just lost my bear area

[Coastal_native]

...Because it would make perfect sense for the Mucks to continue to allow people to hunt their property when those same people have been bad mouthing them and cursing them for years.

The mucks have come by any badmouthing that goes on honestly.

Even if that's true about ALL Mucks, unfortunately it's a "my ball, my rules" kind of game.  I doubt many landowners are going to give you permission to hunt their property if you call them a worthless POS right before you ask. (not you specifically)

[justyhntr]

Now that I'm over the dissipointment of loosing some of my bear hunting area I have to agree with  Coastal , they own it . And if I owned it I would keep the same area for myself as most of us would , it is the most under hunted area in the whole tree farm , the 3 main gates are a steep hike/ride so not to many people ever went in . At least they are allowing areas for hunting , a few years ago I was able to get permission to hunt Palmer Coking Coal property , but they totally shut us out .  Maybe there will be a possitive from this and it will ease some of their hunting presures from other areas . Only time will tell .

[papisjeep]

i guess for me it just comes down to jealousy i wish i could get free money every month, chug firewater, and hunt and fish anytime anywhere w/ no rules or repercussions

[bobcat]

I don't blame the Muckleshoots for closing their land to hunting by others. Why wouldn't they? My problem with it is that our government allowed the purchase to happen. As time goes on, and they continue to become wealthier, I can see the Muckleshoot tribe, as well as other Native American tribes, purchasing more and more land. Eventually who knows how much of the state will be owned by the Indians. I could see this becoming a much bigger problem in the future. Hopefully by that time I will live elsewhere.

[Jingles]

Looks like another example of when the US Didn't finish a war........

[Coastal_native]

The war ended in peace treaties.  Maybe you were hoping for genocide.

[pope]

Well, maybe the solution is to cut off the funding which facilitates these land purchases. The state is already involved with stealing money from the mathematically challenged public through operating Lotto. It doesn't seem to me that allowing casinos in this state would be some enormous immoral jump. Think of the taxes that could be generated wrecking families by taking advantage of gambling addicts. It's really no different than legalizing and taxing booze and marijuana.

[JimmyHoffa]

Well, maybe the solution is to cut off the funding which facilitates these land purchases. The state is already involved with stealing money from the mathematically challenged public through operating Lotto. It doesn't seem to me that allowing casinos in this state would be some enormous immoral jump. Think of the taxes that could be generated wrecking families by taking advantage of gambling addicts. It's really no different than legalizing and taxing booze and marijuana.

Been saying that for years--break the monopoly (or at least make a valid threat to) on the casinos.

[Coastal_native]

Well, maybe the solution is to cut off the funding which facilitates these land purchases. The state is already involved with stealing money from the mathematically challenged public through operating Lotto. It doesn't seem to me that allowing casinos in this state would be some enormous immoral jump. Think of the taxes that could be generated wrecking families by taking advantage of gambling addicts. It's really no different than legalizing and taxing booze and marijuana.

Been saying that for years--break the monopoly (or at least make a valid threat to) on the casinos.

That would make way too much sense. Can you imagine if this state did something new to try to generate revenue and then actually took that revenue and used it in a way that would create more hunting opportunity AND more revenue.  That would be amazing.  Maybe the tribal governments are doing something right.

[Whitpirate]

Certainly easier to operate a business without having to pay taxes, benefits etc... If it were level many tribal businesses would operate at a loss.   Interesting Delbert Wheeler owns the businesses but when ruled he owes taxes it is a tribal manner. 

[Coastal_native]

Certainly easier to operate a business without having to pay taxes, benefits etc... If it were level many tribal businesses would operate at a loss.   Interesting Delbert Wheeler owns the businesses but when ruled he owes taxes it is a tribal manner.

We're talking about governments.  They don't pay taxes, they collect them. Tribal casinos and enterprises are owned by tribal governments.  If the state wants to develop a business enterprise, who would it pay taxes to?  This is the biggest misconception out there.

[JimmyHoffa]

Well, maybe the solution is to cut off the funding which facilitates these land purchases. The state is already involved with stealing money from the mathematically challenged public through operating Lotto. It doesn't seem to me that allowing casinos in this state would be some enormous immoral jump. Think of the taxes that could be generated wrecking families by taking advantage of gambling addicts. It's really no different than legalizing and taxing booze and marijuana.

Been saying that for years--break the monopoly (or at least make a valid threat to) on the casinos.

That would make way too much sense. Can you imagine if this state did something new to try to generate revenue and then actually took that revenue and used it in a way that would create more hunting opportunity AND more revenue.  That would be amazing.  Maybe the tribal governments are doing something right.

I don't blame the tribes for jumping on that kind of opportunity.  The state is handing them a golden platter.  But when I hear about how the state is 'powerless' to get any kind of change when it comes to issues regarding the tribes, I think....well, the state could impact the largest revenue source for some of them, so not really 'powerless'.  I'm pretty sure that would definitely open up some ears if the state went down that road.

[pope]

Well, I think the tribes have found a way to generate revenue that is beneficial to the tribes. I would not go so far as to say they're doing something "right". Let's face it, the tribes and their casinos are providing entertainment for a number of people who lack the imagination to do anything on a Saturday night other than go to a casino and test their luck. For the responsible patrons, this is harmless. For those who become addicted, there is financial ruin waiting just around the corner.

I'm torn on this issue, actually, because I am pleased to see the tribes finding ways to battle generations of depression and chemical dependency, through generating revenue and promoting health and education. When I was growing up, my mother's best friend was a powerful woman in the Muckleshoot tribe. I later attended a class at U.W. taught by her son, who at that time was the Director of Native American Education in the State of Washington. As an educator, I have worked with countless Muckleshoot students and donated hundreds of hours of my time. Yet....I currently feel like I'm being evicted from my traditional hunting grounds, areas where I have spent years scouting and hunting, all accessed by climbing long hills on a mountain bike.

I agree with justyhunter, a close friend. Whoever owns the property makes the rules, yet at some place in the equation, I think traditions are also important, even my traditions. And ultimately, the health and abundance of animals is critical. I will find other areas to hunt, but I will always remember the adventures I had in the White River, and I hope the new property owners will learn to manage their harvest in a sustainable manner.

[Coastal_native]

So long as the state is happy with the tax compacts, I don't see anything changing.  The sad thing is hunters will be the biggest group impacted by purchases like this, but since the citizens of this state don't give a hoot about hunters, it'll be of little consequence to them.  I have mixed feelings about this really.  I think we should be able to find a way to share the resources while keeping with spirit of the treaties, but there's just too much friction.

[Whitpirate]

Certainly easier to operate a business without having to pay taxes, benefits etc... If it were level many tribal businesses would operate at a loss.   Interesting Delbert Wheeler owns the businesses but when ruled he owes taxes it is a tribal manner.

We're talking about governments.  They don't pay taxes, they collect them. Tribal casinos and enterprises are owned by tribal governments.  If the state wants to develop a business enterprise, who would it pay taxes to?  This is the biggest misconception out there.

Governments also form trade agreements and ratify rules governing trade.  Non-tax alcohol, tobacco and other various and sundry items to non-tribal individuals violate the free trade and commerce agreements that sovereign nations would hold.  For instance I got to BC and pay VAT and then can get that back.  The tribes want to play both sides of the coin and then scream sovereignty when it suits or will cost them.  Curious to know how much western tribes paid to support traffic improvements to the various tribal lands that generate revenue.