‘The wolf tapeworm’

[villageidiot]

This tapeworm is a real asset to the pro wolfers.  They kill multitudes of the big game thus eliminating hunting and will infect a few rural people and hunters too whom they despise.  They will never catch the tapeworm because they don't eat wild game.  They might even get to see a few of us Yosemite SAMs die from this and they can dance on our graves. You gotta give them credit for being brilliant but if you ever even doubted there was a Satan you should not now even have a doubt In your mind Satan is alive and well.  He has clearly shown his face with this wolf introduction.l

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Good grief Sitka, the common tapeworm in dogs do not cause cysts on the liver, lungs, or brain. That might possibly be the least intelligent post you've ever made on this forum. As hound hunters our dogs are exposed to wolf feces every year as they track cougar and bear in wolf country, this is something to be concerned about. My son has a 2 year old child who pets and plays with our dogs. Echinococcosis granulosus is a far nastier and dangerous parasite than common tapeworms found in the creatures you mention! This is a valid reason to be concerned about the dogs and ourselves being exposed to these wolf worms on a regular basis. Anyone with pets or stock dogs in wolf country should have the same concerns, yet WDFW and other agencies have failed to warn the people of the dangers.

Again, I have to help with your education.

http://www.dfw.state.or.us/wildlife/health_program/docs/ParasiteFlyer.pdf

Money quote..... "Hydatid cysts were found in domestic sheep from Idaho sent to California for slaughter in the late 1960s and early 1970s. In Oregon, hydatid cysts were documented in a deer carcass from Grant County in 1977. So, the parasite
is possibly maintained in wild coyote and fox populations in our state."

and "The tapeworm has a worldwide distribution with two recognized “biotypes.” The ‘northern’ biotype that circulates
between canids (wolf, dog) and wild ungulates (moose, caribou, reindeer, deer and elk) is primarily found in northern latitudes above the 45th parallel. The ‘southern’ biotype circulates between dogs and domestic ungulates, especially sheep. It is endemic and common in most sheep-raising areas of the world."

So the dreaded Hydatid cysts were present in Idaho back in the late 60's and early 70's and they didn't have wolves to spread them around. And I believe all of Washington and northern Idaho and most of Montana are north of the 45th parallel so they are in prime "northern biotype" country. Moose, caribou, reindeer, deer and elk, are just as responsible for the spread of tapeworms as wolves. Dogs even more so.

But there's even more! 

"Can humans get infected with Echinococcus granulosus?

Humans are not a natural host of the parasite, but in rare cases can be infected by ingesting eggs from canid feces, usually from a domestic dog. In humans, hydatid cysts usually develop in the liver or lungs, and there are several treatments for the disease. Throughout the world, most human cases occur in indigenous people with close contact with infected dogs. The hydatid cysts that can form in intermediate hosts (ungulates like deer and elk) are not infectious to humans."

Gee Dale, that ruins your whole hypothesis....... People get the cysts "usually from a domestic dog"  The cysts in deer and elk are "not infectious to humans" "most human cases occur in indigenous people with close contact with infected dogs".

Go ahead and tell me again how intelligent my post wasn't.

Oh wait, there's even more.............

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/wildlife/diseaseechinococcuswolves.pdf

Money quotes............  "Human infection with the domestic biotype of E. granulosus is considered to be more severe than the northern biotype (McManus et al. 2002), largely due to the potential for brain involvement."

Gee that "common tapeworm" variety of tapeworm is more dangerous than that "Northern biotype" you're so afraid of.

And...... "hinococcus multilocularis has a two host life cycle with canids as the definitive host for adult
worms and rodents as the intermediate host for the larval worms. The adults are small and live in the
small intestine of dogs, foxes and cats. The eggs are passed in the feces and accidently ingested by small
rodents, primarily mice and voles, in which the eggs hatch and migrate to the abdominal cavity and form
multicompartmental hydatid cysts called alveolar or multilocular cysts. "

So dang, those scary sounding hydatid cysts come from the old "common tapeworms" as you call them, too.  But when you get all your information from websites like "Lobo Watch", you're bound to end up misinformed.

