While Big Game Herds Continue To Dwindle - Federal & State Wildlife Agencies Hid

[wolfbait]

While Big Game Herds Continue To Dwindle - Federal & State Wildlife Agencies Hide Real Wolf Numbers 
http://www.lobowatch.org/adminclient/WolfControl6/go

[idahohuntr]

I bet this terrifies the hell out of you wolf nut jobs doesn't it?  Wolf numbers starting to decrease or even level off and yet there is still a lot of elk hunting opportunity...Wyoming is having record elk harvests...Idaho and Montana continue to provide abundant OTC opportunities.  How will you continue to dupe less informed hunters into donating money to all your get rich quick schemes if they start to realize all your bs hysteria about elk hunting being over is just, well, bs.    I think its time for you to find a new government conspiracy to milk for some quick $$$...this wolf thing is probably going to dry up soon.  Although, this could be good news for enviro whack jobs...their fringe base will be led to believe the government is starting to kill off all the wolves and therefore they need to donate $$.  Its sad to see what all these clowns on both extremes will do for money...really makes prostitution look like a noble profession.

[KFhunter]

I don't think the wolf thing will "dry up" in WA where we can't trap, shoot or hunt wolves.

ID is a success story because they're killing *a lot* of wolves and folks like you try to twist Idaho's ability to maintain decent Elk hunting in some areas(by killing so many wolves) to show that wolves don't have the effect "we" anticipated.


left unchecked they'll play hell.  I don't know why anyone would debate that 

[WAcoyotehunter]

I don't think the wolf thing will "dry up" in WA where we can't trap, shoot or hunt wolves.

ID is a success story because they're killing *a lot* of wolves and folks like you try to twist Idaho's ability to maintain decent Elk hunting in some areas(by killing so many wolves) to show that wolves don't have the effect "we" anticipated.

The predicted effect was a total loss of hunting opportunity, total loss of game herds, "predator pit", and wolves killing people with mundane regularity. 

We have not seen any of those things.  In contrast to what many on here believe (spout...) a managed wolf population can exist on the landscape without the doomsday scenario that many like to ramble on about.  They are going to have an impact-no doubt about it- but "no wolves" is not an option for Washington.  We are going to have to deal with them.

WA is getting closer to managing wolves.  Hopefully our side (hunters) are prepared to make an intelligent argument for hunting as the primary management tool.  I'm not sure we are, based on the majority of posts in the wolf section of this forum.

[wolfbait]

I don't think the wolf thing will "dry up" in WA where we can't trap, shoot or hunt wolves.

ID is a success story because they're killing *a lot* of wolves and folks like you try to twist Idaho's ability to maintain decent Elk hunting in some areas(by killing so many wolves) to show that wolves don't have the effect "we" anticipated.

The predicted effect was a total loss of hunting opportunity, total loss of game herds, "predator pit", and wolves killing people with mundane regularity. 

We have not seen any of those things.  In contrast to what many on here believe (spout...) a managed wolf population can exist on the landscape without the doomsday scenario that many like to ramble on about.  They are going to have an impact-no doubt about it- but "no wolves" is not an option for Washington.  We are going to have to deal with them.

WA is getting closer to managing wolves.  Hopefully our side (hunters) are prepared to make an intelligent argument for hunting as the primary management tool.  I'm not sure we are, based on the majority of posts in the wolf section of this forum.

Maybe you could give all of us an estimate on how close we are to managing wolves Wacoyote? How many more years will we have to wait for WDFW to confirm the rest of the BP's?

Tell us what happens when wolves run out of prey? Do they just head off to another county? Or do they start killing more livestock etc..? What happens when a state game agencies protects predators? How long will it take for WDFW to recognize that the uncontrolled predators are having an impact on the game herds and will they then start managing predators or will they shut down hunting in those areas?

[WAcoyotehunter]

I don't know how long it will take for WA to be ready to manage the wolf population.  I don't think we are there right now, the wolves are not recovered and the state is still scrambling to react to the population increases.  I guess it will be a few years before the state has to start to seriously think about killing wolves for the sake of the herds. 

I do not believe that the state is "hiding" any wolf packs or BP's.  I do believe that they are unable to find them all.  There are a couple up this way that should probably be counted, but are not on the states list yet.  They are on the radar though, and the WDFW will get them caught and collared one of these days.

I don't think the WDFW will shut down hunting in any of the areas due to predators, I'm not sure why that would even be a concern....

Wolves are not going to mean the "end of hunting" in WA, they are likely to cause some change to the ungulate behavior and decrease in the populations.  The fact remains, if hunters intend to be a part of the management scheme we better have a solid, intelligent position.  Torches and pitchforks are not going to get hunters any traction.

[CAMPMEAT]

I don't know how long it will take for WA to be ready to manage the wolf population.  I don't think we are there right now, the wolves are not recovered and the state is still scrambling to react to the population increases.  I guess it will be a few years before the state has to start to seriously think about killing wolves for the sake of the herds. 

