Good ole days of Wa. pheasant hunting

[Wacenturion]

Well, they're certainly not making any money on that $84.50 pheasant license.

I've hunted planted birds and wild birds. There's no comparison. I started out at the release sites, to get my dog started, but after going east and hunting the wild birds I just can't get interested in the release sites anymore.

But you did get you dog started.....see......you benefited even if just a little.

[Dave Workman]

Well, they're certainly not making any money on that $84.50 pheasant license.

I've hunted planted birds and wild birds. There's no comparison. I started out at the release sites, to get my dog started, but after going east and hunting the wild birds I just can't get interested in the release sites anymore.

Well, whooptie doo. Just because YOU "just can't get interested in the release sites anymore" is no reason not to have them.

I really wish they would just do away with all pheasant release sites, even in western Washington. If people want to shoot planted birds, let them buy their own. If there were no pheasants to hunt, habitat would be much higher on the priority list, and maybe eventually we'd have wild birds to hunt again.

So what?

I recall your posts way last year about the Colorado boycott and how you thought it would be a crackerjack idea to apply for a non-res deer permit because the competition would be down.

There's a word for this, and for your pheasant hunting preferences.  That word is "elitist."

Wacenturion's little finger knows more about the history of this scenario that most folks have in all of their gray matter. He was recognized for his work by the old Fishing & Hunting News one year. I know, because I was the guy who wrote the editorial.

Unless you lived it, you have no idea what it was like...and WHAT IT COULD BE AGAIN with a change of management philosophy.  For a lot of people, the release sites are all they have, and they're paying dearly for the opportunity to hunt those places.

You want wild birds to hunt?

1) Kill every coyote you see.

2) Forget everything you think about WDFW and pay attention to Wacenturion's remark: "That would not change the mindset at WDFW about addressing eastern Washington habitat issues one bit.  It's too much work.  Meetings and continual planning to avoid work is easier.  The money not spent on released birds would go to hire more snail biologists."


 

I'm delighted you have a good dog and can head over to the basin.  Good for you. But don't try to argue that your standard should be everybody's standard.  Pretty soon, I'm liable to get the impression you're going to be the NEXT socialist candidate for the Seattle City Council 

[singleshot12]

The Good ole days are right now appreciate what you got now whether it be a release site roosters or a wild(which are most likely holdover birds anyways.) Canned hunting or not it could be gone tomorrow and then what are you and your dogs going to do? win the lottery and hunt Dakota every year?

[bobcat]

I don't hunt pheasants anymore. Haven't gone for 4 or 5 years. Costs too much to drive 700 miles round trip every weekend. If I do find time to go bird hunting, I will go for grouse. Planted birds just aren't my thing and neither are planted fish.


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[Bluemoon]

I also was fortunate to grow up in Moses Lake in the 60's and 70's when pheasant hunting there was the good old days.  IMO the decline of pheasants was tied directly to the loss of Sugar Beets after U&I sugar pulled out.  The pheasants nested in the beet fields which were not harvested until mid October and they would raise two to three broods a year undisturbed.  When the beet fields left most of the farming went to Alfalfa which was cut up to four times a season where the nests and the chicks were literally getting chopped up and destroyed.
Fast forward to the mid 90's when U & I sugar stated they were going to reopen their plant in Moses Lake, The State was all over announcing how they were going to create pheasant hunting opportunities via habitat and new management programs.  When all they were actually doing was going to ride the shirttails of the farmers once again after 240 thousand acres of sugar beets were planted.  Well 25 million dollars later with 10 million of that coming from the USDA (our taxes) the plant never reopened the farmers that went back over to the beets harvested their crops only to watch them rot in huge piles for there was no place to take them to market.   Since that time the state has done nothing or said nothing about wild pheasant management on the east side.  All they did was come up with a East Side Enhancement Stamp thanks to the late Senator Bob Oaks who stated people pay it on the West side why not the East!! More money taken away from hunters with less opportunity for pheasant hunting.
For those that hunted the Yakima area remember that there was also a beet plant in Toppenish and that there were beet crops all over the lower valley as well.   
That is my 

[metlhead]

Maybe we could form an organization, say, Wild Pheasant Conservancy, preach how detrimental these hatchery birds are, force the state to eliminate them, get paid for it, and purchase habitat! Sounds easy. Anyways, as a kid in the 70's and 80's, I was very fortunate to hunt our family ranch in south-central Nebraska every fall. The entire family would go out for the morning drive through the milo fields. Two hours would usually end with a pile of about a hundred roosters and a whitetail or two. We would stay for about a week, doing the same every day. As tremendous as that shooting was, it was the four or five trips that year over to the Yak rez that were the real hunts. We knew lots of landowners with a lot of great cover. The birds were so plentiful that we could bust limits by mid-morning and spend the rest of the day chasing quail. I especially remember watching our springers blazing through the mint fields as I posted the escape. Is mint even raised anymore on the rez. Gave up on the pheasants about five years ago, and spend all my time there hunting quail. It is still really good, just getting fewer and fewer spots to hunt.

