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Author Topic: Wash. reports new wolf pack found  (Read 64542 times)

Offline idahohuntr

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Re: Wash. reports new wolf pack found
« Reply #60 on: September 17, 2014, 03:14:39 PM »
Its not "defending the wolves".  Its supporting the position that wolves need to be de-listed throughout the Northwest and stay that way.  Why you would advocate a position that would result in increased federal regulaion, ESA listing, and greater protections for a species that is no longer in need of said protections is not logical. 
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Wash. reports new wolf pack found
« Reply #61 on: September 17, 2014, 03:48:05 PM »
I just want to see aggressive predator management.

No reason not to have excellent Elk hunting in WA and specifically the NE, we've got the habitat for it in many locations throughout the state and the wintering areas for it.  We should have *a lot* more Elk in the NE corner.  Predators and humans keep herds small and struggling.  Deer -although way down from previous years- is still capable of quick rebounds if given the opportunity.

With proper and aggressive management there isn't any reason to not increase the ungulates and afford good public grazing opportunity.

I'm long past playing the blame game with wolves, none of that matters now.  How they got here, what species they are...all irrelevant now.


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Re: Wash. reports new wolf pack found
« Reply #62 on: September 17, 2014, 03:54:32 PM »
WDFW needs to scrap the wolf plan in favor of something much smaller like 5BP with no restrictions on location.  Who cares what side of the cascade ridge they're on?   Also it's the same wolves all across the west - so who cares how many WA has?   Limit them to low populations in wilderness areas. 

WDFW needs to scrap the cougar plan,  what a slap in the face that farce is...kill it!   cougar 24/7 365 no limit on tags.   The fact that they're so difficult to hunt will ensure there's plenty to go around.  Hardly anyone targets them anyways.


Remove the special draw on spring bear and make the E/WA 2 tags.

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Wash. reports new wolf pack found
« Reply #63 on: September 17, 2014, 03:58:52 PM »
Don't forget KF, with the WA wolf plan, management doesn't start for three years after we reach population AND disbursement goals. So, proper and aggressive management isn't going to take place for at least three years after 2 packs are established in the So. Cascades. They can't even admit to the first one that's there now.

As far as the specific species and whatever, it's only important when someone knows the facts that the real indigenous wolves, wolves which are listed on the ESA, have been sacrificed to the larger Canadian wolves. We've actually allowed an endangered species to become extinct by introducing another variety which doesn't naturally belong here. This is important, especially in light of comments from people who love the wolves and their presence in every corner of our state, when these people start talking about who was here first, the cattle or the wolf. The fact is, and it's important, that the wolves that were actually here first have been sacrificed by these people in their fervor to hear the howls in the night, regardless of the costs to the cattle, sheep, and tourism industries. The REAL WA wolves have been, in effect, thrown to the wolves.
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Re: Wash. reports new wolf pack found
« Reply #64 on: September 17, 2014, 04:09:23 PM »
 :yeah:

I agree,  I'd love to see a massive class action and a "superfund" style wolf clean up.  I'd like to see everyone with a hand in this be held accountable!  Prison time baby!!



but for now I want to apply pressure to WDFW and local legislatures.  All that stuff will have to follow later, when we elect a proper governor   :chuckle:  (ya right)
I'm pretty tickled at some of the things Stevens county is doing; if more and more counties get on board then that'll apply even more pressure to the state to rethink all this nonsense.

Offline idahohuntr

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Re: Wash. reports new wolf pack found
« Reply #65 on: September 17, 2014, 04:20:05 PM »
Wolf pack numbers in Wa are predicated on estimates of extinction probability in WA state...more packs = lower probability of extinction.  Its a policy call...how much risk are you willing to accept that wolves will go extinct in WA? Many on this forum would accept a very high level of risk the poor wolves go extinct  :chuckle:  The patrons of the seattle starbucks...well, they really want to make sure they can hear a wolf howl someday if they ever make it over to crazy uncle KF's house in the sticks.  :chuckle:  :sry:

On the cougar plan...does it really make a difference?  With no hounds...changing it to your liberal seasons I don't really see it changing cougar numbers at all  :dunno:  I also don't see the impacts to deer you describe...in 24/7 trail cam monitoring on a bait station, I've got 1 cougar picture in a year and I literally have 20-50 deer a day coming in at times...I'm pretty sure my deer are eating the cougars  :chuckle: :chuckle:


