Private Timberlands Charging for Access. What's next? What can we do?

[longwalker]

still waiting to see any sort of compelling argument as to how these tax laws correlate directly to allowing anybody in the world free reign to access there private property? so should just the people who live in the county where the tree farms have access? how about folks who rent in that county? they cant come in right? they dont pay property taxes. this sounds like you guys really got it all worked out on how to take property rights away from someone in just the "fairest" way possible. freakin commies...

Hey ass wipe....I did not come on here and try to offend you, so how about you offer the same amount of respect! They can shut their damn gates and let no one in as far as I am concerned, and it will be idiots like you that will reap the benefits in the future....not!

is this the compelling argument i was waiting for? i cant tell

[fireweed]

These are very complex issues and to understand them completely you've got to study multiple, changing laws.  The requirement for plans on large parcels is new (but of course all industrial forest land is already classified).  Since there seems to be no way to convince some folks that tax breaks are tied to public benefits in any way (directly or indirectly) , maybe the best course of action is to repeal every single property tax break for everyone--go back to what it was before voters started this in 1969, what the original constitution said--everyone pays on the full fair market value of their land. 

If that happened I wouldn't care one lick how much anyone charged for anything.  Then there would be No questions of whether these tax breaks infringe in any way on property rights, or give the public any reason to insist on some access.  Toss all the tax breaks, period.  Make everyone equal.  That's the American way, right?

[t6]

Write it up.... I'll vote for it!   

T "Wearing my aluminum foil hat" 6

[fireweed]

I think we might be onto something. begin a campaign to Repeal all the property tax breaks--period.

Then all we have to do is sit back and wait....

pretty soon the companies will be saying, wait a minute, what about all these public benefits our land provides.  We need those tax breaks or we will insert: [sell, subdivide, charge people, lease, close mills, lay of workers]   Gee...seems those things have happened all ready.  What they really are saying is we need those tax breaks or we will [make less money].

[t6]

 

[fair-chase]

For the record, I'm all for getting rid of all of the tax breaks, deductions, and subsidies in favor of going to a flat tax. The government should not be in the business of manipulating behavior through the tax system. At the very least this is coercion, and does not represent the ideals of a free society.

But...I think we need to ask ourselves what the unintended consequences would be of lifting the tax break for only a targeted few. The obvious outcome would be an increase in the price of timber/building, fewer timber related jobs, and cutting corners on habitat/natural resource development. Furthermore if the tax rate becomes too burdensome, you will see big timber selling off land. At which point the only buyers left who still get substantial tax breaks and subsidies are the extreme environmental groups who buy land and lock it up completely under the guise of "conservation easements". Or break it up and subdivide it. Either of which would be a far worse predicament than this current situation.

Just something to consider.

[Humptulips]

For the record, I'm all for getting rid of all of the tax breaks, deductions, and subsidies in favor of going to a flat tax. The government should not be in the business of manipulating behavior through the tax system. At the very least this is coercion, and does not represent the ideals of a free society.

But...I think we need to ask ourselves what the unintended consequences would be of lifting the tax break for only a targeted few. The obvious outcome would be an increase in the price of timber/building, fewer timber related jobs, and cutting corners on habitat/natural resource development. Furthermore if the tax rate becomes too burdensome, you will see big timber selling off land. At which point the only buyers left who still get substantial tax breaks and subsidies are the extreme environmental groups who buy land and lock it up completely under the guise of "conservation easements". Or break it up and subdivide it. Either of which would be a far worse predicament than this current situation.

Just something to consider.

This has been brought up before. I worked in the timber industry as a logger until just recently.

Increase in  the price of timber/building. I don't think that would happen. It probably would if WA was the only game in town but they get plenty of competition from production coming from out of state. They would need to price their products competively or they wouldn't sell much. I see lumber at the lumber yard from out of state all the time now so they have to compete on price.

Fewer timber related jobs. That would be funny if it weren't so sad for timber workers. Jobs in the timber industry have been on a rapid decline and mostly because of mechanization. Those aren't government jobs. They take every oppurtunity to lay people off now. I can't see much changing. They make money by logging and they are going to keep that up but with as few people as they can no matter what the profit margin.

