What legislation would I introduce?

[bigtex]

The gross misdemeanor offense for forest product violations is an odd one. Under state law a misdemeanor is punishable by up to a $1,000 fine and/or 90 days in jail. A gross misdemeanor is punishable by up to a $5,000 fine and/or 364 days in jail.

However under the forest product chapter of laws a gross misdemeanor is punishable by up to a $1,000 fine and 364 days in jail. So for a forest product gross misdemeanor you have the maximum fine of a misdemeanor but the jail time of a gross misdemeanor.   

[bowbuild]

So, out of curiousity what qualifies you for the class C felony?

[Greenhorn]

I don't know why anybody would want more laws!  If there is actually a good suggestion for a new law then I would like to see some other law taken off the books.  Way too many laws in this country already!  All our legislature does is sit around trying to think up new laws to make, it is insane.

[bigtex]

I don't know why anybody would want more laws!  If there is actually a good suggestion for a new law then I would like to see some other law taken off the books.  Way too many laws in this country already!  All our legislature does is sit around trying to think up new laws to make, it is insane.

Did you actually read the post? These already are laws!

[bigtex]

So, out of curiousity what qualifies you for the class C felony?

The only forest product felony is RCW 76.48.141:

(1) It is unlawful for any person, upon official inquiry, investigation, or other authorized proceedings, to:
(a) Offer as genuine any paper, document, or other instrument in writing purporting to be a specialized forest products permit, true copy of a permit, authorization, sales invoice, bill of lading, or other document required under this chapter; or
(b) To make any representation of authority to possess or conduct harvesting or transporting of specialized forest products, or to conduct the sale of huckleberries, with knowledge that the representation of authority is in any manner false, fraudulent, forged, or stolen.
(2) It is unlawful for any person to produce a document for a first or secondary specialized forest products buyer purporting to be a true and genuine permit when delivering or attempting to deliver a specialized forest product with knowledge that the document is in any manner false, fraudulent, forged, or stolen.
(3) Any person who knowingly or intentionally violates this section is guilty of a class C felony punishable by imprisonment in a state correctional institution for a maximum term fixed by the court of not more than five years or by a fine of not more than five thousand dollars, or by both imprisonment and fine.

[bigtex]

This whole country is turning into a lawless society compared to years past simply from lack of enforcement in my opinion. All we worry about these days are serious crimes it seems. Because of this small crimes are not enforced and many folks don't even pay attention to them any more. Traffic is a perfect example. There seems to be "0" accountability these days. With the way kids are being raised today, it's only going to get worse. We certainly don't want to write anyone a ticket, it might offend them or they might call and make a complaint.

State Parks was, and always has been the "weak" state LE agency. Outside of a select few Parks the agency doesn't want LE Rangers to do LE and write citations. I actually know a LE Ranger who worked in a park where LE by the Rangers was "allowed" and he actually got in trouble for writing too many tickets. Not too many petty/small tickets, but too many tickets in general. State Parks would rather pay the sheriff's office or WDFW to come into the park and write tickets, then they do having their own personnel do so. And it's a reason why several LE Rangers have transferred to WDFW and the Liquor Control Board the last several years, at least with those agencies you can do LE.

If that is the case, then why don't the parks save money and get rid of Parks LEO all together.  Sounds like they are LEO in name only.  Didn't they propose cutting Parks law enforcement totally as an cost saving idea?

There has never been a proposal to totally eliminate Parks LE. There was a proposal to merge all WDFW, Parks, and DNR LE into one agency but you would still have different divisions. As a result of Parks budgets cuts something like two-thirds of Parks LE went from fulltime year round, to seasonal positions, that is all that has changed.

State law gives Parks LE the authority to enforce all laws within Parks, the problem is the mentality of the agency in Olympia, they don't want the friendly Ranger giving someone a citation. They would rather have WDFW, WSP, or an SO do it. Now who do you think costs more to fund, WDFW/WSP/SO or a LE Ranger? Of course the LE Ranger is cheaper. So to totally eliminate Parks LE and contract another agency would cost a lot. Would needs to happen is a mentality change in terms of LE at Parks in Olympia. From what I have heard, things are changing slowly, but they still are not pro-LE.

I actually found something out today from a former State Parks LEO. Around 2007 State Parks purchased Tasers for their LE Rangers. The State Parks Commission (just like the fish and wildlife commission) told the agency to not issue the Tasers as they will make the LE Rangers look "too tactical." This is the mentality I am talking about with Parks. Those Tasers are sitting in a box somewhere in a Parks storage facility.

[CAMPMEAT]

No more laws should be introduced. LEO's can't even enforce all the laws now. Work on what you have. We already have too big of government telling us what we can and can't do in our lives.

[bigtex]

No more laws should be introduced. LEO's can't even enforce all the laws now. Work on what you have. We already have too big of government telling us what we can and can't do in our lives.

Once again, these are NOT new laws. These laws are already in existence. All the legislation would do is make the laws actually be able to be enforced.

[CAMPMEAT]

Ok bigtex. Why are laws on the books that can't be enforced ? To me, a law is a law and can be enforced. Is it because these laws were written with the hopes on being enforced one day if they are on the books ? Kinda like grandfathered in....

[KFhunter]

Ok bigtex. Why are laws on the books that can't be enforced ? To me, a law is a law and can be enforced. Is it because these laws were written with the hopes on being enforced one day if they are on the books ? Kinda like grandfathered in....

It's because they require court appearance, and that'll never be filed.  They're unenforced basically on a technicality.

[Greenhorn]

Bigtex I appreciate what you are doing I am just tired of the constant barrage of new laws affecting every aspect of our lives constantly.