As far as the specific species and whatever, it's only important when someone knows the facts that the real indigenous wolves, wolves which are listed on the ESA, have been sacrificed to the larger Canadian wolves. We've actually allowed an endangered species to become extinct by introducing another variety which doesn't naturally belong here. This is important, especially in light of comments from people who love the wolves and their presence in every corner of our state, when these people start talking about who was here first, the cattle or the wolf. The fact is, and it's important, that the wolves that were actually here first have been sacrificed by these people in their fervor to hear the howls in the night, regardless of the costs to the cattle, sheep, and tourism industries. The REAL WA wolves have been, in effect, thrown to the wolves.
There is no factual basis to claims that wolves from canada used for reintroduction are different in any substantive way.  It remains illogical to want aggressive wolf management yet support talking points of the Defenders of Wildlife on why wolves should remain ESA protected.  Oh, and there is no doubt wolves were here before cattle  :tup:

I agree,  I'd love to see a massive class action and a "superfund" style wolf clean up.  I'd like to see everyone with a hand in this be held accountable!  Prison time baby!!
 
 :tinfoil: Prison? For complying with federal law?  Doesn't work that way...sorry. 
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Offline bearpaw

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Re: Wash. reports new wolf pack found
« Reply #66 on: September 17, 2014, 04:42:20 PM »
Here are some facts about wolf subspecies:

FACT: North American wolves were classified as many different subspecies prior to the introduction in ID/YNP
FACT: Wolves in the NRM (ID/MT/WY) were classified as canis lupus irremotus
FACT: Wolves from Alberta to the McKenzie valley were classified as canis lupus occidentalis
FACT: The northern wolves which were planted in ID/YNP were originally considered a different subspecie canis lupus occidentalis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspecies_of_Canis_lupus
http://www.wolfhowl.org/subspecies.php (map showing areas of subspecies)

Note: If the subspecies of wolves were recognized as different, it's unlikely canis lupus occidentalis could have planted  in ID/YNP if canis lupus irremotus was the resident wolf, it was very convenient for the USFWS the way things worked out for these subspecies to be reclassified as one wolf "canis lupus" just before they planted them.

Now that the northern wolf canis lupus occidentalis was planted and has multiplied greatly and likely polluted the blood of the native wolves, most likely killing or breeding them out of existence, it probably doesn't matter, it's an old argument that is too late to be corrected, the impacts are irreversible.

Now that western North American wolves are classified as one wolf "canis lupus" they were delisted in much of the west and there is a proposal to delist in most states in the US. Essentially, wolf groups are now trying to regain other classifications of certain sub-species so that they can prevent delisting in certain areas. This is a game the wolf groups are playing to further their cause of promoting wolves.

My position is that the USFWS already messed up, the wolves were planted, genetics have been messed up, now we have only one specie of wolf "canis lupus" in most of the western US and Canada, with the exception of the Mexican wolf and perhaps the arctic wolf. These wolves should all be delisted since there are 60,000+ cross bred "canis lupus" wolves.

The fact that we now have essentially one wolf should not vindicate USFWS and other agencies for their involvement in essentially destroying the subspecies of wolf known as canis lupus irremotus which has likely been killed or bred out of existence by canis lupus occidentalis which was introduced by these agencies and has very successfully multiplied and spread across the western US.

After wolves were planted and multiplied now the wolf groups want to have the cake and eat it too. They now want to claim there are other subspecies. I think it's too late for the wolf groups to successfully argue that all these subspecies still exist. It's public record that canis lupus occidentalis was planted, multiplied rapidly, has traveled, and is breeding all over the western US.  :twocents:



USFWS tells the story of reclassifying wolves to fit their needs:
http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/fws_wolf-5yr-review_feb2012.pdf

U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Washington Office
Arlington, VA

5-YEAR REVIEW
Species reviewed: Lower 48-State and Mexico gray wolf (Canis lupus) listing, as revised
1.0 GENERAL INFORMATION
1.1 Reviewers
Lead Office: Endangered Species Program, Headquarters Office, Arlington, VA
Cooperating Regional Offices: Endangered Species Program, Regions 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 8.
1.2 Methodology used to complete the review: This 5-year status review was initiated on
May 5, 2011, in conjunction with the Service’s proposed rule to revise the list of endangered
and threatened wildlife for the gray wolf in the Eastern United States (76 FR 26086). This
review was a national effort (see cooperating offices above) lead by the Headquarters Office in
Arlington, VA. None of this review was contracted out.

