Found This Today

[northwesthunter84]

Elk Decoy Poachers - OSP - Game Warden - Oregon State Police

Sorry couldn't get this to link.  I found this today (I know its Oregon) and it just blew my mind.  If you listen to the game warden 30% of the people pulling the trigger don't have a tag.  And people wonder why hunters get a bad rap.  Also I would be interested to see if there would be similar results in Washington.  It makes me sad for those of us that try to do it right. 

[notellumcreek]

They have used deer decoys in washington, I have seen them along hwy 410 on the east side of chinook pass about 10 miles. 2 big buck decoys about 25-30 ft off the hwy. Got me for a second, but as we were driving by it was a little bit more obvious. I never heard if anyone was busted. I like the idea though, definitely gets some of the bad eggs out of the bunch.

[buglebuster]

Disclamer: I'm not saying any poaching/illegal activity is ok! But....  how can they use this to catch poachers? It is a FAKE deer! How can that stand in court if the guy charged with poaching says he knew it was fake and shot it for the hell of it or something along those lines? If he did nothing else illegal I dont see how the charge could stick.. I may sound stupid but thats how II've always thought about these fake stakeouts

[notellumcreek]

Disclamer: I'm not saying any poaching/illegal activity is ok! But....  how can they use this to catch poachers? It is a FAKE deer! How can that stand in court if the guy charged with poaching says he knew it was fake and shot it for the hell of it or something along those lines? If he did nothing else illegal I dont see how the charge could stick.. I may sound stupid but thats how II've always thought about these fake stakeouts

You have a point. I am sure they are thinking at least they can get people with discharging a firearm too close to a maintained road. 
Doesn't look like the video above is on a maintained road but it was showing up too blurry for me to really notice.

[jeffro]

Disclamer: I'm not saying any poaching/illegal activity is ok! But....  how can they use this to catch poachers? It is a FAKE deer! How can that stand in court if the guy charged with poaching says he knew it was fake and shot it for the hell of it or something along those lines? If he did nothing else illegal I don't see how the charge could stick.. I may sound stupid but that's how I've always thought about these fake stakeouts

If you watched the vid,
they were ticketing them for discharging their firearm from the vehicle or from the maintained roadway,
failing to wear hunters orange,
and hunting without proper license's and/ or tags.
All very provable with the captured video.
I'm surprised that there where no DUI's/ warrant arrests to boot. Then again, this vid was only one day of surveillance.

[ICEMAN]

Disclamer: I'm not saying any poaching/illegal activity is ok! But....  how can they use this to catch poachers? It is a FAKE deer! How can that stand in court if the guy charged with poaching says he knew it was fake and shot it for the hell of it or something along those lines? If he did nothing else illegal I dont see how the charge could stick.. I may sound stupid but thats how II've always thought about these fake stakeouts

You have a point. I am sure they are thinking at least they can get people with discharging a firearm too close to a maintained road. 
Doesn't look like the video above is on a maintained road but it was showing up too blurry for me to really notice.

It all goes to the intent of the shooter. Since there are not known fake deer all over the landscape, I am sure that it is easier to prove that the intent was to shoot a live deer or elk.

How could anyone argue that they thought they were shooting a fake deer?  Your suggestion that they can use this as a defense, is a bit of a reach in my opinion. With this mentality, you could basically justify anyone doing anything. I feel that your actions express your intent. You purposely shot a deer.

[trophyhunt]

I've seen fake elk before off the 70rd in green water.  They had 4 bulls together in a place where your headlights would hit perfectly to light up their eyes.  It was a few years ago on the last weekend of the east modern elk season. 

[TheHunt]

Seen a bull on the high side of Hwy 7 off of Alder Lake. 

[Fullabull]

I don't think it's a bad idea. Good way to catch poachers. Otherwise they never would.

[hunterrcc]

The first guys in our state that fought it won on the grounds that it was a target and they knew it was not real and so they shot it.  But since then they have changed the law so you won't get off on that defense.  They put up a lot of fake decoys including cougar up on 410 greenwater area.  I am glad they need to do more of them around everywhere help get some of these dumb *** caught.

[KFhunter]

The 30% number might be a bit skewed in that they know where to put those decoys so it'll get shot the most.

I figure most honest guys will be out of their rigs and hunting or in a camp,  not driving around down low just out of town a ways or in the middle of the night.


