Couple questions before I start

[j_h_nimrod]

I am planning to purchase a ML in the next week or so and am pretty much down to final selection. I plan to spend a max of $400 but would like to keep it closer to $300. I have narrowed down my choices to CVA or Traditions.  Cabela's and Sportsman's have a couple good deals currently but the guns are not NW legal in their current configuration. 

A couple of questions that I have not satisfactorily answered are:

-breech plugs - can I get a replacement to convert a standard Vortek or Pursuit III to NW legal?
-bullets - I am planning on a .50 caliber shooting a bullet ~250-300 grains, do I really gain anything using a saboted .45 over a full bore diameter bullet of the same weight?  I have run the numbers through the ballistic calculator but in practice do I really gain anything with the higher BC .45 bullet inside 200 yards?
-powder - I know slight differences in powder weight or type can make a big difference in a cartridge rifle, are black powder rifles the same?  I have been leaning toward Pyrodex pellets to start and playing with different combos (30gr, 50gr, 60gr) to dial in a load but how sensitive are BP rifles to a change of 5gr or are 10gr steps fine?
-Weight vs volume - I know blackpowder and substitutes are typically measured by volume, but has anyone worked with weights successfully and is there any advantage?

Thanks for whatever help you can supply.

[bobcat]

Just get the CVA Optima Northwest from muzzle-loaders.com. It's only $300. I like loose powder myself. It's more reliable than the pellets. Pellets are really meant to be used with 209 primer ignition, which of course are not legal here.

As for bullets, the 45 caliber bullets in a sabot really only benefits you in decreased recoil, in my opinion. And that's actually a good reason to go with sabots, especially in a rifle that's very light such as the CVA Optima.

http://www.muzzle-loaders.com/rifles/cva/optima/pr2024s.php

[CAMPMEAT]

I bought what bobcat recommended. Very nice ML. Shots great too...

[jrebel]

Loose powder is the only way to go in my opinion.  I only measure mine by volume and it is very accurate. Try to find a Musket Cap nipple for whatever you buy.  If you can then visit hooked on toys and buy the Noble Dynamite German Musket caps.....best out there in my opinion.  I have never had a misfire!!  I like saboted bullets and have never shot anything else. 

Others will say you don't gain anything by going with musket caps......and maybe that is true, but ask them how many misfires they have had.  Literally hundreds of shots with not one misfire!!  

The best thing you can do to improve accuracy is buy a peep site. 

If you want to shoot when you get set up let me know.  I love shooting the front stuffers.   

[syoungs]

I went with a cva optima 2, added a rear peep, and couldn't be happier, keep in mind that after you purchase the gun, your going to spend another decent sum on bullets, powders, speed loaders, powder measuring equipment, etc.

I shot the pellets for a year, but had to many fail to fires and hangfires, I actually think the powder is just as easy, if not easier when your in the field, and im much much more confident in it. I use 3f powder @110g with a 250g hornady sst in a sabot. tried a few other combos, but this is what I settled on, again, because im super confident in it. I try to shoot german musket caps when I can find them, I dislike the cci musket caps, always foul my nipple.

don't forget a good palm saver and a range rod, makes life much easier when your shooting a lot, and saves wear and tear on the guns rod.

[Damnimissed]

Loose powder is the only way to go in my opinion.  I only measure mine by volume and it is very accurate. Try to find a Musket Cap nipple for whatever you buy.  If you can then visit hooked on toys and buy the Noble Dynamite German Musket caps.....best out there in my opinion.  I have never had a misfire!!  I like saboted bullets and have never shot anything else. 

Others will say you don't gain anything by going with musket caps......and maybe that is true, but ask them how many misfires they have had.  Literally hundreds of shots with not one misfire!!  

The best thing you can do to improve accuracy is buy a peep site. 

If you want to shoot when you get set up let me know.  I love shooting the front stuffers.   

Never had a misfire with RWS 1075's in either my Vortek or Knight Ultralite and I hunt on the westside fwiw

[HntnFsh]

I went with a cva optima 2, added a rear peep, and couldn't be happier, keep in mind that after you purchase the gun, your going to spend another decent sum on bullets, powders, speed loaders, powder measuring equipment, etc.

I shot the pellets for a year, but had to many fail to fires and hangfires, I actually think the powder is just as easy, if not easier when your in the field, and im much much more confident in it. I use 3f powder @110g with a 250g hornady sst in a sabot. tried a few other combos, but this is what I settled on, again, because im super confident in it. I try to shoot german musket caps when I can find them, I dislike the cci musket caps, always foul my nipple.

don't forget a good palm saver and a range rod, makes life much easier when your shooting a lot, and saves wear and tear on the guns rod.

I can answer that. RWS #11 caps. Literally hundreds of rounds fired. Hunted here on the west side in some miserably wet weather. Not a single misfire!

[Sabotloader]

I went with a cva optima 2, added a rear peep, and couldn't be happier, keep in mind that after you purchase the gun, your going to spend another decent sum on bullets, powders, speed loaders, powder measuring equipment, etc.

I shot the pellets for a year, but had to many fail to fires and hangfires, I actually think the powder is just as easy, if not easier when your in the field, and im much much more confident in it. I use 3f powder @110g with a 250g hornady sst in a sabot. tried a few other combos, but this is what I settled on, again, because im super confident in it. I try to shoot german musket caps when I can find them, I dislike the cci musket caps, always foul my nipple.

don't forget a good palm saver and a range rod, makes life much easier when your shooting a lot, and saves wear and tear on the guns rod.

