euthanizing elk with hoof rot....

[Curly]

That is good for the licensed hunters. 

I need to retract my badmouthing of wdfw then.  I missed that part too about them doing it next winter.

[Bulldozer77]

That is good for the licensed hunters. 

I need to retract my badmouthing of wdfw then.  I missed that part too about them doing it next winter.

I have known about hoof rot for a long time, but I thought they were going to go in there and start shooting up the herds before hunting season. Paying $150 to chase elk around that have been getting shot at in the months leading up to hunting season was just too much for me. I'm glad it'll be after hunting season.

[mfswallace]

With the unknown cause of disease how can they pass this diseased animal off to food banks??

[idahohuntr]

With the unknown cause of disease how can they pass this diseased animal off to food banks??

I don't think its really an unknown cause...they have suspected bacterial infection of hooves for some time now and it sounds like its pretty clear its this treponeme bacteria.  What is perplexing is why it is showing up more frequently than historically.  The proximate cause though is still an infection of the hooves that remains limited to the hooves...it is not as though we are finding dead elk laying in a field and wondering how they died...we know what is being affected. 

Two other points: if there was any reasonable doubt the meat was not safe they would not provide it to food banks...they've got a panel of 15 top wildlife disease experts/vets/etc. and everyone concurs the meat is safe.  They have analyzed all the tissues, filtering organs through necropsies and lab evaluations on hoof rot infected elk and come to the determination after very rigorous review that the meat is safe...the infection is limited to the hooves. 

2nd, Livestock with hoof disease are routinely slaughtered and consumed in the US...there does not appear to be any connection between hoof disease and meat...there are rigorous protocols for putting food on the commercial market and if there was a serious risk or concern they would not allow it...so, all of the experts on this panel (15) and the USDA/FDA whoever all concur hoof diseased animals are safe to eat.  I'd say its probably safe to eat   

[billythekidrock]

I think you may have a little too much faith in wdfw.  Yes, they appear to finally be trying to do something, but I think it is going to be too little too late.  The timing is suspect; seems like killing off some of the affected elk would have been a solution discussed months ago.........why come out with that decision right after the permit draw?  Just seems fishy.

I would agree that the timing is suspect. You can guarantee that any potential impact to license and permit sales has been thought out prior to any changes.

[cem3434]

Even if they informed hunters about this, the wdfw would have still had the same application $$ coming in...People would have just applied elsewhere

Just my 

I think many hunters would have rather not drawn than waste their points because nobody actually knows how many elk are infected nor how many elk the state is going to take out of the herd. They should have released this information prior to the special permit draws and made sure everyone was aware of their intentions. They had no problem making everyone aware that Weyco was going to start charging access fees in the game regs, so I don't see how this is any different. Its all about perception and I perceive this as though they are withholding this information from the general public in order to ensure their license and permit sales don't suffer. If I wasted my points on one of the St. Helens units, I would be on the phone demanding my points were reinstated and they keep their permit.

[pianoman9701]

That is good for the licensed hunters. 

I need to retract my badmouthing of wdfw then.  I missed that part too about them doing it next winter.

I have known about hoof rot for a long time, but I thought they were going to go in there and start shooting up the herds before hunting season. Paying $150 to chase elk around that have been getting shot at in the months leading up to hunting season was just too much for me. I'm glad it'll be after hunting season.

Yes, they'll leave the diseased animals there so you can eat them and then kill the rest after the season. What a bargain.

[steen]

I'd "waste" my tag on a limping elk as long as it is not so thin there is not enough meat to eat. I would think they would call the "special hunters" that take the course (the name is not coming to me at the moment, but you know who I mean) to shoot a bunch of them if they have not filled their tags.  Lots of ways to do it with people who have spent the money to buy the tags and some would even donate the carcasses to the food bank. I understand both sides having to get the elk out of the herds but also utilizing tags that are out there to get it done would be a good idea.

