WDFW FAQ on Hoof Rot

[idahohuntr]

http://wdfw.wa.gov/help/categories/Sick%2C+Orphaned%2C+Injured+and+Dead+Wildlife/Diseased+Wildlife/Elk+Hoof+Disease/

I thought this link did a pretty good job addressing common questions about hoof disease observed in Washington State for folks that maybe haven't read much about it or had questions as hunting season is upon us.     

[jongosch]

So is the following passage a lie or a just a big misleading statement WDFW refuses to correct?  I'm quoting from the link you just provided:

"Timber companies use similar herbicide treatments along the West Coast, yet elk populations in other areas have not exhibited the symptoms associated with hoof disease seen in southwest Washington."

http://snovalleystar.com/2013/02/27/hoof-rot-strikes-elk
"Elk hoof rot, a disease seen predominantly among elk in Southwest Washington, has found its way to the Snoqualmie Valley herds."

http://www.oregonlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2014/08/elk_hoof_rot_outbreak_in_washi.html
"On the Oregon side of the Columbia River, two hunter-killed elk displayed symptoms similar to the Washington elk. Several other cases have been reported, but not yet evaluated."

Unless I'm mistaken, the Snoqualmie Valley and Oregon are not in southwest Washington.

[idahohuntr]

You have to take their statements out of context before you can make the leap that they are lying or incorrect...They were addressing the herbicide issue.  If it is herbicides, which have been applied regularly up and down the west coast, why would hoof rot be more prevalent in SW Wa and not generally distributed everywhere else herbicides are sprayed?  Now that we are seeing more cases away from the epicenter of SW Wa, it really seems to be proving wdfw is right about this being an infectious bacteria that thrives in moist soil.  There are reports of hoof rot throughout Wa state though, so its not as though wdfw ever made claims that it simply does not occur anywhere else.  Again, you have to take their response out of context to make your statement accurate.

[t6]

Why lie about where its been found?   ODFW intentionally attempted to hide their culling in Tillamook but failed to test the culled animals. 

Sorry, Like many, I do not trust WDFW or ODFW to tell me whats it appears they want me to believe. 

Their efforts are too little and sadly it appears to be too late.

If they want to be a trusted agency they will have to provide transparency and answers..... not the guesses they have so far provided.   

[idahohuntr]

I've seen no credible evidence to support your statement that wdfw has lied about where hoof rot has been found.  They have a map on their website depicting all reported locations all over western washington.  Its been there for a long time.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/health/hoof_disease/graphics/display_gis_all_wa_2_0_rptd_harv_y_v10_1_photo_20140324_wa_only.jpg

You say they are "guessing" right now, but I think you are unfairly characterizing uncertainty, which is present in all of the complex problems society faces.  I would be more afraid, and more suspect, if in the midst of a very complex problem we had people saying with absolute certainty what the cause/solution to the problem was.  I realize folks want answers sooner than later...we all do...but complex problems take time.  Look at Cancer, ALS, Diabetes, you name it...billions of dollars in research, decades and decades of effort, millions of lives lost...how come we don't have a cure?  Complex problems don't usually come with quick, easy answers no matter how bad we want them.

You seem to be suggesting WDFW and ODFW are involved in some sort of conspiracy and that they are trying to "make you believe" something which is false...but your provide no information on what their motive is and what it is they want you to believe.  Its easy to pick on large government organizations, many times they deserve it, but I just don't understand why any hunter would proactively work to undermine efforts to solve this problem...folks will seek out people with little background or knowledge of wildlife disease, but they won't pick up the phone and talk to the real experts...at least not with an open enough mind to have meaningful discussion. 

[bbarnes]

The funny thing is now Weyerhaeuser has changed all there spray permits.The DNR and the AG department has showed them ATRAZINE is a RESTRICTED use chemical in the state.It will not be allowed to be sprayed on most timber lands anymore.So were they breaking the law before ?Did it have a affect on our elk ?time will tell.

[pianoman9701]

Welcome back Bruce. It was great talking with you yesterday. As I emailed you this AM, an elk was taken near Indian Heaven with hoof disease this week. It's spreading fast. On another FaceBook post, another member of this forum reported seeing 90% hoof diseased affected elk on the coast range. We have a huge problem in WA and OR now, and not looking at every possible cause is foolhardy.

[jongosch]

I was recently forwarded an individual's correspondence with Stuart Love, Charleston District Wildlife Biologist with ODFW.  He wrote:

"The picture you took of the bull elk at Dean Creek with an issue involving his hoof was forwarded to me by BLM.  It looks to me like the bull is being affected by hoof rot.  This is a common malady in Roosevelt elk in the coast range."

This is one of several reports of hoof rot in the Dean Creek area which is of course closer to California than Washington.  But what really interests me is that he states that "this is a common malady in Roosevelt elk in the coast range."  Not according to our WDFW officials.  So is this just ignorance on their part?

Now while you're pondering that, consider that one of Oregon's wildlife vets and epidemiologists, Dr. Julia Burco, a lady who has been quoted in several newspapers on the issue of hoof rot, actually sits on WDFW's expert scientific panel / technical advisory group.  So why is this information not being shared?  Do these officials really deserve our trust and respect when they can get such a vital component of this case so blatantly wrong?  Here's the quote again, straight from WDFW's website:

"Timber companies use similar herbicide treatments along the West Coast, yet elk populations in other areas have not exhibited the symptoms associated with hoof disease seen in southwest Washington."

This is not a trivial point.  This line of reasoning has been WDFW's main excuse for not investigating the role forest chemicals may be playing in this disease.  Now that it's been proven false, will they look into herbicides?  Will they even admit that they've been wrong?