1.3 Background:
1.3.1 FR Notice citation announcing initiation of this review: Endangered and Threatened
Wildlife and Plants; Proposed Rule to Revise the List of Endangered and Threatened Wildlife for
the Gray Wolf in the Eastern United States, Initiation of Status Reviews for the Gray Wolf and
for the Eastern Wolf (76 FR 26086, May 5, 2011)
1.3.2 Wolf biology: For information on the biology of gray wolves refer to the preambles of
our previous actions (68 FR 15804, April 1, 2003; 74 FR 15123, April 2, 2009; 75 FR 46894,
August 4, 2010; 76 FR 81666, December 28, 2011).
1.3.3 Listing history: Gray wolves were originally listed as subspecies or as regional
populations of subspecies in the conterminous United States and Mexico. In 1967, we listed
the eastern timber wolf (Canis lupus lycaon) in the Great Lakes region (32 FR 4001, March 11,
1967), and in 1973 we listed C. l. irremotus in the northern Rocky Mountains (38 FR 14678, June
4, 1973). Both listings were promulgated under the Endangered Species Conservation Act of
1969; subsequently, on January 4, 1974, these subspecies were listed under the Endangered
Species Act of 1973 (ESA) (39 FR 1171). We listed a third gray wolf subspecies, the Mexican
wolf (C. l. baileyi) as endangered on April 28, 1976 (41 FR 17740), in the southwestern United
States and Mexico. On June 14, 1976 (41 FR 24064), we listed the Texas gray wolf subspecies
(C. l. monstrabilis) as endangered in Texas and Mexico.

In 1978, we published a rule (43 FR 9607, March 9, 1978) reclassifying the gray wolf as an
endangered population at the species level (C. lupus) throughout the conterminous 48 States
and Mexico, except for the Minnesota gray wolf population, which was classified as threatened.

At that time, we considered the gray wolf group in Minnesota to be a listable entity under the
ESA, and we considered the gray wolf group in Mexico and the 48 conterminous States other
than Minnesota to be another listable entity (43 FR 9607 and 9610, respectively, March 9,
1978). The separate subspecies listings thus were subsumed into the listings for the gray wolf
in Minnesota and the gray wolf in the rest of the conterminous United States and Mexico. In
that 1978 rule, we also identified critical habitat in Michigan and Minnesota and promulgated
special regulations under section 4(d) of the ESA for operating a wolf management program in
Minnesota. The special regulation was later modified (50 FR 50793, December 12, 1985).
The 1978 reclassification was undertaken to “most conveniently” handle a listing that needed
to be revised because of changes in our understanding of wolf taxonomy, and in recognition of
the fact that individual wolves sometimes cross subspecific boundaries. In addition, we sought
to clarify that the gray wolf was only listed south of the Canadian border. However, the 1978
rule also stipulated that “biological subspecies would continue to be maintained and dealt with
as separate entities” (43 FR 9609), and offered “the firmest assurance that [the Service] will
continue to recognize valid biological subspecies for purposes of its research and conservation
programs” (43 FR 9610, March 9, 1978). Accordingly, recovery plans were developed for the
wolf populations in the following regions of the United States: the northern Rocky Mountains
in 1980, revised in 1987; the Great Lakes in 1978, revised in 1992; and the Southwest in 1982,
the revision of which is now underway.