[RG]

Interesting..  Here's the deal, the cysts are showing up in big game all of a sudden.  People who have made their living in the business of finding and then field dressing big game animals for clients for decades, as well as people who have hunted and field dressed their own big game animals for decades have never seen or heard of cysts in big game animals until recently.  I've field dressed quite a few but a very small number compared to others I know in British Columbia, Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho who have fed their families and the families of their guides, wranglers, and packers for years in this business.  I also know that, as far as wolves are concerned, the possibility of them spreading tapeworms is only one of the problems they bring.  If you are such a fan of them then move to somewhere in rural Idaho or Montana and rub elbows with people who live in wolf country every day of their lives.  Try your theories on them and you will find that they have first hand knowledge, not internet knowledge.  Your ideas aren't going to be very well received there, in fact they might get a little hostile when you tell them wolves haven't caused any new problems that foxes and coyotes hadn't already caused in their community.  Just sayin..

[AspenBud]

If you are such a fan of them then move to somewhere in rural Idaho or Montana and rub elbows with people who live in wolf country every day of their lives.  Try your theories on them and you will find that they have first hand knowledge, not internet knowledge.

     Now that's funny given all of the internet expert material that gets floated on here regularly from the anti wolf side. I'll bet 20 board certified veterinarians with decades of experience could come on here and tell you that this tapeworm is not a big deal and you'd still reach out to skinny moose,lobo watch, or an editorial from Joe Bob's blog to try and refute them.

[JLS]

rub elbows with people who live in wolf country every day of their lives.  Try your theories on them and you will find that they have first hand knowledge, not internet knowledge. 

I always find it amusing the assumptions that are made that anyone who disagrees must not have any real connection.  Well, some of us do.  I'm sure though that my connections are not near as knowledgeable and as important as yours.  Otherwise, they too would know the "truth".

[DoubleJ]

So, if an elk or deer is infected, as long as I only eat the meat and not the organs, and since the cysts haven't passed through a carnivore and ended up in it's poop, I'm safe, right?

[RG]

I don't really put a lot of stock in people who are "important" or have fancy titles. I had a past life where that was the case. The people I'm talking about here are honest hard working good people with no hidden agenda. They dont graze in anybody elses pocket and nobody is in theirs. A lot of them are probably ignorant by your standards because they may not have Facebook and twitter accounts. They make their living in rural areas and grew up in families that did the same. Some didnt even go to college by gosh. They never heard of Lobo Watch or Skinny Moose or any of the pro anti special interest drivel.  What they know and what they've told me comes from a lifetime of first hand observation and experience and, interestingly enough, they don't think wolves have made anything better. Read your Internet all you want because somebody on there will give you "facts" to support any position you care to take. It's all interesting but first hand observation carries more weight for me personally. Believe what you want though, that's totally your choice just don't ignore the opinion of people who make their living from the land in wolf country.  I can assure you they know more about what is going on with the animals in their area than you or I or any city-born college educated biologist if that biologist doesn't spend months out of every year in the back country watching the game herd.

[wolfbait]

Interesting..  Here's the deal, the cysts are showing up in big game all of a sudden.  People who have made their living in the business of finding and then field dressing big game animals for clients for decades, as well as people who have hunted and field dressed their own big game animals for decades have never seen or heard of cysts in big game animals until recently.  I've field dressed quite a few but a very small number compared to others I know in British Columbia, Wyoming, Montana, and Idaho who have fed their families and the families of their guides, wranglers, and packers for years in this business.  I also know that, as far as wolves are concerned, the possibility of them spreading tapeworms is only one of the problems they bring.  If you are such a fan of them then move to somewhere in rural Idaho or Montana and rub elbows with people who live in wolf country every day of their lives.  Try your theories on them and you will find that they have first hand knowledge, not internet knowledge.  Your ideas aren't going to be very well received there, in fact they might get a little hostile when you tell them wolves haven't caused any new problems that foxes and coyotes hadn't already caused in their community.  Just sayin..

A perfect it example, of what once was and what has happened since the illegal wolf introduction. I believe IDFG passed a new rule that hunters should not open the gut cavity up anymore because of these cysts.

