BEFORE THE BOARD OF STEVENS COUNTY COMMISSIONERS

[RG]

And you can be assured WDFW and NFWS understand these concepts as well. They wish we didn't. When the wolves get to the elk feeding stations and prevent the elk from coming to feed the losses will be called winter kill and wolves will be credited with helping to clean up the sick and weak.   I think they call that collateral damage.

[PA BEN]

Andersons reply seems genuine.  It clearly acknowledges that self defense and defense of livestock is perfectly legal in E. Wa and that they may be giving a false sense of what is legal.  He very correctly reminds the commissioners that they do not manage the wildlife...that responsibility belongs to the state, not individual municipalities within the state...Thank goodnness!!

Yep, he said that, BUT, even the WDFW knows that there are too many bears and cougars out there, but because it went to the voters and passed into law, (RCW), their hands are tied and can not manage wildlife. IE; Baiting and hound hunting.

[pianoman9701]

Wildlife management is indeed the job of the WDFW. However, it seems obvious to everyone except two members on this forum that they're not doing their job. The Stevens County commissioners have done the right thing.

[CAMPMEAT]

The Ferry County commissioners are working on doing the same, exact thing as Stevens County. We are supposed to report, to the Sherriff, any and all types of wolf sightings, hair, poop etc of any sort.

[bearpaw]

I think Anderson's reply was accurate, genuine, and well written. His job is to represent the state which he did really well and his response was written in as cordial of a fashion as possible.

The County Commissioners job is to represent the county and it's people, I think they are doing a really good job too. I commend them for doing all they can do to try and influence this wolf situation. If more eastside counties would get on board perhaps the legislature would take action.

The problem is that the state (which is mostly westside residents) want wolves but don't want to live with them as has been proven via Kretz's bill to transplant wolves to western WA which was opposed by westside legislators. The westside (generally speaking) think wolves belong in eastern Washington and it's really convenient since the westside doesn't have to live with them. They expect the eastside people to change our lives and suffer the financial losses of living with wolves.

Inaction by the westside will force eastside residents to react in the only fashion available. Not saying it's right, just saying what the options look like to more and more eastside residents. This whole wolf fiasco is not healthy for modern wildlife management.

[pianoman9701]

I think that whether or not Kretz's bill was seriously considered, wolves will indeed be moving into the West side of the state and have, in fact, already. The residents of King and Pierce Co.s will not forever be without the consequences of their actions in support of the outrageous WA wolf plan.

[thatdamguy]

Stating that compensation somehow makes it unreasonable to defend your livestock from a wolf is BS!! 


"compensation" is woefully short of compensating a livestock owner for their losses, it's a slap in the face to livestock owners.

you hit on something there that I see also but too few people seem to recognize. When someone raises livestock they are taking on a large responsibility to care for those animals. I would have little respect for a stockman whose response to his stock being kill was “oh well I’ll get compensated for it”. What stockmen are being asked to do is control their sense of responsibility and override years of learning and peer pressure. I do respect those who continue to obey the law but I can see that it is no easy matter.  Personally I don’t see where allowing people to defend their livestock will hinder wolf recovery. For that matter I don’t think a hunting season on wolves is a bad idea either.   

You talk about emotional investment, and you're correct to varying degrees.  There are livestock owners with strong ties to their livestock, as strong as family pet owners...but there are others with much less emotional investment as well.  Impossible to quantify and purely case by case.

I'm also talking about financial compensation.  The sheep grower is missing over 200 sheep, but is only eligible for something like 18 sheep for compensation; what about the 182 sheep lost?   If you can't find the sheep you can't determine a wolf killed them.  That is another aspect where compensation fails.

Another failure of compensation, and perhaps a bigger one is the a herd of cattle that is being pressured by wolves does not put on as much weight as a herd without consatant harrassment from wolves.  http://oregonstate.edu/ua/ncs/archives/2014/mar/cows-witnessing-wolf-attacks-suffer-symptoms-similar-ptsd 

Another aspect is unbred cattle,  there's no compensation for all the calves that won't be born if your bull is run off never to be found again.  (true story)

The livestock owner forks out a lot of extra time and gas money, hires more employees in wolf areas - again no compensation.

WDFW says  "Oh a bear did that, Oh a cougar did that, Oh a coyote did that, Oh a killer Llama did that"....again no compensation.

The biggest losses is overall herd weight and calf loss and increased expenditure in time and resources but none of that is compensated.


"compensation" is a total farce that's used to give legal standing to WDFW to prevent livestock owners from reasonably defending their livestock from depredation from an endangered species.  The court holds that it's NOT reasonable to defend your livestock if it's subject to compensation AND to top it all off the court case was precedent on Elk eating a hayfield   

This needs challenged and defeated.

 

Absolutely correct, also many Idaho and Montana ranchers have been discovering that the average weight of the born animals in wolf prone areas are less and again there is no compensation.
As Campmeat said Ferry county and other counties need to take similar action.

[timberfaller]

"He very correctly reminds the commissioners that they do not manage the wildlife...that responsibility belongs to the state, not individual municipalities within the state...Thank goodnness!!"

A little history lesson!