Between 2003 and 2009 we published several rules revising the 1978 conterminous listing for C.
lupus (68 FR 15804, April 1, 2003; 72 FR 6052, February 8, 2007; 73 FR 10514, February 27,
2008; 74 FR 15070 and 74 FR 15123, April 2, 2009). However, each of these revisions was
challenged in court. As a result of court orders (Defenders of Wildlife, et al. v. Norton, et al., 354
F.Supp.2d 1156 (D. Or. 2005); National Wildlife Federation, et al. v. Norton, et al., 386 F.Supp.2d
553 (D. Vt. 2005); Defenders of Wildlife, et al. v. Hall, et al., 565 F.Supp.2d 1160 (D. Mont.
2008); Defenders of Wildlife, et al. v. Salazar, et al., 729 F.Supp.2d 1207 (D. Mont. 2010);
Humane Society of the United States v. Kempthorne, 579 F. Supp. 2d 7 (D.D.C. 2008)) and, in
one case, a settlement agreement (Humane Society of the United States v. Salazar, 1:09-CV-
1092-PLF (D.D.C.)), by the spring of 2010 the listing for C. lupus in 50 CFR 17.11 remained
unchanged from the reclassification that occurred in 1978 (except for the addition of the three
experimental populations (Yellowstone Experimental Population Area (59 FR 60252, November
22, 1994), Central Idaho Experimental Population Area (59 FR 60266, November 22, 1994), and
the Mexican Wolf Experimental Population (63 FR 1752, January 12, 1998)). For additional
information on these Federal Actions and their associated litigation history refer to the relevant
associated rules (68 FR 15804, April 1, 2003; 72 FR 6052, February 8, 2007; 73 FR 10514,
February 27, 2008; 74 FR 15070 and 74 FR 15123, April 2, 2009) or Previous Federal Actions
sections of our most recent wolf actions (76 FR 61782, October 5, 2011; 76 FR 81666,
December 28, 2011).

On May 5, 2011, we published a final rule that implemented Section 1713 of Public Law 112–10,
reinstating our April 2, 2009, delisting rule which identified the Northern Rocky Mountain
(NRM) population of gray wolf as a distinct population segment (DPS) and, with the exception

of Wyoming, removed gray wolves in the DPS from the List of Endangered and Threatened
Wildlife (76 FR 25590). Although gray wolves in Wyoming were not included in the May 5th final
delisting, we have since proposed to remove gray wolves in Wyoming from the List (76 FR
61782, October 5, 2011).

On December 28, 2011, we revised the 1978 listing of the Minnesota population of gray wolves
to conform to current statutory and policy requirements. We revised what was previously
listed as the Minnesota population of the gray wolf and identified it as the Western Great Lakes
(WGL) Distinct Population Segment (DPS) (the DPS includes all of Minnesota, Wisconsin, and
Michigan and portions of the adjacent states) and removed that WGL DPS from the List of
Endangered and Threatened Wildlife (76 FR 81666). This action became effective on January
27, 2012.

As a result of the recent actions described above, the 1978 reclassification for C. lupus now
encompasses all or portions of 42 States (AL, AR, CA, CO, CT, DE, FL, GA, KS, KY, LA, MA, MD,
ME, MO, MS, NC, NE, NH, NJ, NV, NY, OK, PA, RI, SC, TN, VA, VT and WV, AZ, NM, TX, and
portions of IA, IN, IL, ND, OH, OR, SD, UT, and WA) and Mexico (Figure 1). Therefore, this
review, a review of the listed entity, is limited to this remainder of the 1978 reclassification,
except where historical context and a wider discussion would benefit the reader’s
understanding of the current listed entity. Although gray wolves in Wyoming remain protected
under the ESA, they are part of the Northern Rocky Mountain DPS and are proposed for
delisting (76 FR 61782, October 5, 2011). Therefore, gray wolves in Wyoming are not part of
this status review.
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Offline bearpaw

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Re: Wash. reports new wolf pack found
« Reply #67 on: September 17, 2014, 04:52:05 PM »
Quote
On the cougar plan...does it really make a difference?  With no hounds...changing it to your liberal seasons I don't really see it changing cougar numbers at all  :dunno:  I also don't see the impacts to deer you describe...in 24/7 trail cam monitoring on a bait station, I've got 1 cougar picture in a year and I literally have 20-50 deer a day coming in at times...I'm pretty sure my deer are eating the cougars  :chuckle: :chuckle:

I'm not going to question your abilities as a hunter, but we have seen 8 cougars with our own eyes this year while turkey and bear hunting with no trail cameras involved and we managed to get photos or video of 6 of them. I didn't see 8 cougars without using hounds in my first 20 years of hunting and guiding. Cougar numbers are seriously skewed!

