BEFORE THE BOARD OF STEVENS COUNTY COMMISSIONERS

[KFhunter]

I think easy meat will overcome habitat, at least for a while.

unless the wolves get pad rot 

[AspenBud]

I think easy meat will overcome habitat, at least for a while.

unless the wolves get pad rot 

True. But my point is some portions of the state complain about mountain lions more than others and some have more than others. That phenomenon may well turn out to be true of wolves as well. I don't know.   

When the issue of predators comes up there is usually one part of the state that is loudest, it's the same area that is loudest about wolves. Now either people are more predator crazed there or conditions are much more favorable to them than in others.

[pianoman9701]

Then add to that all the displaced lions coming into town

I'd almost be giddy to see the West side reap what they've sewn over here on the East side...but I'm bigger than that 

I'm actually looking forward to see the greenies have to actually face the consequences of their actions. I want to see their pets die. I want to see their children terrified and afraid to go outside, and I'd love nothing more than to see wolves walking down the streets of King and Pierce Co.s. I personally would have no problem facing down a wolf and actually think that the sick and limping elk of the Weyerhaeuser land will benefit. It probably won't be the biggest herd in the state anymore, but that's the way it goes. I know, other wet side hunters will scream, but this is what it'll take before they realize what they've done.

[headshot5]

I know, other wet side hunters will scream, but this is what it'll take before they realize what they've done.

What have the other wet side hunters done?   

[idahohuntr]

I stand by my hypothetical conjecture, it's a logical path to follow.

Chemicals in the forest making sick animals is a cause that just about every user group can rally against.  A guy would have to have some pretty thick blinders on to not think the timber companies are sweating just a little bit under the current scrutiny; scrutiny that is refreshed every time a hoof rot story makes the media.  A dozen Elk laying in a small field next to a highway starving to death is not a pretty sight.

Wolves can alleviate that problem, heck they'll probably be praised for making the herd "healthy, happy and stronger" just like the Disney wolves do.

.....meanwhile they breed and breed with the smorgasbord of easy to catch animals at their feet creating a wolf boom.  Remember, they're booming over here with large and very healthy Elk - give them 10,000's of sickly Elk and blacktail to feast upon 

I realize you are willing to stand behind this hypothetical notion of yours; what I see lacking is evidence for the bolded statement which would be critical to your whole scenario...or to make your scenario even remotely logical.  A panel of independent scientific experts does not believe chemicals used by timber companies cause hoof rot.  What evidence do you have to support your claim that these chemicals CAUSE hoof rot which has been missed by the entire panel of experts?

Anyways, its good to see that you support restrictions of private property owners that could possibly benefit the public at large.  I'm sure President Obama has appointed an EPA administrator who can craft some much stronger federal regulations to restrict the various activities of private land owners in the interest of the public.

[KFhunter]

I stand by my hypothetical conjecture, it's a logical path to follow.

Chemicals in the forest making sick animals is a cause that just about every user group can rally against.  A guy would have to have some pretty thick blinders on to not think the timber companies are sweating just a little bit under the current scrutiny; scrutiny that is refreshed every time a hoof rot story makes the media.  A dozen Elk laying in a small field next to a highway starving to death is not a pretty sight.

Wolves can alleviate that problem, heck they'll probably be praised for making the herd "healthy, happy and stronger" just like the Disney wolves do.

.....meanwhile they breed and breed with the smorgasbord of easy to catch animals at their feet creating a wolf boom.  Remember, they're booming over here with large and very healthy Elk - give them 10,000's of sickly Elk and blacktail to feast upon 

I realize you are willing to stand behind this hypothetical notion of yours; what I see lacking is evidence for the bolded statement which would be critical to your whole scenario...or to make your scenario even remotely logical.  A panel of independent scientific experts does not believe chemicals used by timber companies cause hoof rot.  What evidence do you have to support your claim that these chemicals CAUSE hoof rot which has been missed by the entire panel of experts?

Anyways, its good to see that you support restrictions of private property owners that could possibly benefit the public at large.  I'm sure President Obama has appointed an EPA administrator who can craft some much stronger federal regulations to restrict the various activities of private land owners in the interest of the public.

