Sidearm for Black Bear.

[Firedogg]

 I'm reaching the other direction for the .45-70 kept behind the door. 


Here's an interesting read on defensive bear shooting....

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/defensive.html

[magnumb]

I am very happy to agree with you...... .

In truth, my last post was not directed at you.  You have made your point about any firearm being better than none at all, which is in most cases is true, but certainly not always and not under all conditions. 

What is disconcerting in this thread are posts which state that they have heard or seen this caliber do this or that, when logic says that yes, all things are possible, but not neccessarily prudent, intelligent nor safe.

For example.....Bofire offers some interesting experiences and examples of bear killings that make little logical sense and I have no reason nor want whatsoever to question those examples.  But if I were asked what I thought Bofire's intent was in sharing those examples, from his own words and then trying to decipher what he was attempting to say which is there for all to take their own stab at, I would say that he would grab either firearm off that kitchen table, given his carefully chosen examples.  Whether true or imagined, it is just hard to believe that he would not intentionally grab the .44, as you and I would.  It just doesn't make any sense given their vast terminal effectiveness differences.

If a less experienced member were to read only Bofire's examples in this entire thread, he or she would have to believe that of the 4 calibers he mentions, only the .357 is always totally effective on bear, the .9mm can nearly do as good a job as the .357, the .44mag fails miserably on bear and the 30-06 is a great 'put away' caliber/cartridge.  Remember, there are members here that are not only new here, but are new to hunting/shooting and totally ignorant as to why and how ballistics play such a major role in terminal effectiveness.

This new members 'take away' then is, in his mind, information that will likely guide him in his very next (very first, perhaps), firearms purchase., even though Bofire failed to share his thoughts on what he thought might be the most prudent, minimal choice for woods carry.  Examples were given that would leave a new or experienced member thoroughly confused as to what caliber/cartridge (minimal on up) he feels has the most potential to effectively and quickly end a bear attack.

Most here are interested in others opinions, especially from those members whom we are astute enough to know, in fact, are experienced.  I'd suggest that offering examples of incidents and situations and their results that are considered somewhat contrary to what most would consider more logical outcomes, is a distraction, at best.  If I want someone's opinion on something, especially when it involves the safety of me or mine, give me all of the examples you'd like, but rather than muddy the waters and then leave, offer some informed suggestions based on your knowledge of said animal, calibers and/or cartridges.

Newbies are exactly that....new to whatever.  Many experienced hunters/shooters are still less experienced than others.  If one has no opinion.....great.  But rather than, again, muddy the waters for whatever reason, think of the impact on those that are truly looking for answers to their quest to become 'more experienced'.

In truth, that particular post left me with exactly nothing, except, anythings possible.  There are likely as many, if not more, examples that members here can offer in subsequent posts detailing the failures and successes of those examples, but reversing each outcome.  But where would that leave us and what can we learn from such posts.  That anythings possible........?  We know that already.

Let's hear your experiences, no matter how logical or illogical, but more importantly, give us your personal thoughts, suggestions, preferences, choices and/or feelings on the subject and let us sort it out.       

[magnumb]

I'm reaching the other direction for the .45-70 kept behind the door. 


Here's an interesting read on defensive bear shooting....

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/defensive.html

That's cheating........ . 

That was an interesting read...........thanks!

I have watched numerous videos where idiots jump into bear enclosures in zoo's and those who by some stupid move, allow themselves to be grabbed by a bear.  These bears range from blackies to grizzlies and polar bears.  SOB!!  I want none of that......... .

The strength, fury, focus and agility these bears show when they've 'captured' a human is absolutely horrifying and amazing.  When they say, "save a bullet for yourself", that's not far from the truth.  They can be so relentless in certain situations.

If you don't break them down immediately, your last, best chance is truly gone......unless that bear allows you to live.

Again, good read.......thanks for sharin' that article..... .

[Firedogg]

  In a fight with a bear there are no rules, so it wasn't cheating.   

[tgomez]

Im a just bring my wife with me! The bear will want no piece of her! Run bear runnnnnnnnnnnn

[Okanagan]

If this topic has calmed a bit, a wider view brings in factors in whether to carry a sidearm for bear.  The original question is which sidearm to carry for bear, so the decision has been made to carry, merely deciding the specific.  I have lived half of my life on the Canadian side, so sidearms are not a legal practicality while hunting in bear country.  During big game season I have a rifle in hand, but not the rest of the year nor usually while picking berries, fishing etc. 

When I was a teen hunting in WA State I carried a .22 pistol for grouse sometimes, and for awhile in Canada carried a legal air pistol for the same reasons.  I quit carrying both because the bulk and weight were not worth the few extra grouse I killed.  Likewise, for me, the danger from a bear or cougar is not enough to induce me to carry the extra cumber.    I well recognize the danger and it is a personal choice for me alone and not something recommended to anyone else.  Make your own call. 