Habitat/Natural Resources. They do what they are required to do or what will bring them $s now.  Doing something to improve habitat? If anything they do stuff to damage habitat. Maybe if they had a few less bucks, they would stick to the label when applying herbicides.

If they can subdivide it and sell it I think they will either way. It hasn't stopped them up 'til now.

[fireweed]

More bad PR for Weyerhaeuser

Weyerhaeuser wrong to forces hikers, hunters to pay for access
Daryl Blumberg

My Turn Montesano Vidette

I’ve given this some time as to not say anything regrettable, but I do want to initiate some conversation on the issue. Weyerhaeuser recently announced its closure of public access without permit to its lands for any reason, be it hunting or recreation. They are privately held lands. If I had someone dumping on my land, I would lock it up as well I suppose. With that being said, I must say this as well. I think it’s a low blow. It’s a low blow to the communities that helped to make Weyco what it is today. Most everyone around here either worked for Weyco or knows someone who has. Many around here have had generations of family work in the woods or mills. I know this is a dumb question, given the fact that I live in Montesano, but, does anyone remember the spotted owl ordeal? Does anyone remember the “this business or this family supported by timber dollars” signs in almost every window in town or staked into every front yard? I do.

Anyone remember pictures in the paper of the streets in Hoquiam being flooded with loggers in support of the industry? This community stood up in solidarity for the industry that included Weyco. To me, it feels as if Weyco has shut the door in their faces. Weyco was born and raised right alongside this community and that is why I’m so torn on this issue. It feels like a family dispute. I still know several people who are Weyco employees and shareholders.

I have countless memories that were made out there. I hoped to have countless more but if that’s to be the case, it will cost me $250 bucks a year and take place one and a half hours after sunrise or before dark. There are times that I simply need to get off of the pavement and away from buildings for an afternoon to “reboot.” Perhaps, I want to head over the hill to Brooklyn. Well, even if I wanted to, I couldn’t — not even with my new permit. Access to these areas are specific. My permit will only grant me access to one area, not all of Grays Harbor or anything else and with only one portal of access. I have to go in and out of the same gate. No more cutting over the hill.

Weyco started here around 1900. They had and have a saw mill in Longview originally built in 1929. They bought out Schafer Bros. in Aberdeen, if anyone remembers that name anymore. They built their entire company with their tact, intelligence and the hard work of our communities. I think many fail to realize that a company like this is built in partnership with those who put on a suit and those who put on caulk boots, one who carries a brief case and one who packs a saw. It’s the nature of a logging company to be built on the backs of the community in which it operates. The days of the logging camps are long gone. Members of many small towns that likely wouldn’t exist if it weren’t a launching point for logging activities, live in the heart of the area they log.

I have always been pro Weyco. I have always defended their business practices. I believe it not only the right of a company to maximize profit, but a responsibility to its shareholders. When they ceased operations of the saw mill and log yard in Aberdeen, I defended it. I was a part of the demolition of the old small saw mill and, while standing there, although it didn’t look at all historical due to many years of retrofit and progress, I could feel the history. It was sad, yet I defended it. Their recent restrictiions, however, simply can’t be defended. This is the end of an era. This is not good for the community. I don’t know about you, but I’ve noticed that after many of these logging and mill jobs left, employment and income have “slightly” tapered. Hunting has done nothing but get more costly over the years and, from what I read in a post by a friend, he contacted Sen. Jim Hargrove’s office. They said there was nothing they could do due to it being private land. When he asked about lost revenue from hunting licenses, they said they only expect to see a 10 percent reduction and they will get more funds from a rainy day fund and other sources. So, not only is hunting more costly, but now you need a $250 permit. Oh, and you can’t go with your dad or your friend unless they also have the permit. How’s that for destroying a long standing tradition?

I simply can’t support this. I hope they follow in the footsteps of Port Blakely and notice what a trouncing on community this is. Thoughts?

