Elk Hoof Disease Public Meeting - Wed, May 21st 1-4PM - Please Attend!!

[idahohuntr]

They don't want that because timber pays everyone and if they were to say it, timber would put pressure on the elected officials who have power over them.

The working group has representatives from RMEF, Safari Club, DNR, local tribes, county commissioners, Department of Health, WSU, USFS, WDFW, and Weyerhaeuser.

With no evidence to support it, you have implied that all of these members would compromise their personal integrity in their efforts to address this problem by ignoring potential causes. This is allegedly done in order to avoid the possibility of timber companies contacting elected officials. I find that implication to be shameful. To believe that RMEF, Safari Club, independent veterinarians, tribes, and others would participate in a cover up which harms elk is simply and literally incredible.

  Absolutely spot on!!!! 

I have been disgusted by the desire of some to drum up conspiracy and controversy when it is clear that this is a very difficult and complex issue that will not be solved over night.  Although based on other threads it does not surprise me to see folks resort to conspiracies and cover-ups in place of facts and logic 

That being said, it still does seem very likely that herbicides are playing a role...probably some very difficult and complex tertiary interactions that are not easy to identify.   

[t6]

Idaho.... no one has said anything about a conspiracy .... yet. 

I find it equally discusting the apathy that WDFW and the Timber Companies have shown to the plight of the elk and the potential loss to communities in the effected areas. 

There is more than enough evidence to see that the herbicide Atrazine has significant risks to the elk and to humans alike.  WDFW and their "Researchers" do not want to even examine it as a potential cause or factor in the illness. 

All people are asking is for WDFW to look at it objectively and so far they are simply ignoring the evidence and people such as yourself defending their position does nothing to promote further examination. 

So far, they have spent little money and have even fewer results. 

I think the "Conspiracy Group" is more than willing to look at everything and anything as a cause to the "Hoof Rot" however there is something causing the elk to be susceptible to the disease or diseases at had. 

Why is WDFW so opposed to looking at the herbicides as a cause? 

[rotty33]

Would the wolves help alleviate this problem?

[t6]

Sure, lets have wolves put additional stress on already sick elk.....  (extreme sarcasm)

How about we get our Officials to put a moratorium on chemical pesticides and herbicides for five years and see if the health of wildlife improves. 

Atrazine can live for up to a year in the soil.   Look this crap up and do some research.  Amazing amounts of information are available on the internet if you spend a little bit of time.  It certainly wont take you five years...... yes more sarcsam. 

[idahohuntr]

Idaho.... no one has said anything about a conspiracy .... yet. 

I find it equally discusting the apathy that WDFW and the Timber Companies have shown to the plight of the elk and the potential loss to communities in the effected areas. 

There is more than enough evidence to see that the herbicide Atrazine has significant risks to the elk and to humans alike.  WDFW and their "Researchers" do not want to even examine it as a potential cause or factor in the illness. 

All people are asking is for WDFW to look at it objectively and so far they are simply ignoring the evidence and people such as yourself defending their position does nothing to promote further examination. 

So far, they have spent little money and have even fewer results. 

I think the "Conspiracy Group" is more than willing to look at everything and anything as a cause to the "Hoof Rot" however there is something causing the elk to be susceptible to the disease or diseases at had. 

Why is WDFW so opposed to looking at the herbicides as a cause?

Go read Bob's post again.  He is spot on...that's what I am referencing.  I also agree that the herbicides are a very likely culprit...but I have nothing to base that on.

[Tbar]

The thing that rubs me in ALL these threads is many members have keep claiming absolute proof and discounting several respectable professionals work, knowledge, and integrity. I don't even discount the knowledge of all involved. The integrity attacks really bother me as I know several people truly care and are working very hard to find a very difficult resolution.  Could the audience have the answers? Absolutely!  However there are people on this forum and at the meetings that have turned a serious issue into something like a whodunit theater (if you have been to one you can relate to the likenesses). Some may be spot on and others are on a completely different subject all together (and may be promoting their own agenda).
I also realize what's potentially at stake with those employed by a public agency.  I don't think they are scared of finding a cause but want scientific proof of what that cause is before the determination is made. To attack any industry is risky especially if you are without concrete evidence to back your claims. It literally awes me to see the oversimplification of all the complexities involved by some people.