Human predators are a much more serious danger, a different topic, and worth the inconvenience of carrying for many of us.

Re killing power, black bears are relatively easy to kill on my tenacity-of-life scale, except for the exceptions which can take a phenomenal amount of killing.  Their skull is strong enough to deflect a 30-30 bullet if hit at an oblique angle.  I have seen the kill or handled black bears killed with the following:  tire iron, recurve bow, compound bow, .22 long rifle, 22-250, 6mm & .243, 270, 7mm mag., 30-06, 300 Win. Mag., .338 Win., and a .375 H&H.  The tire iron was some cowboy friends who roped and tied a black bear, loaded it in a pick-up and one tapped it to settle it down when it got rambunctious.  He tapped it too hard.  The .375 was used by a nervous new hunter who shot the bear in the rump as it ran away at 40 yards and the (270 or 300 grain?) Nosler Partition was lodged under a bulge in the hide on the bear's forehead, shot between the eyes-- from the opposite end.   The .22 was a teenager friend hunting grouse who killed a large black bear from a rest with a shot in the ear at 40 feet. 

I've been threatened by several grizzlies and several black bears but never yet touched by one, though I swatted a black bear with a sack of garbage once.   I'm going berry picking this afternoon, where I ran into a bear while picking last week.  If I survive till this evening, maybe I should post to let folks know I'm OK!     

[jkthomps]

Omfg how much banter can one thread have lol! Nice job firedogg, look at all this BS storytelling banter can of worms you opened hahaha. To answer the original question, I carry an XD45. Like many, I use it more or less for 2 legged animals. .45 is plenty for a black bear, I won't give a story or my "opinion" since the original question/post did not inquire, I know from 1st hand experience... 230 grain fmc does the trick just fine.

I can't stop laughing at all the BS in this thread hahahaha

Cheers!

[police women of America]

I'll be getting a .50 raging bull revolver for Alaska/washington side arm.

[police women of America]

Im a just bring my wife with me! The bear will want no piece of her! Run bear runnnnnnnnnnnn

[mountainman]

Omfg how much banter can one thread have lol! Nice job firedogg, look at all this BS storytelling banter can of worms you opened hahaha. To answer the original question, I carry an XD45. Like many, I use it more or less for 2 legged animals. .45 is plenty for a black bear, I won't give a story or my "opinion" since the original question/post did not inquire, I know from 1st hand experience... 230 grain fmc does the trick just fine.

I can't stop laughing at all the BS in this thread hahahaha

Cheers!

but it is good for the amusement tho! Lots of experts here with oh so much advise luv it!

[jkthomps]

Omfg how much banter can one thread have lol! Nice job firedogg, look at all this BS storytelling banter can of worms you opened hahaha. To answer the original question, I carry an XD45. Like many, I use it more or less for 2 legged animals. .45 is plenty for a black bear, I won't give a story or my "opinion" since the original question/post did not inquire, I know from 1st hand experience... 230 grain fmc does the trick just fine.

I can't stop laughing at all the BS in this thread hahahaha

Cheers!

but it is good for the amusement tho! Lots of experts here with oh so much advise luv it!

Exactly! Surprisingly there is some good info and amusement 

[magnumb]

Omfg how much banter can one thread have lol! Nice job firedogg, look at all this BS storytelling banter can of worms you opened hahaha. To answer the original question, I carry an XD45. Like many, I use it more or less for 2 legged animals. .45 is plenty for a black bear, I won't give a story or my "opinion" since the original question/post did not inquire, I know from 1st hand experience... 230 grain fmc does the trick just fine.

I can't stop laughing at all the BS in this thread hahahaha

Cheers!

.....but in a self serving attempt to disparage all others that you feel obviously less experienced, not worthy of contributing their thoughts and knowledgable than yourself, you just happen to offer up the very clear inference that you have come face to face with a bear, survived and handily dispatched it with your XDS45, ala, your "I know from 1st hand experience.....".  And this, your unsolicited 'Field and Stream' moment, just happens to be contained within the same exact sentence where you state, "I won't give my a story or my 'opinion' since the original question/post did not inquire....".

The "original question/post did not inquire" anything but "what's ur poison"....did it..?  So why add the self serving and disparaging banter about others posts, especially when the OP's original question/post clearly did not ask for your opinion on the content of others posts...... .  It is more than evident that you feel others posts in this thread are totally useless and that you truly consider yourself the only qualified and worthy member/hunter that should be able to both determine and pass judgement on any and all others and their opinions.  If this isn't an exact depiction of you and your attitude, where, in your post, is this not exactly what you did or reflect how you feel and view yourself....?  You certainly think alot of yourself.

Being that you obviously very much coveted/embraced and now yearn to return to the 'hall monitor' status of your childhood, complaining about others having done exactly what you then quite intentionally and willingly did yourself, is quite understandable....unfortunately.  Old habits die hard, especially when one feels somehow superior to all others.  Why else would you feel it your right to be so disparaging of others?  More importantly, why else would you then immediately do exactly the same thing that you just complained about in your banter filled post.......... .