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

[bigtex]

Ok bigtex. Why are laws on the books that can't be enforced ? To me, a law is a law and can be enforced. Is it because these laws were written with the hopes on being enforced one day if they are on the books ? Kinda like grandfathered in....

It's because they require court appearance, and that'll never be filed.  They're unenforced basically on a technicality.

 

When I say enforced I mean actual tickets written or charges filed. The offenses I listed are all misdemeanors, as of Summer 2012 all misdemeanors no matter how petty require a mandatory court date. Do you think a prosecutor is going to file charges on somebody that used a rake on a huckleberry bush when he has 30 DUI cases on his desk?

When you decriminalize these offenses and make them infractions officers can now write tickets for them. As of right now since they are a misdemeanor they cant write tickets for them.

[KFhunter]

Bigtex I appreciate what you are doing I am just tired of the constant barrage of new laws affecting every aspect of our lives constantly.

Sent from my SCH-R970 using Tapatalk

Without BigTex doing his thing, you'd probably never know until you got a ticket for something you thought was legal.

[fireweed]

This whole country is turning into a lawless society compared to years past simply from lack of enforcement in my opinion. All we worry about these days are serious crimes it seems. Because of this small crimes are not enforced and many folks don't even pay attention to them any more. Traffic is a perfect example. There seems to be "0" accountability these days. With the way kids are being raised today, it's only going to get worse. We certainly don't want to write anyone a ticket, it might offend them or they might call and make a complaint.

State Parks was, and always has been the "weak" state LE agency. Outside of a select few Parks the agency doesn't want LE Rangers to do LE and write citations. I actually know a LE Ranger who worked in a park where LE by the Rangers was "allowed" and he actually got in trouble for writing too many tickets. Not too many petty/small tickets, but too many tickets in general. State Parks would rather pay the sheriff's office or WDFW to come into the park and write tickets, then they do having their own personnel do so. And it's a reason why several LE Rangers have transferred to WDFW and the Liquor Control Board the last several years, at least with those agencies you can do LE.

If that is the case, then why don't the parks save money and get rid of Parks LEO all together.  Sounds like they are LEO in name only.  Didn't they propose cutting Parks law enforcement totally as an cost saving idea?

There has never been a proposal to totally eliminate Parks LE. There was a proposal to merge all WDFW, Parks, and DNR LE into one agency but you would still have different divisions. As a result of Parks budgets cuts something like two-thirds of Parks LE went from fulltime year round, to seasonal positions, that is all that has changed.

State law gives Parks LE the authority to enforce all laws within Parks, the problem is the mentality of the agency in Olympia, they don't want the friendly Ranger giving someone a citation. They would rather have WDFW, WSP, or an SO do it. Now who do you think costs more to fund, WDFW/WSP/SO or a LE Ranger? Of course the LE Ranger is cheaper. So to totally eliminate Parks LE and contract another agency would cost a lot. Would needs to happen is a mentality change in terms of LE at Parks in Olympia. From what I have heard, things are changing slowly, but they still are not pro-LE.

The proposal was part of the internal parks assessment (not a proposed law).  As a member of a small community with no police, I would rather see our local state park with no on-site LEO, and have a deputy assigned to the area and the park with a cost-share provision.  Save money and cover more of the community.  I've never understood how a park can have their own LEO and a community nearby have none.

[bigtex]

This whole country is turning into a lawless society compared to years past simply from lack of enforcement in my opinion. All we worry about these days are serious crimes it seems. Because of this small crimes are not enforced and many folks don't even pay attention to them any more. Traffic is a perfect example. There seems to be "0" accountability these days. With the way kids are being raised today, it's only going to get worse. We certainly don't want to write anyone a ticket, it might offend them or they might call and make a complaint.

State Parks was, and always has been the "weak" state LE agency. Outside of a select few Parks the agency doesn't want LE Rangers to do LE and write citations. I actually know a LE Ranger who worked in a park where LE by the Rangers was "allowed" and he actually got in trouble for writing too many tickets. Not too many petty/small tickets, but too many tickets in general. State Parks would rather pay the sheriff's office or WDFW to come into the park and write tickets, then they do having their own personnel do so. And it's a reason why several LE Rangers have transferred to WDFW and the Liquor Control Board the last several years, at least with those agencies you can do LE.

If that is the case, then why don't the parks save money and get rid of Parks LEO all together.  Sounds like they are LEO in name only.  Didn't they propose cutting Parks law enforcement totally as an cost saving idea?

There has never been a proposal to totally eliminate Parks LE. There was a proposal to merge all WDFW, Parks, and DNR LE into one agency but you would still have different divisions. As a result of Parks budgets cuts something like two-thirds of Parks LE went from fulltime year round, to seasonal positions, that is all that has changed.

State law gives Parks LE the authority to enforce all laws within Parks, the problem is the mentality of the agency in Olympia, they don't want the friendly Ranger giving someone a citation. They would rather have WDFW, WSP, or an SO do it. Now who do you think costs more to fund, WDFW/WSP/SO or a LE Ranger? Of course the LE Ranger is cheaper. So to totally eliminate Parks LE and contract another agency would cost a lot. Would needs to happen is a mentality change in terms of LE at Parks in Olympia. From what I have heard, things are changing slowly, but they still are not pro-LE.

The proposal was part of the internal parks assessment (not a proposed law).  As a member of a small community with no police, I would rather see our local state park with no on-site LEO, and have a deputy assigned to the area and the park with a cost-share provision.  Save money and cover more of the community.  I've never understood how a park can have their own LEO and a community nearby have none.

Gotcha. You also need to remember is that with WA St Parks the LEO is also the same guy mowing the grass, cleaning the bathrooms, leading tours and so on. I honestly believe that not every park needs an LEO, and Parks is starting to review what parks can "live" without a LEO running them.