In the 1940's there were very few deer in the Methow Valley, had it not been for the "county" managing the Wildlife(that's what county's did before there was a Game Dept)YOU would have have seen the herds of the 60's and 70's.

It was a very sad day when they turned it over to the state!! 

Maybe it high time to return CONTROL back to the Locals!!!!!  Get Olympia out, so problems can get solved!!

[KFhunter]

I think that whether or not Kretz's bill was seriously considered, wolves will indeed be moving into the West side of the state and have, in fact, already. The residents of King and Pierce Co.s will not forever be without the consequences of their actions in support of the outrageous WA wolf plan.

Hoof rot might be the thing that finally gets wolves delisted statewide and usher in an era of better wolf management. 

My prediction is the wolves are going to have a heyday in the hoof rot areas and multiply like crazy,  the Elk will run out and they'll devastate the deer, then on to domestics and people's pets.   

Then we'll see a huge outcry and the tide will turn.

[idahohuntr]

"He very correctly reminds the commissioners that they do not manage the wildlife...that responsibility belongs to the state, not individual municipalities within the state...Thank goodnness!!"

A little history lesson!

In the 1940's there were very few deer in the Methow Valley, had it not been for the "county" managing the Wildlife(that's what county's did before there was a Game Dept)YOU would have have seen the herds of the 60's and 70's.

It was a very sad day when they turned it over to the state!! 

Maybe it high time to return CONTROL back to the Locals!!!!!  Get Olympia out, so problems can get solved!!

You need a little history lesson there Timber...at no point were individual counties the managers of the States wildlife!


March 1890 - The first Fish Commissioner was James Crawford, appointed by Governor Elisha Ferry

1891 - State Legislature appropriated funds for a salmon hatchery.

1895 - The first salmon hatchery was built and dedicated in 1895 on the Kalama River.

1915 - Legislature passed a new Game and Game-Fish Code that provided for a Chief Game Warden and a Fish Commissioner both managed under Chief Game Warden L. H. Darwin, Department of Fish and Game

1921 - Legislature abolished the Fish Commission and replaced it with a Department of Fisheries with a Division of Fisheries and a Division of Game and Game Fish.

1932 - An initiative separated food fish and game fish and created a Department of Fisheries (food fish) under an appointed Director and a Department of Game (game fish) under a six member commission.

1987 - Legislature changed Department of Game, with a Commission-appointed director, to Department of Wildlife with a Director appointed by the Governor.

1994 - Legislature merged Department of Wildlife and Department of Fisheries, creating Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW).  WDFW has a 9-member Commission and the WDFW Director is appointed by the Commission.

[AspenBud]

I think that whether or not Kretz's bill was seriously considered, wolves will indeed be moving into the West side of the state and have, in fact, already. The residents of King and Pierce Co.s will not forever be without the consequences of their actions in support of the outrageous WA wolf plan.

Hoof rot might be the thing that finally gets wolves delisted statewide and usher in an era of better wolf management. 

My prediction is the wolves are going to have a heyday in the hoof rot areas and multiply like crazy,  the Elk will run out and they'll devastate the deer, then on to domestics and people's pets.   

Then we'll see a huge outcry and the tide will turn.

Management in those areas is going to be tough with Weyerhaeuser making people pay $150.00 to play. That's a lot of land for wolves to live on with relatively little pressure.

[KFhunter]

wolf management is tough anywhere, and in that deep timber good luck!

[AspenBud]

wolf management is tough anywhere, and in that deep timber good luck!

It will be a real headache for the state as it means having some rather tense conversations with private timber with regards to hunting access. In that regard wolves could be a good thing since it may force timber companies into opening the land up again. But if it doesn't, well, I think none of us have seen anything yet. How do you manage a predator that has vast tracts of land to live on? Land that a lot of people won't pay to hunt on or can't afford to? Land owned by a company that is relatively unaffected by wolves in those areas? 

I don't know what the count is now, but at the start of the season I heard that Weyerhaeuser had sold less than 2000 of their 15,000 permits for the St Helens tree farm. That number will plummet further if wolves go to town in there.

[KFhunter]

WDFW can come and go off timber lands as they see fit, there's never been any issues with that.  Timber corps love WDFW on their lands, free law enforcement to help drive out the riffraff.

If you're looking for a silver lining, access isn't it.  There isn't any silver lining other than sick Elk will become dead Elk a little bit faster.

[AspenBud]

WDFW can come and go off timber lands as they see fit, there's never been any issues with that.  Timber corps love WDFW on their lands, free law enforcement to help drive out the riffraff.

If you're looking for a silver lining, access isn't it.  There isn't any silver lining other than sick Elk will become dead Elk a little bit faster.

WDFW can, but hunters can not. Once wolves are on private timber land there is no managing them if it's locked up or made so expensive people won't hunt it.

The problem with hoof rot at the moment is no one knows what is causing it. If it's herbicides or pesticides that's one thing, if it's disease it's probably an indication that the herd needs to be culled a little more soas to keep the population more fit and able to deal with the coming threat better. A sick herd will die fast.

And I can tell you now that every guy I've talked to who hunts Roosevelt elk in that area has told me very few they saw did not have some sign of it.