, drive that conical as deep as you can into the bore. Now finish seating the conical onto the powder charge. Make sure you do so firmly.

Now cock the hammer of the rifle back. And place a cap or musket cap onto the nipple. Carefully lower the hammer down to half cock. Once you cock that rifle it is ready to fire.

And a second one with the same basic information....

WHAT KIND OF SUPPLIES DO I NEED TO SHOOT MY RIFLE?
________________
Black powder rifle supplies

DECIDE ON THE KIND OF POWDER

? Pyrodex
? Triple Se7en
? Goex
? Black Mag3
? American Pioneer Powder
? Black Horn 209

Make sure your rifle can shoot the kind of powder you select. Also decide if you want to shoot pellets or loose powder. Both will work in inline rifles with a 209 ignition system. Loose powder is cheaper. If starting out, I would go with Pyrodex RS or Triple Seven 2f until I establish a load. After that if you want to experiment with other powders, that?s where the fun comes in.

WHAT KIND OF IGNITION SYSTEM DO I HAVE AND WHAT DO I NEED?

* 209 primers
* musket caps
* #11 percussion caps


Rifles normally fall into three groups. The 209 primer, the musket cap, and the #11 percussion cap. But also remember, some rifles are set up to shoot small rifle primers and of course there are flintlocks. But you need to recognize the ignition system your rifle has and also consider the kind of powder you intend to shoot.

For instance, those that shoot BlackHorn 209 powder require a good strong hot 209 primer. The manufacturer often recommends not to use the weaker primers like Winchester Triple Seven or Remington Kleenbore primers. The reason is, the powder needs that hot strong ignition flame from the primer.

On the other hand a person wanting to shoot Triple Seven powder might find that if they use too hot of a primer they get a very nasty crud ring in the breech area of the rifle. A crud ring is powder that is caramelized for better words, from the combination of the heat of the primer and the triple seven powder components. Not all rifles shooting Triple Seven will develop a crud ring. But the problem was so apparent in many rifles that primer companies developed a weaker primer that the company hoped would produce less flame and hence less of a crud ring. These primers include Winchester?s Triple Seven primer, and Remington Kleenbore Primers. These primers still set off most all powders but BlackHorn and when shooting Triple Seven might help in the reduction of any crud build up. This crud ring can be normally easily swabbed out of the bore.

If you are shooting a percussion style traditional rifle, it might have a musket cap or a #11 percussion cap. You can tell which one your rifle needs by the size of the nipple. The musket cap is much larger then the #11 percussion cap. Know what your rifle needs and purchase according.

If you are shooting a flintlock, of course you will need a good quality flint or agate. I like the Black English flints by Thomas Fuller. But I have used agates and had great results with them as well.


TOOLS NEEDED

? See through powder measure
? Cleaning jag
? Cleaning mop
? Patch worm
? Bore brush
? Short starter
? Capper/de-capper - cappers come in different styles. The purpose of the capper is to hold 209 primers, musket caps, or #11 primers and they allow you to carry the caps/primers easier and to reach in hard to get to nipple, like when the rifle is scoped, and still put the cap on with relative ease. The de-capper is a small end that slips behind the 209 primer and allows you to pry the primer out of the breech plug. Also on the other end of the de-capper there is normally a place for you to set a 209 primer and reach into the rifle breech and put the primer in the breech plug.
? Loading jag for the projectile
? Nipple pick
? Breech plug removal tool ? these are often included with the rifle. Also what works in some cases are a socket set with long extensions


CLEANING SUPPLIES
? Isopropyl alcohol 91%
? Car windshield washer fluid
? Bore butter or lube for conical bullets
? Gun Oil ? Birchwood Casey Sheath, REM OIL, Breakfree CLP, Montana Extreme gun products.
? Q-tip safety swabs
? Cleaning Patches
? Bore Solvents
1. Birchwood Casey Bore Scrubber
2. Butch?s Bore Shine
3. M.A.P. ? Murphy?s oil soap, alcohol, hydrogen peroxide

PROJECTILES

? Sabots for the caliber of rifle
? Bullets to match sabots according to the diameter of the bullet
? Conicals


When you select a projectile, often times the manufacturer will give recommendations. I normally start off with some 250 grain Shockwaves and some 300 grain Hornady XTP's with the sabots that come with them. This will get you on paper, sometimes shoot very well, and also get you used to the rifle. After that you can experiment with all sorts of things. Conicals are another area of concern for some. Some states require Conicals for hunting. Look at the BullShop Conicals, No Excuses, and Great Plains if you wish to throw large chunks of lead around.

I am sure I forgot some things. Also I can not stress the value of a good range rod. They are better built then the one that comes with your rifle. They are longer, and can take more abuse. I save the rifle ramrod for hunting and show. Otherwise I get a good range ramrod and do all my loading and cleaning with that.

[NoImpactNoIdea]

Lots of good reading here:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/index2h.muzzleloader.htm

Thanks bobcat, very good stuff there.

I agree.  Thanks.

[MountainDevil54]

anything you read on chuck hawks you better take with a dang big grain of salt.

[NoImpactNoIdea]

anything you read on chuck hawks you better take with a dang big grain of salt.

Thanks for that.  After being on AR15.com for 8 years Ive pretty much come to live by the ethos "trust but verify" when it comes to internet data!

[scout/sniper]

anything you read on chuck hawks you better take with a dang big grain of salt.

Thanks for that.  After being on AR15.com for 8 years Ive pretty much come to live by the ethos "trust but verify" when it comes to internet data!

[usmc74]

What part of King Co are you in?

I belong to SVRC (Snoqualmie) and Cascade (Ravensdale) ranges

Maybe we can take you out and show you some traditional and inline rifles.
Shoot and clean so you can decide what you want to get/maintain?

I have a Knight Bighorn (inline/plunger).  I hunt with this

Rem 700ML  (inline/bolt) new barrel is coming, not currently shootable

Son has a CVA (inline/bolt)

Buddies have some traditionals (Lyman great plains, T/C renegade) if I can get them to participate

I use pyrodex, triple7, pellets or loose,  Buddies use black

[MagKarl]

This is a great source for general muzzleloading info if you are interested in anything outside of the plastic inline variety.  I'd suggest a lot of reading before you make a decision what type of weapon you are going to get.  Pros and cons to everything. 
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/fusionbb.php

[MountainDevil54]

heck, make it easy and get yourself a nice big caliber patched round ball shooter. Trust me, you will be a lot happier and the traditional groups are much friendlier LOL. No over priced bullets either. Thats what i've been slowly getting back into, just something that feels a lot better doing than a plastic stock or laminated stock can not ever do. And a big bore 54+ leaves a big hole in what it hits. I remember some years ago I popped a cow at 140 yards with my 54cal sidelock with Patched ball, she didnt go but 60 yards and after gutting her, her lungs were just toasted. A ball that cost me a few nickels to make myself did the same this those $1.50 - $2.00 bullets do.

[bobcat]

My favorite forum for muzzleloader info has always been this one:

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/black-powder-23/