Modern Muzzleloader, a little to far ?

[MIKEXRAY]

Was watching a hunting show this morning and the guy had a muzzleloader with electronic ignition. Had a flashing led on top of gun to let know it is ready. Had scope, and sighted in at 250 yds ? Did not seem like a primitive weapon. I know they are not legal in Washington, was wondering on other opinions. By the way I am now an archer after muzzleloader hunting for 6 years with a hawken. I got out of muzzleloader because season, game and areas lost each year. My gun did not fire occasionally also which I counted as part of the game.  I do shoot a new compound with latest technology, so not a traditionalist. I agree with the rules in washington, no cross bow, limits on bows, limits on muzzleloader. Seems like the gun I saw goes a little past the line in my opinions.Your thoughts ?

[Intruder]

I think it is BS. 

[Sagedawg]

 Yeah Id say. I love to hunt with my muzzy's. I have a couple sidelocks and a couple of inlines. One of the reasons I got into it was to escape the crowds, and to add a challange. Part of the challage is knowing your gun, and allowing for the inevitable, for the most part they go off when they are supposed to, sometimes they dont.  But come on electronic ingintion? Whats next a heat seeking bullet? If you wanted to hunt with a gun like that, buy a modern tag. I call BS as well.


  Sage

[CP]

If there was some advantage given to muzzleloader hunters in seasons or bag limits I could see reason to limit technology.  But in WA there is not, in fact ML hunters get the short end of the stick with shorter seasons, less draw tags, and less open units.

That being said I think both bows and muzzleloaders have advanced too far to be called “primitive” weapons.  A “primitive” weapon does not have modern optics, electronic devices of any kind, synthetic materials, or modern propellants.

[HawkenBob]

I think with Wa its more about hunting a season when Bulls will respond (im talking Elk). When you can get em in close like an archery shooter but still have a bit more effective range.

I chose ML for the up close and personal and the less hunters. Its the whole challenge.

For a guy in the midwest its about having another method besides a shot gun. I just think if a ML does have a scope and is capable and reliable enough it should have to be hunted in a general season.

I suspect many of these 209'rs with 2600 FPS+ easily out perform any slug gun. I know if I lived in Ill were my relatives live Id choose an Encore 50 over the slug barrel.

In washington, when hunting during rut, traditional methods should only apply. Not that you cant use an inline. But I like our laws regarding the ML configs. If it changed, ML season would be even more of a zoo and not much of a reason would exsist to even warrent it IMO.

[.54 THUNDERHAWK]

Amen HAWKENBOB....just give us a couple of units to choose from that already haven't been run ragged.  I'll still take the Ryderwood but keep the bow hunters out in the early season.

[Ridgerunner]

I've thought long and hard about getting into MZ hunting but have yet to do so in this state becuase of the overally restrictive regulations and the lack of seasons and GMU's to hunt and special permit opps.  This group definately gets the short end of the stick.  I'm ok with not having 209 ignition allowed but feel the bullet restrictions are a little much.  If there are some changes made for teh next three year cycle at some point I will be giving MZ hunting a try, it looks like a blast.

[M_ray]

You guy's can call it B.S. but Hawkenbob touched on some of it ... Keep in mind some states like Michigan the entire lower half of the state is shotgun/muzzleloader or bow only, NO FIREARM season. They are trying to limit the range to under 250 yards because of the population, so it has more to do with that than the limits on technology. If you cut out one method entirely shouldn't they get as much technology as possible on the two they have available?

[HawkenBob]

Not only is it a population thing but more so lack of bullet stopping or limiting distance types of geography. The reason the yardage limit is set is to keep stray bullets from flying miles instead of a couple hundred yards.

I suspect as these guns get more and more lethal at longer distances, as well more reliable, they will start banning certain ones or put weight restrictions on the projectiles. a 160 grn 30-06 bullet can fly 2500 yards at a 5 degree angle...

[Little Fish]

Feel free to disagree with me, but I think the restrictions they have put in place on legal muzzleloaders in the state of Washington are reasonably effective at limiting shooting distances and handicapping modern muzzle loaders. For example (someone else pointed this out) when you get out to the longer distances open or peep sights will almost block out the entire target area on a deer.

[CP]

Mississippi and Louisiana both allow “primitive” breach loading rifles in their “primitive” season.  A handi rifle or an Encore in 45/70, .44 mag or .444 marlin (scoped or course) meet the criteria for a “primitive” rifle.  I believe the criteria includes single shot, must have an exposed hammer and be similar to something developed prior to 1864? 

I ran across this while looking for a single shot .444 Marlin, seems they are in such demand that they are out of stock nation wide.  (wasn’t the .444 Marlin developed in the mid 1960s?)

So, it’s all relative.

[rasbo]

keep it simple,i

[MeatDown]

Leave it the way it is... simple... and then get close and personal...

Gotta love a 32 yard shot... once the smoke clears..

Shawn

[Curly]

MD, that is a cool picture.  I agree w/ the way the rules are know, too.

[Longbowz]

Guess I see it a little differently.  For one the electronic ignition on a muzzleloader is probably going to be about as popular as the electronic ignition was to modern firearms.  It won't last.  What happens when the battery dies?  It won't be around long. 

Whether your gun is a traditional or an inline the ballistics are same.  You can't shoot further based on the guns design.
209 primers and enclosed ignitions don't change anything other then allowing us here in Washington have access to the 95 % of the muzzleloaders made that we presently can't use here because of the goofy regulations.  Besides whats wrong with a more reliable ignition?  It doesn't change the hunt.

For heavens sake why can't we use a scope on a muzzleloader in this state?  It doesn't make for a longer shot, It just helps the guys over 50 who have trouble with iron sights make a more sure ethical kill within the range of a muzzleloader.  It doesn't make it shoot farther.  Those guys on TV making 200 yard plus shots few in number.  Besides they only show you the successful shots.  TV is business so what you see isn't always as it was during the hunt.  If a guy is going to make a 200 yard shot the design of the gun has little to do with it - I've seen it.

This is simply my opinion and if someone disagrees that's OK.  But too often we hear how some change in the equipment will ruin the season, but no one ever backs it up with proven facts.  It usually just 3rd person stories from their neighbors, brothers, cousin or some myth with no basis in fact. Usually it's just an attempt to keep people out of "my" hunt.  Problem is if few people support an activity it very tends to never get better. Ever wonder why muzzleloader hunting never has seasons as good as modern rifles or archers?  It's all a numbers game when the seasons are set. More participation means more clout with the game department plain and simple.

Have fun