You're putting words in my mouth.

I never directly said "timber companies cause hoof rot by spraying". 

cause
kôz/Submit
noun
1.
a person or thing that gives rise to an action, phenomenon, or condition.
"the cause of the accident is not clear"
synonyms:   source, root, origin, beginning(s), starting point; More
antonyms:   effect, result
reasonable grounds for doing, thinking, or feeling something.
"Faye's condition had given no cause for concern"
synonyms:   reason, grounds, justification, call, need, necessity, occasion; More
2.
a principle, aim, or movement that, because of a deep commitment, one is prepared to defend or advocate.
"she devoted her life to the cause of deaf people"
synonyms:   principle, ideal, belief, conviction; More
3.
a matter to be resolved in a court of law.
an individual's case offered at law.
synonyms:   case, suit, lawsuit, action, dispute
"he went to plead his cause"
verb
verb: cause; 3rd person present: causes; past tense: caused; past participle: caused; gerund or present participle: causing
1.
make (something, typically something bad) happen.
"this disease can cause blindness"
synonyms:   bring about, give rise to, lead to, result in, create, produce, generate, engender, spawn, bring on, precipitate, prompt, provoke, trigger, make happen, induce, inspire, promote, foster; More

When I wrote "cause" I meant meaning #2  -  a movement or ideal that rally's people to a "cause".  In this case it's fighting against the timber companies for spraying crap in the forests, regardless if it actually does any harm or not.   Timber companies would not like this obviously, and the wolves could alleviate this by removing the sick animals.

Spotted Owl's was another "cause" the timber companies didn't like so much.


I'm glad to see that you acknowledge that wolves could boom on the west side consuming an easy prey source.

[idahohuntr]

and the back pedaling begins 

I'm not sure how wolves will respond on the west side...as Aspen mentioned, its somewhat uncharted territory.  There are plenty of areas in Idaho...and MT, WY for that matter...where wolves just don't occupy habitat that seems like they should be everywhere. 

[KFhunter]

There's no pedaling or water carrying for me,  you do that enough for all of us here on HW.  The mistake was yours, not mine.



For the habitat question, like I've said easy to catch hoof rotted Elk very well might overcome slightly unsuitable habitat, if indeed that's the case.

[pianoman9701]

Don't feed the trolls, KF.

[Special T]

Then add to that all the displaced lions coming into town

I'd almost be giddy to see the West side reap what they've sewn over here on the East side...but I'm bigger than that 

I'm actually looking forward to see the greenies have to actually face the consequences of their actions. I want to see their pets die. I want to see their children terrified and afraid to go outside, and I'd love nothing more than to see wolves walking down the streets of King and Pierce Co.s. I personally would have no problem facing down a wolf and actually think that the sick and limping elk of the Weyerhaeuser land will benefit. It probably won't be the biggest herd in the state anymore, but that's the way it goes. I know, other wet side hunters will scream, but this is what it'll take before they realize what they've done.

While i really dont want anyones kids hurt I do think it would be much better for those voting in some of these assine rules to be directly affected. I also think Seattle vacinity would become SAFER if wolves were around. The pan handlers and bums would need to seek shelter instead of camping out on the sidewalk and underpasses.

[AspenBud]

Then add to that all the displaced lions coming into town

I'd almost be giddy to see the West side reap what they've sewn over here on the East side...but I'm bigger than that 

I'm actually looking forward to see the greenies have to actually face the consequences of their actions. I want to see their pets die. I want to see their children terrified and afraid to go outside, and I'd love nothing more than to see wolves walking down the streets of King and Pierce Co.s. I personally would have no problem facing down a wolf and actually think that the sick and limping elk of the Weyerhaeuser land will benefit. It probably won't be the biggest herd in the state anymore, but that's the way it goes. I know, other wet side hunters will scream, but this is what it'll take before they realize what they've done.