Daryl Blumberg is a hunter and recreational advocate who lives in Montesano. Feel free to email your thoughts on this topic for publication to editor@thevidette.com
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[Bullkllr]

In a nutshell:  "It’s a low blow to the communities that helped to make Weyco what it is today." 

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Weyco started here around 1900. They had and have a saw mill in Longview originally built in 1929. They bought out Schafer Bros. in Aberdeen, if anyone remembers that name anymore.

I remember that name well. My dad lived with and worked for Anna Schafer, John Schafer's widow, during his high school years after his dad (my grandfather) was killed in a logging accident. When I was a youngster in the 60s we would go with dad to visit Anna and we boys would marvel at the giant goldfish in her pond and try to figure out how we could catch them.

Also of interest to us was her hand cranked elevator which would be loaded with firewood to be cranked up to the main floor of her house.

Schafer State Park, up the Satsop River, was created from land donated by Schafer Bros. Logging.

[mfswallace]

http://www.engageoutdoorwashington.com/ideas/121784/washington-is-the-only-state-that 

[washelkhunter]

About the only thing that can be done is to contact your legislators to pass a bill stripping weyerhauser of all relevant tax breaks. They have broken trust with the public by not allowing free reasonable access. A huge protest and letter writing campaign to the Governor would also be effective in addition.

[Blacktail Sniper]

Some thoughts to consider:

Take away tax breaks if it were even a remote possibility and what is there to stop timber companies from blocking all access to their property, period.

Or just increase fees, because someone will always be glad to pay for special access.

Or go strictly to large block, highest-bidder leases, again, always someone willing to pay.

As hard as it may seem to take, it doesn't seem like a winning battle for access without permit fees.  Not saying I like it nor support it, but Weyerhaeuser and the other timber companies are a big force with lots of money, political influence and power.

Nothing is getting cheaper and places to just access forest land to hunt, fish, explore are finite and more and more crowded which adds additional limitations as to what activity can be partaken of.

It is a hard and bitter pill to swallow, I have hunted the Weyco land outside of Toutle since 1976, many days spent year around cruising the roads, looking for critters, watching sign, trapping, fishing, etc. 

When the gates started going up, I knew it was only a matter of time before it would get to this point and now it is here. 

Am I going to buy a permit? That is still up in the air.  I don't live in Cowlitz Co. any more, so if I did happen to draw a special permit down there, yes, I would begrudgingly buy a permit, no special draw win means you won't see me hunting grounds that I have 38 years invested in learning and enjoying.

Good luck to all in the draw this year.

[pianoman9701]

Some thoughts to consider:

Take away tax breaks if it were even a remote possibility and what is there to stop timber companies from blocking all access to their property, period.

Or just increase fees, because someone will always be glad to pay for special access.

Or go strictly to large block, highest-bidder leases, again, always someone willing to pay.

As hard as it may seem to take, it doesn't seem like a winning battle for access without permit fees.  Not saying I like it nor support it, but Weyerhaeuser and the other timber companies are a big force with lots of money, political influence and power.

Nothing is getting cheaper and places to just access forest land to hunt, fish, explore are finite and more and more crowded which adds additional limitations as to what activity can be partaken of.

It is a hard and bitter pill to swallow, I have hunted the Weyco land outside of Toutle since 1976, many days spent year around cruising the roads, looking for critters, watching sign, trapping, fishing, etc. 

When the gates started going up, I knew it was only a matter of time before it would get to this point and now it is here. 

Am I going to buy a permit? That is still up in the air.  I don't live in Cowlitz Co. any more, so if I did happen to draw a special permit down there, yes, I would begrudgingly buy a permit, no special draw win means you won't see me hunting grounds that I have 38 years invested in learning and enjoying.

Good luck to all in the draw this year.

The WDFW could require damage culling to be performed by DFW assigned hunters/tag holders. They'd have to allow access if they wanted the elk and bears to be kept in control. Wildlife management is the job of the DFW, not a timber company. And, the wildlife belongs to all of us regardless of on whose land it's standing.

[t6]

I'd rather see them lock the gates and see how long it took for them to see an over run of the animals they aren't poisoning.