[t6]

I don't see anyone claiming to have absolute proof... we are just asking for WDFW to look at the science that has already been done. 

No one has said the members of the working group are to blame. 

Its extremely possible that the elk are suffering from a multitude of illnesses brought on by immunotoxins lowering their ability to fight the bacteria and or viruses. 

Let me ask this..... if you were looking for answers for five years, wouldn't you consider the toxins sprayed as a possible culprit?    I would and I'm not a scientist or biologist but I can read the science that's already out there.   

Why won't WDFW?     

[pianoman9701]

The thing that rubs me in ALL these threads is many members have keep claiming absolute proof and discounting several respectable professionals work, knowledge, and integrity. I don't even discount the knowledge of all involved. The integrity attacks really bother me as I know several people truly care and are working very hard to find a very difficult resolution.  Could the audience have the answers? Absolutely!  However there are people on this forum and at the meetings that have turned a serious issue into something like a whodunit theater (if you have been to one you can relate to the likenesses). Some may be spot on and others are on a completely different subject all together (and may be promoting their own agenda).
I also realize what's potentially at stake with those employed by a public agency.  I don't think they are scared of finding a cause but want scientific proof of what that cause is before the determination is made. To attack any industry is risky especially if you are without concrete evidence to back your claims. It literally awes me to see the oversimplification of all the complexities involved by some people.

No one said they have absolute proof. But there's been very compelling evidence presented and so far, it's been largely ignored. In 5 years, they haven't tested once for agricultural chemicals. That doesn't seem odd to you, TB?

Look at the wolf program and tell me again about professionals and integrity at the top of the WDFW. There may be several people who care, as you say. As I've said before, I think the working group is mainly a hard core group of people honestly concerned about the disease and finding solutions. That doesn't mean that their suggestions and concerns will be properly addressed if they don't fit within established agendas. The damage to veterans from Agent Orange was denied for decades and at some levels of government, still is. Yet, we know and see what it has done to them. Tell me all you know about the integrity of our government. I'll be at the national cemetery this morning looking at the stones which indicate that sometimes they lie to us and those we care about.

[nwwanderer]

Lepto, immune response, bacterial, nutritional or combinations?  Lots of elk on federal ground, go over their heads and fund a will designed privately funded (RMEF, HSUS, Sierra Club) study with the help of a federal judge.  The ninth circuit has done far stranger things.  Having meetings is a major budget item for WDFW and you can expect it to continue for years to come with any difficult subject.

[billythekidrock]

Idaho.... no one has said anything about a conspiracy .... yet. 

I find it equally discusting the apathy that WDFW and the Timber Companies have shown to the plight of the elk and the potential loss to communities in the effected areas. 

There is more than enough evidence to see that the herbicide Atrazine has significant risks to the elk and to humans alike.  WDFW and their "Researchers" do not want to even examine it as a potential cause or factor in the illness. 

All people are asking is for WDFW to look at it objectively and so far they are simply ignoring the evidence and people such as yourself defending their position does nothing to promote further examination. 

So far, they have spent little money and have even fewer results. 

I think the "Conspiracy Group" is more than willing to look at everything and anything as a cause to the "Hoof Rot" however there is something causing the elk to be susceptible to the disease or diseases at had. 

Why is WDFW so opposed to looking at the herbicides as a cause? 

Maybe because WDFW don't care about elk as much as they care about geoducks?   I am not big on conspiracy theories, but in the book "Operation Cody" the author mentions a couple of times that that is the sentiment in parts of WDFW.