Also a "poacher" is not a "hunter" you can't be both you're either one or the other,  so a guy shooting a decoy without a tag is NOT a hunter,  so I take objection to the language that 30% of hunters will shoot that the decoy.  I see you stated 30% of people, that's a lot better.


Yes it's a black eye on hunters, even though it's not hunters shooting at the thing.

[hunterrcc]

I agree I hate that fact that they lump all the shooters as hunters in most stories.  Its like saying the 49ers and Seahawks are the same team because they play football.

The 30% number might be a bit skewed in that they know where to put those decoys so it'll get shot the most.

I figure most honest guys will be out of their rigs and hunting or in a camp,  not driving around down low just out of town a ways or in the middle of the night.


Also a "poacher" is not a "hunter" you can't be both you're either one or the other,  so a guy shooting a decoy without a tag is NOT a hunter,  so I take objection to the language that 30% of hunters will shoot that the decoy.  I see you stated 30% of people, that's a lot better.


Yes it's a black eye on hunters, even though it's not hunters shooting at the thing.

[boneaddict]

I have seen deer and grouse, but never an elk.

[Dhoey07]

The 30% number might be a bit skewed in that they know where to put those decoys so it'll get shot the most.

I figure most honest guys will be out of their rigs and hunting or in a camp,  not driving around down low just out of town a ways or in the middle of the night.


Also a "poacher" is not a "hunter" you can't be both you're either one or the other,  so a guy shooting a decoy without a tag is NOT a hunter,  so I take objection to the language that 30% of hunters will shoot that the decoy.  I see you stated 30% of people, that's a lot better.


Yes it's a black eye on hunters, even though it's not hunters shooting at the thing.

They said that 30% of people that pulled the trigger got citations.  That number would go wayyy down when you couint the people that stopped and looked or saw the decoys and kept driving.  That also means that 70% of shooters didn't get a ticket.

[MIKEXRAY]

I ran into a deer sting 15 years ago in the 501 GMU , entering from Pe ell side.   Fake buck in the clear cut @ night, we were on our way out to dinner.  I did stop the truck and looked with head lights not knowing it was fake,  wardens came out from three sides.  Never got out of the truck and no shoes on either, pretty obvious not out poaching. Checked our licenses, lectured us on lighting wildlife with head lights and on our way. Never seen any other animal, or maybe just missed it.  Was an eye opener,  Not sure they catch the "real" poachers. Just the knuckle heads out hunting and do something stupid. I'm sure the people doing the real poaching are far more cautious then to be out during the night and in regular season to be doing their deeds.

[asl20bball]

koodos to F&G for using them IMHO. Bottom line is don't break the law and you won't get in trouble.

[pianoman9701]

So in answer to the OP's question about "how does this make us look?", it makes law abiding hunters look just fine. You're talking about the actions of would-be poachers and law breakers. Not the actions of good and ethical hunters. I'd help them set up the decoy and then, help them take it down at the end of the day. In WA, in a department rife with politics and BS game management based on public opinion and pressure from the greenies, this is one section that's doing their job well - enforcement.

[bobcat]

In WA, in a department rife with politics and BS game management based on public opinion and pressure from the greenies, this is one section that's doing their job well - enforcement.

 .  Really? 

I take it you haven't read "Operation Cody?"

[pianoman9701]

In WA, in a department rife with politics and BS game management based on public opinion and pressure from the greenies, this is one section that's doing their job well - enforcement.

 .  Really? 

I take it you haven't read "Operation Cody?"

I have read it and you're trying to be argumentative - your favorite pastime. I'm talking about the LEs in the field not enforcement hierarchy.

[Curly]

I just watched the show "Wardens" the other day where they did the sting operation deal with a cow elk with a motorized head.  They got a lot of guys for shooting out of the vehicle, or shooting while leaning against the vehicle and no orange.  Even some guys with no tag.  It was a good episode (they all are really).

Montana (where "Wardens" is filmed) has even more strict laws about shooting from roads, so they really can bust people for not getting all the way outside the road right of way.  One guy did a pretty good job of getting out of the truck and walking all the way to the fenceline and then shooting at the cow by resting on the fence.  They didn't ticket him, but told him they could because technically he wasn't supposed to be shooting from the road side of the fence.

[pianoman9701]

I just watched the show "Wardens" the other day where they did the sting operation deal with a cow elk with a motorized head.  They got a lot of guys for shooting out of the vehicle, or shooting while leaning against the vehicle and no orange.  Even some guys with no tag.  It was a good episode (they all are really).

