Dog, mistaken for wolf, shot and killed by teenager in North Idaho

[stevemiller]

Just for the record for the forum members that want to say private property and all that stuff,The closed season statement was in the article which would indicate to me that where and when this happened the season was indeed closed to the shooter,Making this an attempted poaching incident,Attempted only because the fact remains that it was a dog and not a wolf.Excluding it from the crime of poaching. 

[grundy53]

Just for the record for the forum members that want to say private property and all that stuff,The closed season statement was in the article which would indicate to me that where and when this happened the season was indeed closed to the shooter,Making this an attempted poaching incident,Attempted only because the fact remains that it was a dog and not a wolf.Excluding it from the crime of poaching. 

I agree. I want to make it clear I'm not trying to defend the actions of the shooter. Just trying to explain why MAYBE they didn't consider this attempted poaching.

[andrew_in_idaho]

What Idahohunter will never admit is the pro-wolf crowd won't change no matter what hunters do, good or bad spewing the same drivel over and over won't it changes anyone's minds

I can't speak for Idahohunter but it seems to me he and I kinda see eye to eye on this matter, so here is my opinion. You are correct we cannot change the opinion of the pro wolf crowd but this is not a black and white issue, there are a lot of people in the middle who don't have an opinion one way or the other about wolves and wolf hunting who may form an opinion upon reading an article about irresponsible and unethical acts committed by those who claim to be "hunters". This is why we need to tone it down with the kill em all, who cares about the law, SSS attitude or we will lose what ground we have and will gain in the future in efforts to restore some semblance of balance to our game populations.

[stevemiller]

Just for the record for the forum members that want to say private property and all that stuff,The closed season statement was in the article which would indicate to me that where and when this happened the season was indeed closed to the shooter,Making this an attempted poaching incident,Attempted only because the fact remains that it was a dog and not a wolf.Excluding it from the crime of poaching. 

I agree. I want to make it clear I'm not trying to defend the actions of the shooter. Just trying to explain why MAYBE they didn't consider this attempted poaching.

I would never think you would defend anything that is illegal  Took a couple post for me to realize this though.No game animal no property of the state ETC no poaching.In WA. State I think its a 1k fine for the killing or injury of someones pet.Not really sure how this one will play out since the shooter thought he was hunting (the wolf)and shot and killed what he thought was a wolf.The intention was there.Like fishing without a license,Your fishing whether you catch or not,keep or not. 

[idahohuntr]

What Idahohunter will never admit is the pro-wolf crowd won't change no matter what hunters do, good or bad spewing the same drivel over and over won't it changes anyone's minds

I can't speak for Idahohunter but it seems to me he and I kinda see eye to eye on this matter, so here is my opinion. You are correct we cannot change the opinion of the pro wolf crowd but this is not a black and white issue, there are a lot of people in the middle who don't have an opinion one way or the other about wolves and wolf hunting who may form an opinion upon reading an article about irresponsible and unethical acts committed by those who claim to be "hunters". This is why we need to tone it down with the kill em all, who cares about the law, SSS attitude or we will lose what ground we have and will gain in the future in efforts to restore some semblance of balance to our game populations.

Well said...and those points are exponentially more important in Washington where some of these greenie groups actually have pretty strong political clout as compared to an Idaho or Wyoming.

[AspenBud]

Not everyone in the woods is hunting, or for that matter training, with a turtle. A vest on a fast moving pointing dog busting through brush is something of a bad joke. Trying to stop it on command when it's 500-1000 yards in front of you is even more problematic. They don't run close, that's not how they are wired or work most effectively.

If a person can't tell the difference between a hunting dog and a wolf, let alone a malamute and a wolf, they have no business hunting.

Why exactly would they be running 500 to 1000 yards in front of you?In WA.?

I think this quote (regarding English Pointers) from another forum sums it up...

"Pointers, especially trial bred pointers, are EXPECTED to hunt independently, at distances exceeding gun range.  They can be cuddle bugs at home, but also can be somewhat aloof.  But in the field, they are hunting machines, first and last. It is what they do. It is what they are.

If that ain't what you want, don't get a Pointer.  It's just that simple."

I know of several people who hunt chukar that like dogs to run at that range and I know of many who are willing to let their dogs stretch the distance in the woods going after grouse as well.

[stevemiller]

Ok  What good does it do a hunter to be hunting birds if the dog is 500 to 1000 yards ahead?Is the bird goin to just hover until you get there?If your dog is out hunting itself and you are 500 to 1000 yards back and the dog is taking game on its own well then there are other legal issues at hand. In short your dog has no reason in WA. State to be 500 to 1000 yards away from its owner on public property. 

[AspenBud]

What good does it do a hunter to be hunting birds if the dog is 500 to 1000 yards ahead?

If you are hunting chukar in a canyon with a 2500 foot near vertical climb what's more efficient? Trying to walk every square inch of that to find birds or let the dog do it as quickly as possible, covering as much ground as possible, stopping only to stand on point when it find its quarry? 

A pointing dog seeking birds like a heat seeking missile can cut the time it takes to find birds dramatically.

Is the bird goin to just hover until you get there?

You might be surprised.

If your dog is out hunting itself and you are 500 to 1000 yards back and the dog is taking game on its own well then there are other legal issues at hand.

Which is why you steady your dog and don't let it extend the range until that is done. Extreme range does not equal self hunting or out of control if you have laid the training foundation properly.

In short your dog has no reason in WA. State to be 500 to 1000 yards away from its owner on public property. 

I suspect a lot of pointing dog people would disagree.

It's a matter of preference. I don't prefer those ranges and like a dog that sticks more within 200-300 yards max. But some guys do and in open country a dog that sets the landscape on fire is a real asset. A dog that can do that and be smart enough to tighten up the range when in dense cover is even better. We have lots of open spaces in Washington and lots of areas with tight cover conditions.

Once upon a time guys hunted bear and cougars with dogs that more than doubled the range I mentioned here, like we go from hundreds of yards away to potentially miles away there. Hunting with hounds is illegal except under special conditions now, hunting birds with pointing dogs is not, and if it ever does become illegal Washington and I are done.

[stevemiller]

Yes once upon a time there were reasons for your hunting dog to be 500 to 1000 yards away,but sadly not anymore.There is no good reason that you can come up with(you dont even like it yourself you posted)to be over 1/4 to over a 1/2 mile away from your hunting dog. 

[Jonathan_S]

1/2 mile is less than 1,000 yards

[stevemiller]

lets take a moment and see.!1 mile is 5280 feet. that is 1760 yards   / that by 2 gives you half a mile = 880 yards   yep your right it is.Didnt I say that?

[Jonathan_S]

Are you making fun of me or arguing with yourself?

[stevemiller]

not either are you cause thats what it seems since i said that very thing twice now.

[stevemiller]

Yes once upon a time there were reasons for your hunting dog to be 500 to 1000 yards away,but sadly not anymore.There is no good reason that you can come up with(you dont even like it yourself you posted)to be over 1/4 to over a 1/2 mile away from your hunting dog. 

            you see the OVER part?Why do people always jump into a discussion only reading part of it before posting,then start a problem?

[Jonathan_S]

    YES Isee the OVER part. 

I read the whole thing Steve.  Believe it or not your typing skills are not airtight and easily lead to confusion. 

Just because I don't type a bunch of gobbledygook throughout the thread doesn't mean I am not paying attention.