[bbarnes]

http://www.uap.ca/products/documents/Atrazine480PCP20997.pdf
This product is toxic to aquatic invertebrates. Spray drift or runoff may adversely affect aquatic invertebrates and non-target plants in neighboring areas. Do not apply to areas where surface water is present or to intertidal areas below the mean high water mark. Keep out of lakes, streams and ponds. Do not contaminate water when disposing of equipment wash waters. Atrazine can travel (seep or leach) through soil and can enter groundwater that may be used as drinking water. Atrazine has been found in groundwater.
http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedLiteratureDAS/dh_0060/0901b8038006060f.pdf?filepath=/011-10104.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc
In view of the toxicity induced in experimental animals on repeated exposure, proper care should be taken during occupational use to avoid excessive inhalation of dust or spray particles, and to prevent accidental contamination of food products and water.
http://www.fmccrop.com.au/wp-content/uploads/PDFs/Atrazine%20900%20WG%20Herbicide%20MSDS.pdf
Atrazine is highly persistent in soil.
Keep away from food, drink and animal feeding stuffs.
Breakdown in vegetation: Atrazine is absorbed by plants mainly through the roots, but also through the foliage. Once absorbed, it is translocated upward and accumulates in the growing tips and the new leaves of the plant.
http://www.apvma.gov.au/products/review/docs/atrazine_tox.pdf
Bodyweight and thymus weights were reduced in all groups. Animals appeared thin and hunched at the 2 highest doses.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3481744/
Cattle can be considered as an important source for herbicides through nutrition. Therefore, herbicide residue in animal products is a potential human exposure to herbicides causing public health problems in human life. Triazines are a group of herbicides primarily used to control broadleaf weeds in corn and other feed ingredients and are considered as possible human carcinogens. To evaluate trace residue of these pollutants molecular imprinted solid phase extraction (MISPE) method has been developed, using biological samples.
Atrazine (2-chloro-4-ethylamino-6-isopropylamino-1, 3, 5-teriazine) (C8H14ClN5) Atrazine is the most widely used S-triazine. Other S-triazines used as herbicides are Symazine and cyromazine. Atrazine is not very volatile, reactive or flammable but dissolves readily in water and has been heavily used throughout the world especially applied to corn, sorghum and sugar cane (4). Atrazine usage have been increasing steadily since the 1960’s to the level of about 64 to 80 million 1bs each year in the United States, making it one of the two most widely used pesticides in that country (3).
Since the number of environmental pollutants, drugs and their metabolites, and additives used in the food and feed industry is growing, the need for efficient and accurate analytical methods to detect such compounds is increasing, especially for compounds affecting human health (13). Advanced instrumentation and their detectors are able to detect and identify trace levels of analytes in complex samples (13).
Cattle can accumulate herbicides in their body through ingestion plants infested with these compounds and one of the ways, by which, human beings are exposed to atrazine is through cattle meat and milk consumption.
This study was aimed to monitor presence of atrazine in the cattle biological samples, using molecular imprinted solid phase extraction followed by high performance liquid chromatography.
Atrazine has more acute toxic effects on ruminants than rodents. In one study, two doses of 250 mg/kg caused death in both sheep and cattle (29).
Atrazine concentrations in the serum and urine samples of the study group were higher (P < 0.001) than those of the control group, which indicates that atrazine in the feed ingredients, ingested by cattle, could be transferred in to the biological samples and would be a potential hazard for human health.
It seems that the present study is the first one which reports atrazine residues in biological samples of cattle. The statistically significant difference between atrazine concentration in the serum and urine samples of the study and control groups indicated that atrazine in the feed ingredients ingested by cattle could be transferred in to the biological samples and could be a potential hazard for human health.