Montana (where "Wardens" is filmed) has even more strict laws about shooting from roads, so they really can bust people for not getting all the way outside the road right of way.  One guy did a pretty good job of getting out of the truck and walking all the way to the fenceline and then shooting at the cow by resting on the fence.  They didn't ticket him, but told him they could because technically he wasn't supposed to be shooting from the road side of the fence.

I'm impressed by their very professional but easy going nature when they deal with people. The attitude there seems much more "customer service" oriented than a lot of places, like WA and OR. My interactions here have all been very professional, but laid back or friendly are not adjectives I'd use.

[Curly]

 
I hope our LE are watching that show and learn from them.  They seem like really likeable wardens.  (I have encountered a couple wardens in this state that were good too, but its been 20 or more years now).

[pianoman9701]

Like I said, our guys have all been professional - no jerks. They just seem really uptight. The MT wardens seem very down to earth.

[REHJWA]

This season is the most I have ever been checked. I was checked once during deer season , twice during pheasant season , once during duck season  and just the weekend before last clam digging . These were all in differant parts of the state so I would say that a least enforcement is out there. All encounters were positive, and I liked seeing them out here in plain clothes while clam digging.

[pianoman9701]

Several times on the show, the wardens have said "this isn't the end of the world. It's just a ticket and you learned something." Trying to calm someone down and show some empathy. It's a really good trait in an LE.

[KFhunter]

finally got to watch that vid and I'm impressed at the media comments


"this just bugs the heck out of legal hunters"   THANK YOU!

It's nice to hear the distinction from media for once   

[pianoman9701]

Uh-huh. 

[Eli346]

I'm sure that if our LEO's were on tape and knew it was going to be televised they would act much more like the officers on 'Wardens'. As it is they know they aren't on TV so the interactions we have with them are much more 'varied' according to their dispositions and hunter reactions if you know what I mean.

[cryder]

anything that keeps people legal will is alright with me ,one part of it is ,for what we pay and as hard as we work to do it legally,I'm all for it !!some guy pulls up and shoots a elk from the front seat of his vehicle were in can see it !I'm looking for my pen and tag and it wont be to fill out my tag,I'm getting some plate numbers and head to the ranger station,so WATCH YOUR BACK VEHICLE HUNTERS !!,I'm definitely watching

[GregE]

I agree I hate that fact that they lump all the shooters as hunters in most stories. 

The 30% number might be a bit skewed in that they know where to put those decoys so it'll get shot the most.

I figure most honest guys will be out of their rigs and hunting or in a camp,  not driving around down low just out of town a ways or in the middle of the night.


Also a "poacher" is not a "hunter" you can't be both you're either one or the other,  so a guy shooting a decoy without a tag is NOT a hunter,  so I take objection to the language that 30% of hunters will shoot that the decoy.  I see you stated 30% of people, that's a lot better.


Yes it's a black eye on hunters, even though it's not hunters shooting at the thing.

Well stated!!   

[101521]

 

Uh-huh. 

Agree with you Piano...interesting video.  I too have only had positive interactions with GW's

[heavy hauler]

can you shoot it if you get off the road and have a tag?  better yet, if you shoot it , can you keep it?

[rsarkks]

I heard a story in Oregon where a couple guys got out of their truck, went up the hill, and put some rounds into the decoy bull. The game wardens came out of the woods waving their hands and shouting. The guys had legal tags, got out of their truck and were off the road so the wardens did not ticket them, just asked them to stop shooting the decoy.

[PolarBear]

My 14 year old daughter is into builing robotics and is an avid hunter.  She saw a couple of shows like this and wants to design more lifelike robotic deer and elk to catch poachers.  She also says that she wants to be a WDFW officer so she can use these decoys.     She is already taking steps to make it happen.  I love these decoy set ups and have zero sympathy for the folks who get popped.  When I hear people trying to justify others actions by saying "it's just a decoy, they didn't do anything illegal" the first though that comes to mind is that they themselves are prone to bend the rules a bit.  I really wish that they would use these set ups more often, they are an awesome tool!

[TikkaT3-270Shortmag]

While I was interning at Fish and Wildlife I would see them push shopping carts full of guns that were confiscated from poachers.  They had a warehouse and a room that was full of them and they would honestly move them around in shopping carts lol.