While i really dont want anyones kids hurt I do think it would be much better for those voting in some of these assine rules to be directly affected. I also think Seattle vacinity would become SAFER if wolves were around. The pan handlers and bums would need to seek shelter instead of camping out on the sidewalk and underpasses.

Peoples' reactions won't be a lot different than how they react to cougars and bears. They'll call the state, maybe, and still sleep at night. You got a glimpse of it when the gentleman was attacked by a bear near Longview. The state was ready to kill the bear and he asked them not to...and the guy is a hunter. Rational people will remember that pets and people have been getting attacked by cougars, bear, and coyotes for some time now west of the mountains. Wolves will just be more of the same.

Having said that, it's like I said yesterday, wolves haven't occupied an area like west of the mountains in the lower 48. No one knows what will happen. But one thing is for sure, they won't blend into cities like coyotes and there are a lot more cars, dogs, and people with guns. They won't be in paradise anymore.

[pianoman9701]

Aspen, I completely disagree with your comparison of these predators. Wolves are completely different. They hunt in packs. Bears and cougars are mainly solitary. Coyotes are not only a fraction of the wolves' size, they have a much less developed ability to organize their attack they way that wolves do. In addition, as we've seen, wolves seem to kill not only for food, but for the sport of it. When the wetside residents start seeing for themselves the way these eaters hunt and kill, their reaction to it will be far different than how they react to the other predators.

[wolfbait]

Aspen, I completely disagree with your comparison of these predators. Wolves are completely different. They hunt in packs. Bears and cougars are mainly solitary. Coyotes are not only a fraction of the wolves' size, they have a much less developed ability to organize their attack they way that wolves do. In addition, as we've seen, wolves seem to kill not only for food, but for the sport of it. When the wetside residents start seeing for themselves the way these eaters hunt and kill, their reaction to it will be far different than how they react to the other predators.

I haven't met anyone yet who likes the wolves for the way they kill, and the way they waste. I remember when WDFW came out with the lie of first wolf pack in seventy years, and then a year later when so many people thought they were pro-wolf and expressed their views  which had been taught to them by the USFWS, WDFW, and environmentalist. Now the percentage of pro-wolf people have declined significantly, those of us who have had wolves shoved on us and told to deal with it are educating those who had/have no idea of what wolves really do. The lies of the environmentalists, USFWS and state game agencies have been exposed, 18 plus years of lies.

When WDFW finally have to start confirming wolves on the west side because of livestock predation, just like on the east side there will be many wolves and like the east side wolf problems will escalate, WDFW will come out with "wolves are expanding faster then we anticipated".

People who are not tied into the wolf agenda, and look through there own eyes with honesty want wolf control, predator control.

[KFhunter]

pro-wolfers are starting to loose their hope and change

[AspenBud]

Aspen, I completely disagree with your comparison of these predators. Wolves are completely different. They hunt in packs. Bears and cougars are mainly solitary. Coyotes are not only a fraction of the wolves' size, they have a much less developed ability to organize their attack they way that wolves do. In addition, as we've seen, wolves seem to kill not only for food, but for the sport of it. When the wetside residents start seeing for themselves the way these eaters hunt and kill, their reaction to it will be far different than how they react to the other predators.

It's not a comparison, it's a statement of fact. People have been attacked and have had pets and livestock killed by all of those for years west of the mountains. The concept is not new and most sane people don't lose a lot of sleep over it. Remember when the Columbian ran an article a couple years ago about mountain lions wandering the green belts around Salmon Creek? People didn't exactly come out with pitchforks.

If a pack of wolves wanders into downtown Seattle what do you think is going to happen? I'll tell you what, people will pick up a phone and the state will remove them just like they do with all of the aforementioned predators.

The people west of the mountains who will have something to be concerned about and be most affected will be the same ones who do east of them. Livestock owners, hunters, and possibly hikers. The wolf hugger wandering downtown Seattle isn't going to be all that affected.

And dead is dead, the how doesn't really matter to a lot of people.

When and if wolves hit here, it will be the novelty of it that will cause it to make news. This is predator country regardless of which side of the mountains you live on. People who don't grasp that need to get their heads screwed on tight.