[Northway]

I don't really put a lot of stock in people who are "important" or have fancy titles. I had a past life where that was the case. The people I'm talking about here are honest hard working good people with no hidden agenda. They dont graze in anybody elses pocket and nobody is in theirs. A lot of them are probably ignorant by your standards because they may not have Facebook and twitter accounts. They make their living in rural areas and grew up in families that did the same. Some didnt even go to college by gosh. They never heard of Lobo Watch or Skinny Moose or any of the pro anti special interest drivel.  What they know and what they've told me comes from a lifetime of first hand observation and experience and, interestingly enough, they don't think wolves have made anything better. Read your Internet all you want because somebody on there will give you "facts" to support any position you care to take. It's all interesting but first hand observation carries more weight for me personally. Believe what you want though, that's totally your choice just don't ignore the opinion of people who make their living from the land in wolf country.  I can assure you they know more about what is going on with the animals in their area than you or I or any city-born college educated biologist if that biologist doesn't spend months out of every year in the back country watching the game herd.

So aside from this stuff about how city people are annoying, uninformed, never spend any time in the woods and rural folks are all the salt of the earth, what do you propose is a proper level of education WDFW could provide on EG?

What is the proper level of notification/education vs. the risk?

[bearpaw]

So dang, those scary sounding hydatid cysts come from the old "common tapeworms" as you call them, too.  But when you get all your information from websites like "Lobo Watch", you're bound to end up misinformed.

I'm not surprised to see you react so passionately. Your devotion to your cause of protecting wolves against any public opposition is commendable, even if irresponsible.

You attempted to infer that common dog tapeworms were Echinococcus granulosus, that was false and I corrected you.

Now you imply that Echinococcus multilocularis is what this topic is about, but again I'll correct you. This topic is about Echinococcus granulosus which has been proven at WSU to be prevalent in 2/3 of wolves tested from Idaho and Montana.

I am familiar with the different forms of Echinococcosis and it's no secret that Echinococcus multilocularis is common in sheep and dogs, especially on other continents. But this topic is about Echinococcus granulosus which is being carried around the countryside by 2/3 of the wolves in the northern Rockies region, including Washington. The concern is that these wide ranging wolves may spread Echinococcus granulosus and that it may become more prevalent in wildlife, dogs, and possibly humans.

I would hope that agencies would inform the people of this dangerous parasite and how to protect themselves from infection in hopes that Echinococcosis does not become more common. I'm very sorry Sitka Blacktail does not see the value in preventative actions and chooses to instead deny wolves might spread this parasite even though WSU has confirmed a 2/3 rate of infection in wolves tested.

For anyone else who wants to know more about wolves and Echinococcus granulosus (wolf worms) here is some additional info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echinococcosis

Echinococcosis
Echinococcosis, also called hydatid disease, hydatidosis, or echinococcal disease, is a parasitic disease of tapeworms of the Echinococcus type. People get two main types of disease, cystic echinococcosis and alveolar echinococcosis. There are two less common forms polycystic echinococcosis and unicystic echinococcosis. The disease often starts without symptoms and this may last for year. The symptoms and signs that occur depend on the cysts location and size. Alveolar disease usually begins in the liver but can spread to other parts of the body such as the lungs or brain. When the liver is affected the person may have abdominal pain, weight loss, and turn yellow. Lung disease may cause pain in the chest, shortness of breath and a cough.[1]

The disease is spread when food or water that contains the eggs of the parasite is eaten or by close contact with an infected animal.[1] The eggs are released in the stool of meat eating animals that are infected by the parasite.[2] Commonly infected animals include: dogs, foxes and wolves.[2] For these animals to become infected they must eat the organs of an animal that contains the cysts such as sheep or rodents.[2] The type of disease which occurs in people depends on the type of Echinococcus causing the infection. Diagnosis is usually by ultrasound though computer tomography (CT) or magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) may also be used. Blood tests looking for antibodies against the parasite may be helpful as may biopsy.[1]