I can answer that. RWS #11 caps. Literally hundreds of rounds fired. Hunted here on the west side in some miserably wet weather. Not a single misfire!

I also use the #11 caps without any problems + I believe they provide me some added benefits.  Both caps create the same heat and pressure, the Musket Cap does have the ability to burn a very short longer time because it contains more material to burn.  But if your powder is not compromised that should never be a problem.

One of the benefits of the Nobel 1075+ is that it fits the nipple tighter or even tight with the correct nipple. No slits in the sides of the cap for moisture to contaminate the cap.  The convolutions on the side of the cap can be stretched when applying to the nipple creating a nearly water proof seal on the nipple.

Really think it is just a Ford/Chevy thing.  You need to use what you have confidence in.

 

[j_h_nimrod]

Thanks for all the good information.  There are a couple topics you guys addressed that I hadn't fully considered. I love shooting modern and do a lot of it but am excited about having something new to learn. The information on the priming and powders was most helpful.

One area of the regs that seem a bit gray to me and am curious of your interpretations.

Excerpt from WAC 232-12-0051 - "Exposed to the weather" means the percussion cap or the frizzen must be visible and not capable of being enclosed by an integral part of the weapon proper. 

Obviously you can't have full enclosure like many in-lines, but I take it to mean that as long as the covering is not part of the weapon I can protect the action with an oiled rag, leather wrap, or something similar.

[Sabotloader]

yep! on the older plunger guns and even the more modern ones is the weather is severe enough I just wrap the area with a plastic package wrap like a Saran wrap.

 

[Bob33]

Thanks for all the good information.  There are a couple topics you guys addressed that I hadn't fully considered. I love shooting modern and do a lot of it but am excited about having something new to learn. The information on the priming and powders was most helpful.

One area of the regs that seem a bit gray to me and am curious of your interpretations.

Excerpt from WAC 232-12-0051 - "Exposed to the weather" means the percussion cap or the frizzen must be visible and not capable of being enclosed by an integral part of the weapon proper. 

Obviously you can't have full enclosure like many in-lines, but I take it to mean that as long as the covering is not part of the weapon I can protect the action with an oiled rag, leather wrap, or something similar.

not capable of being enclosed by an integral part of the weapon proper. 

[fishinnut30]

Fishermens marine in Portland has the Knight bighorn on sale for $309. I am buying my first ML and I think I have decided on the Bighorn western.

[Myrtle Creek Inc.]

I am planning to purchase a ML in the next week or so and am pretty much down to final selection. I plan to spend a max of $400 but would like to keep it closer to $300. I have narrowed down my choices to CVA or Traditions.  Cabela's and Sportsman's have a couple good deals currently but the guns are not NW legal in their current configuration. 

A couple of questions that I have not satisfactorily answered are:

-breech plugs - can I get a replacement to convert a standard Vortek or Pursuit III to NW legal?
-bullets - I am planning on a .50 caliber shooting a bullet ~250-300 grains, do I really gain anything using a saboted .45 over a full bore diameter bullet of the same weight?  I have run the numbers through the ballistic calculator but in practice do I really gain anything with the higher BC .45 bullet inside 200 yards?
-powder - I know slight differences in powder weight or type can make a big difference in a cartridge rifle, are black powder rifles the same?  I have been leaning toward Pyrodex pellets to start and playing with different combos (30gr, 50gr, 60gr) to dial in a load but how sensitive are BP rifles to a change of 5gr or are 10gr steps fine?
-Weight vs volume - I know blackpowder and substitutes are typically measured by volume, but has anyone worked with weights successfully and is there any advantage?

Thanks for whatever help you can supply.

Hey J_h,

If you plan on going with a CVA, which I would recommend between your two manufacturers, you will need to use loose powder with their northwest breech plug. There are a few cases of guys using pellets, however the breech plug is designed for loose powder and performs much better with it. If you're set on pellets, I would go with the Traditions instead. If you're debating between sabots and full-bore bullets, you'll find that there are a lot of opinions either way. If you've used one or the other in the past and have had success, just use what works for you. Good luck with the new muzzleloader!

[j_h_nimrod]

Thanks for all the input. Ended up finding a used Knight Disc Extreme that I am converting to make it NW Legal and decided to start with #11 caps, loose powder (Triple Seven), and saboted loads. Waiting on the conversion parts so we will see how it performs once I get it ready. Eagerly waiting for the parts now.

[Damnimissed]

Thanks for all the input. Ended up finding a used Knight Disc Extreme that I am converting to make it NW Legal and decided to start with #11 caps, loose powder (Triple Seven), and saboted loads. Waiting on the conversion parts so we will see how it performs once I get it ready. Eagerly waiting for the parts now.

Perfect! Now just figure out what bullets it likes. I'm running 290gr Barnes TMZ's in my Knight. They shoot awesome.

[olehunter]

I haven't found a bullet my Knight Ultra Lite don't shoot well ,,Just had to say that ,,,Was out the other day and mixed them up ,,sabots then Thro both shot great ,,, Winch Man been called worse ,,,,

[blackpowderhunter]

i shoot harvester muzzleloader hard cast 45 cal (.451) bullets with the black crush rib sabot out of my knight disc extreme nw 50 cal.
they seem to shoot quite well for myself and my hunting buddies with the same gun.