[bbarnes]

Atrazine ELISA test kit (Microtiter Plate)
Atrazine is a broad-leaf, pre-emergence herbicide. It is one of the most widely used herbicides around the world. Atrazine is the leading member of a class of triazine ring-containing herbicides that includes simazine and terbutylazine. Atrazine has been found to be less biodegradable than other less substituted s-triazine ring compounds with a half life from 1 week to 1 year in different soils. Because of their relative wide application, their relative high persistence, and their ability to leach through the soil, they can be detected in rain, surface water and ground water. the application of Atrazine is prohibited in several countries, in the U.S., according to the USEPA SWDA drinking water guidelines, the MCL for Atrazine is not allowed to exceed 3 ppb. The ELISA test kit detects Atrazine and related Triazines in environmental samples at the ppt levels and does not cross-react with non-related agricultural compounds.

The kit, a 96-well microtiter plate format with ready to use reagents, enables fast assay kinetics, super sensitivity, and the simultaneous measurement of multiple samples at a reasonable cost. The total time for measurement is less than 50 minutes.

For further information about our Atrazine kit, please contact us at customerservice@biosense.com

download .pdf product sheet

The Atrazine ELISA kit has been successfully verified by The Environmental Technology Verification Program (ETV). The results of the evaluation can be found at the US Environmental Protection Agency homepage. Download the .pdf statement here.

[bbarnes]

Abstract
The present study evaluated the possible protective effects of selenium against atrazine-induced toxicity in the liver and reproductive system of rats. Atrazine administered to rats orally at a dose of 120 mg/kg caused an inhibition in the activity of glutathione-S-transferase and an increase in malondialdehyde formation in the liver, testis and epididymis. Superoxide dismutase decreased in the liver and testis but was increased in the epididymis. Furthermore, hepatic glutathione and lactate dehydrogenase activity increased while epididymal catalase, ascorbate content, hepatic aspartate aminotransferase and glutathione peroxidase activities in all the tissues decreased in the atrazine-treated animals. Hepatic, testicular and epididymal alanine aminotransferase activities were not affected by atrazine (p>0.05). Decreased epididymal and testicular sperm number, sperm motility, daily sperm production and increased number of dead and abnormal sperm were observed in atrazine-treated rats.

Treatment of rats orally with selenium at a dose of 0.25 mg/kg did not prevent atrazine-induced changes in sperm characteristics and had no protective effects against atrazine-induced biochemical alterations in the testis and epididymis except testicular lactate dehydrogenase. Catalase activity and ascorbate contents were unchanged in these groups of animals. However, selenium effectively protected against atrazine-induced changes in biochemical indices in the liver. In rats treated with selenium alone, glutathione peroxidase in all the tissues, hepatic glutathione and superoxide dismutase, testicular lactate dehydrogenase activity and ascorbate content increased, while hepatic catalase activities decreased (p<0.05).

Our data suggest that selenium effectively attenuated the toxic effects of atrazine-induced liver changes but not in the reproductive organs and sperms of rats. Selenium might therefore be useful in ameliorating oxidative stress in the liver.

[bbarnes]

This is on of many dangerous chemicals being sprayed in timber lands.We have done the research and i personally have a agenda, its called a healthy herd of wildlife.Also sound wild life management, that this state has been lacking since the late 80 s.I hear a lot of people complaining,but few stepping up to do anything about it.I think a lot of that comes from fear,of being criticized for speaking up.Well rest assured I'm in until this is resolved.One thing that strikes me funny is,that the assistant director sits on the forest practice board ,and has never brought this to there attention.We found that out from him,when we testified at the last meeting.Thats seems suspect to me when he's listened to our testimony,at numerous WDFW commission meetings.I urge every person to let fellow sports persons know about this serious threat to our wildlife and get involved.

[Elkaholic daWg]

http://jongosch.com/local-farriers-research-connects-herbicides-to-hoof-disease-in-elk-horses/
Local Farrier’s Research Connects Herbicides to Hoof Disease in Elk, Horses

WDFW Invites Her to Make Formal Presentation, Senior Scientist with Forest Law Center Finds Research "Compelling"



Ooooops Already on page 2..... sorry