[birddogdad]

since there are master hunters, set "special" permits in these most of these areas. Additionally, they get call ups for depredation removals mostly from farm property wintering areas.... i would love to see the state work to use these hunters opportunities to REQUIRE the master hunters to identify and remove one of these from the herd and not shoot until one identified (if this is as bad as being advertised should not be an issue) Most of these after season removals are not really hunting anyway, just a drive up and harvest..... Have them work to remove these animals first. There are plenty of normal chances for these hunters as well. This should help both state and us mere human hunters still have more chance during the mere human seasons (spoken combat seasons)....

[pianoman9701]

since there are master hunters, set "special" permits in these most of these areas. Additionally, they get call ups for depredation removals mostly from farm property wintering areas.... i would love to see the state work to use these hunters opportunities to REQUIRE the master hunters to identify and remove one of these from the herd and not shoot until one identified (if this is as bad as being advertised should not be an issue) Most of these after season removals are not really hunting anyway, just a drive up and harvest..... Have them work to remove these animals first. There are plenty of normal chances for these hunters as well. This should help both state and us mere human hunters still have more chance during the mere human seasons (spoken combat seasons)....

I'm not sure what problem you have with Master Hunters, but most likely it's a misunderstanding about the program. Your comment about "us mere human hunters" pits you against fellow hunters, which seems like a crappy route to take. I suggest if you have specific problems with the program, you take them to the WDFW and request changes instead of being mad at the participants. The hunters who participate dedicate long hours of study and conservation to receive their certification and to keep it ongoingly, and they do a lot of work around the state that otherwise might not be done. If you're mad about MHs having damage tag opportunities, then either participate in the program or don't - that's up to you. There was a sign up period this year open to all licensed hunters in WA. I assume from your post that you didn't either sign up or do the required work for certification. Again, having sour grapes about not having the same opportunities is about the same as being mad that Obama's the President after you refused to vote. But regardless of your reason for not liking the program, take it to the people who run it, not those who have done extra to participate.

As far as the culling of the St. Helens herd specifically, the WDFW likely intends to use MHs as well as others to do their surveys and to cull animals, although specifics aren't yet available. At this point, they suggest that the meat will be distributed to food banks around the affected area. I wouldn't eat one of those animals if my family were starving to death.

Oh yeah, welcome to the forum. 

[birddogdad]

you misunderstand my writing . i have 2 very close friends who have had time to complete MH. i totally feel you (MH) can be/are more responsible for ethical harvest of these critters rather than us "other guys", I know you are held to a very high standard and code of ethics.... when i can get the time to complete i too will become one. Work has just prevented so far. With state guidance, (as they already give you), why cant your help be benifical on two fronts? deprivation and hoof rot reduction for this special game harvested? you are mostly alone, game mostly unmolested, should have ample time to survey the herd and time to determine these animals and you can be a help to all. THAT is what i think MH are to me - Help to protect and promote the ethical harvest of game and when called upon by the state, support efforts for all our good. Sure there are perks to any certifications, some of the special draws are wonderful... but my read of these aritcles is that we have a serious issue that needs serious help. Where better to start than with you?

oh and thanks for the welcome~!

[pianoman9701]

I think they are planning on starting with MHs and will survey the animals to make sure they're limping before they shoot. It's pretty sad. If estimates from some of the locals are anywhere close to correct, this is affecting from between 20-50% of animals. If this is true, those herds are in a lot of trouble.

[bobcat]

Wow Pman! Way to totally misunderstand a post! 

[Curly]

When I helped my dad with his disabled hunter permit down in the St Helens area a couple years ago, he shot at a cow in a herd of 8 or so and I think most of them were limping.

Then later we watched another larger herd and I bet half of them were limping.  It is a sad deal.

I wonder if burning the cuts would be a benefit by killing off some of the bacteria?    I wonder if there is a way they can study that?

 It would be a shame to have the healthy (seemingly anyway) elk have the bacteria get on their hooves.

I guess WDFW just was hoping the problem would just go away on its own, but that has not proved to be the case.     

[pianoman9701]

Well, when someone talks about MHs and then "us mere humans" it's sounding a bit like what I took it for. I assume we're all better. Birdog, we all better? Sorry for the misunderstanding.