I remember a methow rancher who's kids all shot cougars out of their yard last winter.  :chuckle:
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Offline bearpaw

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Re: Wash. reports new wolf pack found
« Reply #68 on: September 17, 2014, 05:12:33 PM »
:yeah:

I agree,  I'd love to see a massive class action and a "superfund" style wolf clean up.  I'd like to see everyone with a hand in this be held accountable!  Prison time baby!!



but for now I want to apply pressure to WDFW and local legislatures.  All that stuff will have to follow later, when we elect a proper governor   :chuckle:  (ya right)
I'm pretty tickled at some of the things Stevens county is doing; if more and more counties get on board then that'll apply even more pressure to the state to rethink all this nonsense.

 :yeah:  County commissioners essentially told the county: You have constitutional rights, if you feel you or your property is threatened, shoot the wolves, we will not prosecute you. (not an exact quote)
Americans are systematically advocating, legislating, and voting away each others rights. Support all user groups & quit losing opportunity!

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Offline idahohuntr

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Re: Wash. reports new wolf pack found
« Reply #69 on: September 17, 2014, 05:15:56 PM »
Quote
On the cougar plan...does it really make a difference?  With no hounds...changing it to your liberal seasons I don't really see it changing cougar numbers at all  :dunno:  I also don't see the impacts to deer you describe...in 24/7 trail cam monitoring on a bait station, I've got 1 cougar picture in a year and I literally have 20-50 deer a day coming in at times...I'm pretty sure my deer are eating the cougars  :chuckle: :chuckle:

I'm not going to question your abilities as a hunter, but we have seen 8 cougars with our own eyes this year while turkey and bear hunting with no trail cameras involved and we managed to get photos or video of 6 of them. I didn't see 8 cougars without using hounds in my first 20 years of hunting and guiding. Cougar numbers are seriously skewed!

I remember a methow rancher who's kids all shot cougars out of their yard last winter.  :chuckle:
Yea, I suspect cougars are far less susceptible to show up on a camera at an artificial bait station...and I know there are plenty around.  Washington is the only state I've seen cougars that weren't sitting in a tree with dogs barking below them!  But I really am shocked at how little evidence/indication of cougar predation I see...I can watch all the same bucks grow throughout the year...the fawn numbers stay pretty similar for as long as I can reliably id them...I see the same numbers of does...I would think I'd have cougars sitting right next to my blind all night waiting for easy meals... :dunno: Any ideas on why I'm overrun with deer and just not seeing evidence of much cougar predation...knowing there are cougars all around?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood..." - TR

Offline jasnt

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Re: Wash. reports new wolf pack found
« Reply #70 on: September 17, 2014, 05:19:36 PM »
Quote
On the cougar plan...does it really make a difference?  With no hounds...changing it to your liberal seasons I don't really see it changing cougar numbers at all  :dunno:  I also don't see the impacts to deer you describe...in 24/7 trail cam monitoring on a bait station, I've got 1 cougar picture in a year and I literally have 20-50 deer a day coming in at times...I'm pretty sure my deer are eating the cougars  :chuckle: :chuckle:

I'm not going to question your abilities as a hunter, but we have seen 8 cougars with our own eyes this year while turkey and bear hunting with no trail cameras involved and we managed to get photos or video of 6 of them. I didn't see 8 cougars without using hounds in my first 20 years of hunting and guiding. Cougar numbers are seriously skewed!

I remember a methow rancher who's kids all shot cougars out of their yard last winter.  :chuckle:

yup if the season was open like coyote then I'd have gotten a chance at 4 cougar in the last 12 months. Maybe even more cause I would be targeting them more than just September threw Dec. Seems its always closed for late season in my areas
https://www.howlforwildlife.org/take_action  It takes 10 seconds and it’s free. To easy to make an excuse not to make your voice heard!!!!!!

The commission shall attempt to maximize the public recreational game fishing and hunting opportunities of all citizens, including juvenile, disabled, and senior citizens.
https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.04.012

Offline Mudman

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Re: Wash. reports new wolf pack found
« Reply #71 on: September 17, 2014, 05:32:22 PM »
I know cougar pop. is way up on the wetside.  I have encountered them several times in recent years vs 1 in 15years.  Saw a few pics of 7 and one on the deck looking through sliding door.  No joke. Playing in the apple trees.  Remote home bordering WEYCO.  As for wolves my recent departed neighbor told me stories of his youth, His father logged old growth from Capitol forest.  Wolves were present.  Not an issue for the camps or kids.  Very reclusive he said.  Not the Grays they planted and I trust his knowledge.
MAGA!  Again..