I do not believe that the state is "hiding" any wolf packs or BP's.  I do believe that they are unable to find them all.  There are a couple up this way that should probably be counted, but are not on the states list yet.  They are on the radar though, and the WDFW will get them caught and collared one of these days.

I don't think the WDFW will shut down hunting in any of the areas due to predators, I'm not sure why that would even be a concern....

Wolves are not going to mean the "end of hunting" in WA, they are likely to cause some change to the ungulate behavior and decrease in the populations.  The fact remains, if hunters intend to be a part of the management scheme we better have a solid, intelligent position.  Torches and pitchforks are not going to get hunters any traction.

Your box is full of msgs........

[snowpack]

I don't know how long it will take for WA to be ready to manage the wolf population.  I don't think we are there right now, the wolves are not recovered and the state is still scrambling to react to the population increases.  I guess it will be a few years before the state has to start to seriously think about killing wolves for the sake of the herds. 

I do not believe that the state is "hiding" any wolf packs or BP's.  I do believe that they are unable to find them all.  There are a couple up this way that should probably be counted, but are not on the states list yet.  They are on the radar though, and the WDFW will get them caught and collared one of these days.

I don't think the WDFW will shut down hunting in any of the areas due to predators, I'm not sure why that would even be a concern....

Wolves are not going to mean the "end of hunting" in WA, they are likely to cause some change to the ungulate behavior and decrease in the populations.  The fact remains, if hunters intend to be a part of the management scheme we better have a solid, intelligent position.  Torches and pitchforks are not going to get hunters any traction.

There are some smaller elk herds that right now are permit only due to size.  It won't take much for the wolves to end those special permits.
Also, even when/if management becomes an option, there are westside herds that tend to be in proximity to land that I can't ever imagine any really effective wolf control occurring on.  The herds in the North Puget Sound area close enough to North Cascades NP that wolf measures will probably just be symbolic.  The herds in the South Sound have Mt Rainer NP.  The herds on the Olympic Peninsula have Olympic NP.  I would think it would be rather unlikely to have wolves brought to a managed number, when they will be doing whatever they want in those parks.

[KFhunter]

I don't know how long it will take for WA to be ready to manage the wolf population.  I don't think we are there right now, the wolves are not recovered and the state is still scrambling to react to the population increases.  I guess it will be a few years before the state has to start to seriously think about killing wolves for the sake of the herds. 

I do not believe that the state is "hiding" any wolf packs or BP's.  I do believe that they are unable to find them all.  There are a couple up this way that should probably be counted, but are not on the states list yet.  They are on the radar though, and the WDFW will get them caught and collared one of these days.

I don't think the WDFW will shut down hunting in any of the areas due to predators, I'm not sure why that would even be a concern....

Wolves are not going to mean the "end of hunting" in WA, they are likely to cause some change to the ungulate behavior and decrease in the populations.  The fact remains, if hunters intend to be a part of the management scheme we better have a solid, intelligent position.  Torches and pitchforks are not going to get hunters any traction.

"One of these days" isn't going to cut it.   Wolf introduction, reintroduction depending on the camp you're in has got to be the biggest thing to happen to WA's big game since, well since WDFW has existed.   It should be job #1 to document these wolves but they aren't doing it.

It's obvious WDFW is going to have a "hands off" approach to wolves and I can't abide by that.

[buckfvr]

I don't know how long it will take for WA to be ready to manage the wolf population.  I don't think we are there right now, the wolves are not recovered and the state is still scrambling to react to the population increases.  I guess it will be a few years before the state has to start to seriously think about killing wolves for the sake of the herds. 

I do not believe that the state is "hiding" any wolf packs or BP's.  I do believe that they are unable to find them all.  There are a couple up this way that should probably be counted, but are not on the states list yet.  They are on the radar though, and the WDFW will get them caught and collared one of these days.

I don't think the WDFW will shut down hunting in any of the areas due to predators, I'm not sure why that would even be a concern....

Wolves are not going to mean the "end of hunting" in WA, they are likely to cause some change to the ungulate behavior and decrease in the populations.  The fact remains, if hunters intend to be a part of the management scheme we better have a solid, intelligent position.  Torches and pitchforks are not going to get hunters any traction.

"One of these days" isn't going to cut it.   Wolf introduction, reintroduction depending on the camp you're in has got to be the biggest thing to happen to WA's big game since, well since WDFW has existed.   It should be job #1 to document these wolves but they aren't doing it.

It's obvious WDFW is going to have a "hands off" approach to wolves and I can't abide by that.

    All honesty and transparency cast aside in favor of meeting the agenda of special interest groups.

[wolfbait]

I don't know how long it will take for WA to be ready to manage the wolf population.  I don't think we are there right now, the wolves are not recovered and the state is still scrambling to react to the population increases.  I guess it will be a few years before the state has to start to seriously think about killing wolves for the sake of the herds. 