[Dave Workman]

Don't ask me how I know..............I developed and ran a statewide habitat restoration program for WDFW that did great things during the 90's, until reorganization put the program under Wildlife Management where it died.  You see they think you can solve problems by continually going to meetings, planning, and making excuses for not getting their hands dirty...like in actual field work.

It just takes time and effort to reverse a trend.  It's amazing how quickly 10 years flys by when you're trying to put habitat back.  It also takes time to grow it to where it's meaningful, especaially in low precipatation ranges in eastern Washington.  If it took 30 years to see it disappear, it takes time to put it back.  However it's doable.   Morons at WDFW didn't see the need.  It's easier to pretend being a biologist for an entire career.  Don't get me started on upland birds............

Once again amigo, you knock it out of the park.

I keep telling some of these know-it-alls who think less is the new more that we CAN turn things around. You will recall I was around back in the early 90s when you were doing all of that good work. And I remember how it seemed simply anal to take success and turn it into something less.

As for hatchery birds...if it was done right (and I know just the hombre who could explain how  ) by putting hens on healthy feed mash for a couple of weeks before turning them loose in time to bring off a good clutch or two, and doing whatever it took to provide those patches of cover, we'd be back in the late 60s and early 70s again in the Basin in 3-5 years.

It also takes heavy emphasis on predator control out there.  No license requirements for shooting coyotes would be a grand start.

About the only reason I get a small game license in the spring is to have the opportunity to blow away every coyote I see. I figure one less coyote, maybe 50 more rabbits, 50 more grouse chicks, maybe save a few pheasants... But of course, I'm one of those old neanderthals who doesn't understand — what do they call it? — modern science-based wildlife management. 

[huntingfool7]

The Good ole days are right now appreciate what you got now whether it be a release site roosters or a wild(which are most likely holdover birds anyways.) Canned hunting or not it could be gone tomorrow and then what are you and your dogs going to do? win the lottery and hunt Dakota every year?

You don't have to win the lottery to hunt in the Dakotas.  A couple guys splitting expenses could easily spend 7-10 days for $600/each.  Land access is really good in North Dakota, the birds are there, the locals are friendly and they appreciate hunters. 

Fish & Wildlife in North Dakota is ran by people who-
1) appreciate hunting and hunters. 
2) willing and able to do something about habitat.
3) don't pretend that predator control has zero effect on wildlife numbers.

I have no issue with spending money in a state like that.

[singleshot12]

The Good ole days are right now appreciate what you got now whether it be a release site roosters or a wild(which are most likely holdover birds anyways.) Canned hunting or not it could be gone tomorrow and then what are you and your dogs going to do? win the lottery and hunt Dakota every year?

You don't have to win the lottery to hunt in the Dakotas.  A couple guys splitting expenses could easily spend 7-10 days for $600/each.  Land access is really good in North Dakota, the birds are there, the locals are friendly and they appreciate hunters. 

Fish & Wildlife in North Dakota is ran by people who-
1) appreciate hunting and hunters. 
2) willing and able to do something about habitat.
3) don't pretend that predator control has zero effect on wildlife numbers.

I have no issue with spending money in a state like that.

600 bucks really doesn't sound that bad for a week or so of rooster heaven. That cost would many cover fuel and lodging I would imagine? Shoot I may give up all hope in this state and start hunting N. Dakota. When do you want to go?

[fethrduster]

Back in the early 80's near Othello, I remember hunting with my dad and my springer in a standing corn field that had just been blown over by a big wind storm.  It was cold and frosty that November morning, and I vividly remember my springer's bouncing all over all the blown over corn.  He was having an incredible time, and so was I.  That field was an irresistible pheasant magnet, and about 150 pheasants got up in a corner of the field after we had pushed them there, shooting along the way.  Needless to say, we got our limits in short order.  Those were definitely the good 'ol days.  I agree that large systemic changes would have to be implemented for it to return to that level again. 

[Sandberm]

Theres a few things that contributed to the decline of pheasants and in my opinion Wascenturion really knocks it out of the park with his year round cover argument. Pesticides have nothing to do with it. Its alllll about the cover.

Aspargrass. Used to be lots of it in the basin then the amount of acres dwindled to near nothing. Great cover for pheasants from July through Feb.. Now, acres are begining to increase and I think we will see an increase in birds as a result.