[Bob33]

I was recently forwarded an individual's correspondence with Stuart Love, Charleston District Wildlife Biologist with ODFW.  He wrote:

"The picture you took of the bull elk at Dean Creek with an issue involving his hoof was forwarded to me by BLM.  It looks to me like the bull is being affected by hoof rot.  This is a common malady in Roosevelt elk in the coast range."

This is one of several reports of hoof rot in the Dean Creek area which is of course closer to California than Washington.  But what really interests me is that he states that "this is a common malady in Roosevelt elk in the coast range."  Not according to our WDFW officials.  So is this just ignorance on their part?

Now while you're pondering that, consider that one of Oregon's wildlife vets and epidemiologists, Dr. Julia Burco, a lady who has been quoted in several newspapers on the issue of hoof rot, actually sits on WDFW's expert scientific panel / technical advisory group.  So why is this information not being shared?  Do these officials really deserve our trust and respect when they can get such a vital component of this case so blatantly wrong?  Here's the quote again, straight from WDFW's website:

"Timber companies use similar herbicide treatments along the West Coast, yet elk populations in other areas have not exhibited the symptoms associated with hoof disease seen in southwest Washington."

This is not a trivial point.  This line of reasoning has been WDFW's main excuse for not investigating the role forest chemicals may be playing in this disease.  Now that it's been proven false, will they look into herbicides?  Will they even admit that they've been wrong?

When did ODFW confirm the presence of hoof rot in Oregon elk, or are they also part of the coverup?

[idahohuntr]

I was recently forwarded an individual's correspondence with Stuart Love, Charleston District Wildlife Biologist with ODFW.  He wrote:

"The picture you took of the bull elk at Dean Creek with an issue involving his hoof was forwarded to me by BLM.  It looks to me like the bull is being affected by hoof rot.  This is a common malady in Roosevelt elk in the coast range."

This is one of several reports of hoof rot in the Dean Creek area which is of course closer to California than Washington.  But what really interests me is that he states that "this is a common malady in Roosevelt elk in the coast range."  Not according to our WDFW officials.  So is this just ignorance on their part?

Now while you're pondering that, consider that one of Oregon's wildlife vets and epidemiologists, Dr. Julia Burco, a lady who has been quoted in several newspapers on the issue of hoof rot, actually sits on WDFW's expert scientific panel / technical advisory group.  So why is this information not being shared?  Do these officials really deserve our trust and respect when they can get such a vital component of this case so blatantly wrong?  Here's the quote again, straight from WDFW's website:

"Timber companies use similar herbicide treatments along the West Coast, yet elk populations in other areas have not exhibited the symptoms associated with hoof disease seen in southwest Washington."

This is not a trivial point.  This line of reasoning has been WDFW's main excuse for not investigating the role forest chemicals may be playing in this disease.  Now that it's been proven false, will they look into herbicides?  Will they even admit that they've been wrong?

You are misinterpreting and cherry picking little pieces of evidence to push an agenda.  That is not science.  You need to look at the totality of available evidence.  Hoof rot has been observed throughout washington state (and Oregon and Californa and BC) for decades, probably longer.  In just the last few years something has significantly increased the prevalence of hoof rot in elk, almost exclusively in SW Wa.  When you look at the date/time/# of reported observations SW Wa appears to be the epicenter of this recent, much larger outrbreak, and many disease experts have stated that it appears the new observations are following the path of what one would expect of an infectious disease dispersing from an infected source population originating in SW Wa. 

More importantly, WDFW has not made "excuses" for not looking at herbicides and there is a lot of other evidence that leads them to believe this is an infectious bacteria not a toxicity issue.  This evidence comes from multiple detailed necropsies of infected animals.  Mountains of evidence exist that all point towards herbicides not being the cause of hoof rot.  So, unless folks have an agenda to push, I don't understand why there is a singular focus on one potential cause for which the evidence is so weak.  If you just want to solve the problem (hoof rot in elk)...who the heck cares what the cause turns out to be...identifying it and figuring out the best way to manage it should be the focus.     

[elk247]

Welcome back Bruce!!

[psychokitty]

jongosch: You should research the difference between hoof rot and digital dermatitis. They are not the same disease.

[t6]

Agenda?   What Agenda am I pushing?    NONE!     I simply want to have healthy elk.... I guess that's an agenda.       

And as far as distracting WDFW..... Thats laughable.  They've had 20 years.  I wasn't distracting them for the first 19.  What did the accomplish then?   

As far as I'm concerned, its time to replace the incompetence with independent study. 

Glad to have you back Bruce.  Hope your feeling better.

[idahohuntr]

They've had 20 years.  I wasn't distracting them for the first 19.  What did the accomplish then?   

I am confused by this "20 years" criticism of WDFW.  My understanding is hoof rot has been around forever and that occasionally there would be a year or two of increased hoof rot observations, but that it would then just return to pretty low prevalence on its own.  They couldn't explain why they would get these short duration upticks in hoof rot, but it apparently wasn't having a population level impact.  In 2008 or 09 they saw an uptick in hoof rot, but this time it was different...it did not return to normal in a year or two and that in combination with substantial public interest brings us to where we are today with WDFW having the very best resources working to solve this very complex and challenging problem which has left a multi-billion dollar livestock industry scratching its head for the past 20 some years. 

I think this history is important because I do not believe it is fair to spin the issue to make it sound like some disease has been ravaging elk herds for 20 years and wdfw just didn't care or want to do anything.  Its much more complex than that and if you take a look on some of the other threads around here you will quickly learn that hunters are not all that supportive of raising fees and taxes to accommodate every possible wildlife study, many of which could span decades in order to provide clear answers and management options on some of these complex problems.