I do not believe that the state is "hiding" any wolf packs or BP's.  I do believe that they are unable to find them all.  There are a couple up this way that should probably be counted, but are not on the states list yet.  They are on the radar though, and the WDFW will get them caught and collared one of these days.

I don't think the WDFW will shut down hunting in any of the areas due to predators, I'm not sure why that would even be a concern....

Wolves are not going to mean the "end of hunting" in WA, they are likely to cause some change to the ungulate behavior and decrease in the populations.  The fact remains, if hunters intend to be a part of the management scheme we better have a solid, intelligent position.  Torches and pitchforks are not going to get hunters any traction.

I know they are not hiding any wolf packs, as Okanogan county residents have seen several, which WDFW continue to ignore or claim to be part of the lookout pack. As far as WDFW not shutting down hunting how far do you think they will let the game herds drop before they decide on some kind of action to remedy the decline? Once agin will they start managing predators? Look at the Lolo elk herd as an example, will WDFW continue to pretend that WA wolves are a different wolf and do study after study?

Do you think when wolves run low on prey they will just move to a different county, or will they start to kill more livestock?

I remember the wolf working group, which was stacked with pro-wolf people, I don't think WDFW really care what the hunters, ranchers etc. think, after all look at WDFW's thirty year Wildlands plan,  they don't mention anything about hunting or hunters.

[4fletch]

I find it hard to believe the gov. Would lie to us. By the time wa figures that we have enough wolves it will be to late too many elk will be long gone

[timberfaller]

  Government LIE to us?

[bearpaw]

I bet this terrifies the hell out of you wolf nut jobs doesn't it?  Wolf numbers starting to decrease or even level off and yet there is still a lot of elk hunting opportunity...Wyoming is having record elk harvests...Idaho and Montana continue to provide abundant OTC opportunities.  How will you continue to dupe less informed hunters into donating money to all your get rich quick schemes if they start to realize all your bs hysteria about elk hunting being over is just, well, bs.    I think its time for you to find a new government conspiracy to milk for some quick $$$...this wolf thing is probably going to dry up soon.  Although, this could be good news for enviro whack jobs...their fringe base will be led to believe the government is starting to kill off all the wolves and therefore they need to donate $$.  Its sad to see what all these clowns on both extremes will do for money...really makes prostitution look like a noble profession.

 

What in the heck are you talking about, exactly the opposite is true. Millions have been spent by the US Government, state agencies, there are millions in documented livestock losses, and losses of hunter opportunity have cost local economies millions in Idaho and Montana. Most people simply wanted wolves managed so our quality of life, livestock and pets, big game herds, and local Washington economies don't suffer the same fate that's been documented in some areas of Idaho and Montana where wolves were allowed to overpopulate.

Make no mistake, the people of Idaho have reduced the wolf population in some wolf impacted areas and that's specifically why more elk and deer are surviving in those areas, yes, herds are beginning to recover in some wolf impacted areas, this is due to the activists who have worked hard for wolf management, I'm happy to see the fruits of their success in countering the wolfers.

[bearpaw]

I don't know how long it will take for WA to be ready to manage the wolf population.  I don't think we are there right now, the wolves are not recovered and the state is still scrambling to react to the population increases.  I guess it will be a few years before the state has to start to seriously think about killing wolves for the sake of the herds. 

I do not believe that the state is "hiding" any wolf packs or BP's.  I do believe that they are unable to find them all.  There are a couple up this way that should probably be counted, but are not on the states list yet.  They are on the radar though, and the WDFW will get them caught and collared one of these days.

I don't think the WDFW will shut down hunting in any of the areas due to predators, I'm not sure why that would even be a concern....

Wolves are not going to mean the "end of hunting" in WA, they are likely to cause some change to the ungulate behavior and decrease in the populations.  The fact remains, if hunters intend to be a part of the management scheme we better have a solid, intelligent position.  Torches and pitchforks are not going to get hunters any traction.

"One of these days" isn't going to cut it.   Wolf introduction, reintroduction depending on the camp you're in has got to be the biggest thing to happen to WA's big game since, well since WDFW has existed.   It should be job #1 to document these wolves but they aren't doing it.

It's obvious WDFW is going to have a "hands off" approach to wolves and I can't abide by that.

Unfortunately there are some people that I think are a little naïve to the political climate in Washington. While Idaho and Montana are working to reduce the wolf population after delisting (an agency stated fact in ID/MT/WY), Washington has adopted one of the most liberal wolf plans putting the most wolves on the least amount of landscape with the highest human population. It's certainly possible I'm wrong, but I'm willing to bet the end result will be more wolf problems.

Here's the million dollar question:

Are wolf groups and the urban population in western Washington going to allow wolf management in Washington once the wolf numbers are reached for delisting?