We're too clean. Farms in an effort to be more efficient and control weed problems are much cleaner then in years past. No weedy corners or fencelines, no cover.

Hay farming. When I was a kid we would cut the 1st cutting of hay in late may. A lot of the nesting was already done to the point you could slow the swather down to let the little guys run out of the way. Now? We cut earlier to get better quality and the swathers go much faster. Theres no time to see movement in the hay in front of the swather to slow down. Mow em up, if there are any to mow up.

Though i havent looked into it I know there is money that land owners used to be able to get to plant habitat friendly areas. Shrubs, trees etc. Maybe the money dried up for this, I dont know. As a land owner you have to have a special place in your heart to set aside a corner of a field and go through the work to not only plant the wildlife friendly plants but take care of them forever.

Just the opinion of a guy who was born and raised on a farm and has seen the decline over the years of pheasants.

[jay.sharkbait]

My best Pheasant memories are of growing up next to the state game farm in Oakbrook

[JODakota]

The Good ole days are right now appreciate what you got now whether it be a release site roosters or a wild(which are most likely holdover birds anyways.) Canned hunting or not it could be gone tomorrow and then what are you and your dogs going to do? win the lottery and hunt Dakota every year?

You don't have to win the lottery to hunt in the Dakotas.  A couple guys splitting expenses could easily spend 7-10 days for $600/each.  Land access is really good in North Dakota, the birds are there, the locals are friendly and they appreciate hunters. 

Fish & Wildlife in North Dakota is ran by people who-
1) appreciate hunting and hunters. 
2) willing and able to do something about habitat.
3) don't pretend that predator control has zero effect on wildlife numbers.

I have no issue with spending money in a state like that.

600 bucks really doesn't sound that bad for a week or so of rooster heaven. That cost would many cover fuel and lodging I would imagine? Shoot I may give up all hope in this state and start hunting N. Dakota. When do you want to go?

If you guys head over this way, shoot me a pm and I'll put you in the right direction.

[huntingaddiction]

There are still a few places that have wild birds by the thousands!  Just gotta know where to go!

[Wacenturion]

I also was fortunate to grow up in Moses Lake in the 60's and 70's when pheasant hunting there was the good old days.  IMO the decline of pheasants was tied directly to the loss of Sugar Beets after U&I sugar pulled out.  The pheasants nested in the beet fields which were not harvested until mid October and they would raise two to three broods a year undisturbed.  When the beet fields left most of the farming went to Alfalfa which was cut up to four times a season where the nests and the chicks were literally getting chopped up and destroyed.
Fast forward to the mid 90's when U & I sugar stated they were going to reopen their plant in Moses Lake, The State was all over announcing how they were going to create pheasant hunting opportunities via habitat and new management programs.  When all they were actually doing was going to ride the shirttails of the farmers once again after 240 thousand acres of sugar beets were planted.  Well 25 million dollars later with 10 million of that coming from the USDA (our taxes) the plant never reopened the farmers that went back over to the beets harvested their crops only to watch them rot in huge piles for there was no place to take them to market.   Since that time the state has done nothing or said nothing about wild pheasant management on the east side.  All they did was come up with a East Side Enhancement Stamp thanks to the late Senator Bob Oaks who stated people pay it on the West side why not the East!! More money taken away from hunters with less opportunity for pheasant hunting.
For those that hunted the Yakima area remember that there was also a beet plant in Toppenish and that there were beet crops all over the lower valley as well.   
That is my 

Beets were an important cover back in the days, but not, I repeat, not the straw that broke the camel's back.  Birds nest in available cover based on what is available within their annual range, which as I mentioned is 1-1.5 miles within a circle radiating out from good permanent retention cover.

There were lots of areas in the Basin back then that didn't have sugar beets.  Birds nested elsewhere.  Yes they got whacked by swathers in alfalfa fields.  Believe me I know as I did lots of walk behind surveys in my days watching the results.  What was worse was the onslaught of seagulls who swooped down on chicks exposed and literally in one gulp swallowed them.  Even with that carnage, the were numbers high enough to absorb the losses.  Nature's way when you have good habitat.

Common sense tells one that if you have nothing but sugar beets as cover, then once they are harvested there is nothing but bare dirt.  So what does a pheasant do the rest of the year including winter?  Again it all comes down to strategically placed permanent retention cover.  It retains birds, it allows then to exist within their annual range and utilize other components that exist there...i.e. water, crops, bugs, etc.

The program I mentioned was not riding the sugar beet thing in the 90's.  We were physically creating habitat or improving existing areas in need everywhere in the state.  Just because reorganization essentially ended the program in 99', the lack of effort doesn't have one thing to do with sugar beets rotting in the fields as you mentioned.  It is directly the result of business as usual at WDFW.