Prevention of cystic disease is by treating dogs that may carry the disease and vaccination of sheep. Treatment is often difficult. The cystic disease may be drained through the skin followed by medication.[1] Sometimes this type of disease is just watched.[3] The alveolar type often needs surgery followed by medications.[1] The medication used is albendazole which may be needed for years.[1][3] The alveolar disease may result in death.[1]

The disease occurs in most areas of the world and currently affects about one million people. In some areas of South America, Africa, and Asia up to 10% of the certain populations are affected.[1] As of 2010 it caused about 1200 death down from 2000 in 1990.[4] The economic cost of the disease is estimated to be around 3 billion USD a year. It can affect other animals such as pigs, cows and horses.[1]

http://www.outdoorhub.com/opinions/the-future-of-north-american-wolves-interview-with-dr-valerius-geist/
The Future of North American Wolves, Interview with Dr. Valerius Geist

Dr. Valerius Geist has several decades of experience studying wildlife and has developed a seven-stage habituation pattern for wolves when wild food runs out.

All across North America, efforts are underway to restore wolf populations. Much of the press has painted a rosy picture of co-existing with wolves. For another opinion, I talked with ethologist Dr. Valerius Geist. Val has published 17 books on wildlife and large mammals (humans included) and served 27 years as a professor at the University of Calgary.

During some 50 years in the field, he had observed wolves on many occasions. “My early experiences with mainland wolves indicated that they were inquisitive, intelligent, but shy and cautious. During my academic career and four years into retirement I thought of wolves as harmless, echoing the words of many North American colleagues. I was wrong!”

He changed his mind when he retired to Vancouver Island in 1995, where he and his wife found themselves living with wolves as neighbors. He relayed some of his first-hand experience with them to me:

His second prediction was on hydatid disease:

The most important thing about the fate of wolves is hydatid disease. The threat scenario involves ranch dogs feasting on gut piles left by hunters or winter-killed elk and deer whose lungs and liver are infected with hydatid cysts. Deer and elk infected with cysts try to crowd in on private ranches trying to get away from wolves. A ranch dog gulping down the cysts will have mature tape worms in his gut within seven weeks or so and will then pass the deadly eggs in the ranch yard, kennel, veranda, and so on. People will bring infective eggs on their shoes into the house. Carpets and furniture will soon be hosting live, infective hydatid eggs. Children will be specially affected. Cysts take about a decade to mature. I will take at least another decade for cysts to grow to orange or grapefruit size in people. Nobody is facing up to the disease threat.

He added, “I do not think wolves have a happy future in the Lower 48.”

I agree with RG, sometimes you need to live with the wolves to become more educated about them. 

[bearpaw]

What is the proper level of notification/education vs. the risk?

I'll address the constructive portion of your post:

WDFW should have a warning on their website and in the hunting regulations warning hunters, trappers, ranchers, taxidermists, and other higher risk groups of the prevelance, potential dangers, and how to avoid infection by Echinococcus granulosus.

[bearpaw]

So, if an elk or deer is infected, as long as I only eat the meat and not the organs, and since the cysts haven't passed through a carnivore and ended up in it's poop, I'm safe, right?

I don't feel safe telling you what to eat from an infected animal. Another concern is that you also protect the family dog from exposure to infected animals or their feces.

The infected moose liver I posted the photos of was destroyed. The moose meat was eaten by the hunter and his family, I just hope they cooked it all well done. I assume, but do not know for certain that cooking the meat well done makes it safe to eat.

[idahohuntr]

http://www.fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/wildlife/?getPage=209

Here ya go. 

[bearpaw]

http://www.fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/wildlife/?getPage=209

Here ya go. 

 

Thanks, Idaho for Wildlife had been requesting that IDFG put out this info for several years, glad to see it posted. WDFW is still in some type of denial about wolf worms. Thanks for the link. Hopefully some people in WDFW will see and read the Idaho info and take similar action.

[RG]

Northway. Im amused at your summation of my comments. I agree with Bearpaw about notifying the public. My point has been dont minimize the opinion of experienced people. They have a lot to offer and in some subjects they know more than the people publishing stuff on the Internet. Their opinion about liver cysts is accurate, they are a new thing. Clearly that offended you but I've found it to be true.