All your "hahahaha's...." and demeaning comments in your one post sold me on the determination of your 'hall monitor' personality as you seem to think that this is just a competition of some sort, just like we approached most things when we were just little, impulsive, smart ass'd  kids.

Some grow up, others...............not so much.         

[magnumb]

but it is good for the amusement tho! Lots of experts here with oh so much advise luv it!
[/quote]


Ahhh...........the 'hall monitor' understudy/'wanna-be'........such a commendable and admirable aspiration..... .

Nothing to offer to the OP's inquiry or to the common good of the forum as a whole, so let's piggyback on that other guys post and try to replenish and boost your confidence level and/or image that you, alone, have of yourself.

That's useful and productive to all other's trying to gain information so that they might make more informed decisions going forward .........

Cheers!

[Jonathan_S]

but it is good for the amusement tho! Lots of experts here with oh so much advise luv it!

Ahhh...........the 'hall monitor' understudy.

Nothing to offer to the OP's inquiry or to the common good of the forum as a whole, so let's piggyback on that other guys post and try to replenish and boost your confidence level and/or image that you have of yourself.

That's useful and productive to all other's trying to gain information so that they might make more informed decisions going forward .........
[/quote]

You forgot, "Cheers"

[Knocker of rocks]

  In a fight with a bear there are no rules, so it wasn't cheating.   

Canada has rules

Grizzly Bear Encounter: Rogers Pass, British Columbia (July 9th, 2015)
Having just climbed the Southeast Ridge of Mt Uto, my partner and I were descending lazily in the extreme heat of the afternoon when an off-duty ‘visitor safety’ specialist named Lydia blew past us. Despite a grizzly bear advisory on the trail, she left her climbing partners in the dust (maybe they were slowpokes?) and scampered down the trail solo, sans bear spray, until she surprised a large female grizzly feeding on roots slapdab in the middle of the path. Understandably not wanting to get into a ‘right-of-way’ dispute with the large bruin, she backtracked up the talus slope, and waited for us.
Arriving on the scene, I promptly whipped out my pepper spray and a large machete, ready for battle should the bear decide we looked like fish n’chips. But alas! The ranger informed me that I could ‘go to prison’ for defending myself against a bear attack with any kind of sharp object. Apparently in Glacier National Park self-defense is illegal; just let the animals eat you. What about rocks? Could I bash the bruin on the head with a pointy rock if it got the better of me? She didn’t know. Then I reached for my GoPro as she recoiled in horror; ‘no knives or GoPros!’ I guess cameras are illegal too.
With the bear refusing to budge, she radioed for help at the ranger station, and they told us to wait until we formed a group of five or more, and then descend, but only if the grizz graciously ceded us the right-of-way. Otherwise, get comfortable. After some consideration, I was OK with waiting – you pick the devil you dance with, and I had no burning desire to tango with this monstrous bruin. As we waited for another party to catch up, the ranger drolled on about how useless my knives would be in a rumble with a bear. ‘They don’t even pierce the hide,’ she chided. Uh huh. Having spent twenty years exploring the backcountry, I’ve been charged twice by grizzly and encountered countless bears. Lydia had worked in Rogers Pass for a year and never laid eyes on a brown bear before; she talked about this stuff like she read it in a pamphlet. Pissed off, I told the ranger that if the grizz got feisty with her, I’d make sure to keep the knife in its sheath; she was on her own. Sorry Lydia, but prison sucks.
The ban on filming brown bear with GoPros confuses me, but not as much as the law against defending onself with all means available in the event of a predatory animal attack. Her argument was that a knife would be useless against a bear. Maybe, maybe not. Wild Bill Hickok reportedly killed a grizzly with a hunting knife. In more recent times, during the summer of 2014 a Minnesota man killed a 525lb black bear armed only with a small knife, stabbing the attacking bruin more than twenty times. The bear was so huge it took ten men to drag its carcass back to camp. A year before that, in 2013, Fraser Graham killed angry grizzly with a hunting knife as it severely mauled him. Back in 1999, Alaska hunter Gene Moe was charged and knocked down by a grizzly while he skinned a deer. Having left his rifle a hundred meters away, he had only a small blade to fend off the savage attack. He cut its throat and survived – the bear was not so lucky. In all three cases, carrying a knife saved the lives of these men. In none of the cases, did the knife fail to pierce the hide, as Lydia Marmont would have us believe.
Is a bear gonna *censored* you up if it’s in a hurtin’ kind of mood? Hell yes. But would you rather fight a grizzly with bare knuckles or with an 24 inch razor-sharp Cold Steel machete called ‘CHAOS’?

http://whippersandtears.com/man-vs-grizzly-bear-and-lydia-marmont/