Offline KFhunter

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Re: Wash. reports new wolf pack found
« Reply #72 on: September 17, 2014, 05:42:28 PM »
Quote
On the cougar plan...does it really make a difference?  With no hounds...changing it to your liberal seasons I don't really see it changing cougar numbers at all  :dunno:  I also don't see the impacts to deer you describe...in 24/7 trail cam monitoring on a bait station, I've got 1 cougar picture in a year and I literally have 20-50 deer a day coming in at times...I'm pretty sure my deer are eating the cougars  :chuckle: :chuckle:

I'm not going to question your abilities as a hunter, but we have seen 8 cougars with our own eyes this year while turkey and bear hunting with no trail cameras involved and we managed to get photos or video of 6 of them. I didn't see 8 cougars without using hounds in my first 20 years of hunting and guiding. Cougar numbers are seriously skewed!

I remember a methow rancher who's kids all shot cougars out of their yard last winter.  :chuckle:

I called in 3 of them last winter,  but since I'm a very poor hunter I didn't get to fill a tag.  I'm new to calling cougar though but I think I got a good handle on them now. 

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Re: Wash. reports new wolf pack found
« Reply #73 on: September 17, 2014, 05:44:56 PM »
:yeah:

I agree,  I'd love to see a massive class action and a "superfund" style wolf clean up.  I'd like to see everyone with a hand in this be held accountable!  Prison time baby!!



but for now I want to apply pressure to WDFW and local legislatures.  All that stuff will have to follow later, when we elect a proper governor   :chuckle:  (ya right)
I'm pretty tickled at some of the things Stevens county is doing; if more and more counties get on board then that'll apply even more pressure to the state to rethink all this nonsense.

 :yeah:  County commissioners essentially told the county: You have constitutional rights, if you feel you or your property is threatened, shoot the wolves, we will not prosecute you. (not an exact quote)

This is dangerous because the state can poach the case and prosecute someone over on the wetside,  with wetside jurists  :o

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Re: Wash. reports new wolf pack found
« Reply #74 on: September 17, 2014, 05:49:51 PM »
Quote
On the cougar plan...does it really make a difference?  With no hounds...changing it to your liberal seasons I don't really see it changing cougar numbers at all  :dunno:  I also don't see the impacts to deer you describe...in 24/7 trail cam monitoring on a bait station, I've got 1 cougar picture in a year and I literally have 20-50 deer a day coming in at times...I'm pretty sure my deer are eating the cougars  :chuckle: :chuckle:

I'm not going to question your abilities as a hunter, but we have seen 8 cougars with our own eyes this year while turkey and bear hunting with no trail cameras involved and we managed to get photos or video of 6 of them. I didn't see 8 cougars without using hounds in my first 20 years of hunting and guiding. Cougar numbers are seriously skewed!

I remember a methow rancher who's kids all shot cougars out of their yard last winter.  :chuckle:
Yea, I suspect cougars are far less susceptible to show up on a camera at an artificial bait station...and I know there are plenty around.  Washington is the only state I've seen cougars that weren't sitting in a tree with dogs barking below them!  But I really am shocked at how little evidence/indication of cougar predation I see...I can watch all the same bucks grow throughout the year...the fawn numbers stay pretty similar for as long as I can reliably id them...I see the same numbers of does...I would think I'd have cougars sitting right next to my blind all night waiting for easy meals... :dunno: Any ideas on why I'm overrun with deer and just not seeing evidence of much cougar predation...knowing there are cougars all around?

Cougar are very secretive and rarely seen. You need to understand their habits and know where they live to find them consistently. 35 years ago it took us a week to find an adult cougar track of either sex without kittens to chase for a hunter. Seasons were reduced and cougar tags put on a draw after a few years and about 20 years ago just before the voters outlawed hounds I could find an average of about 5 adult cougar tracks per day.

Now you need to come up and ride with me this winter, I will show you at least 10 adult cougar tracks in a day. WDFW has a quota of only 2 cougar in one unit and the other units really aren't much better considering they are much larger in size. The quotas need to be doubled or tripled to try and reduce the cat numbers. I'm not even sure that would reduce the population much.



Kf, I can't remember exactly how they said it, you probably heard about it, wasn't that pretty much the meat and potatoes of it?
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