Free: Contests & Raffles.
Chooses to adapt with Wolves, despite losing one calf. Free ranging cattle. Range riders to have a presence afield, to distract the wolvesSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Won't let me down load, but yes hard facts. The CNW and WDFW are paying range riders Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: full strutting on August 06, 2015, 09:33:00 AMWon't let me down load, but yes hard facts. The CNW and WDFW are paying range riders Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkRange riders with .22-250s and handloads
WHAT? The range riders presents isn't enough!!! How many is he willing to lose before he's had enough? How much weight loss is this rancher losing every time the cattle are bothered?
One rancher enjoying some success with a range rider does not make a successful program. Each rancher has different conditions, each range rider has differing experience levels and commitment. The range rider program also comes with strings attached. I know a range rider who does do a good job and that ranch has some success because of it. I've looked into this quite a bit, I've talked to numerous ranchers some of whom lose dozen of cattle to wolves about the range rider program. One rancher I talked to did sign up and commitment himself to all the bureaucracy to get a range rider...a hippy type dude showed up and rode a horse a couple miles then left, came back next week and drove a pickup a few miles and left, this is zero net benefit to the cattle or wolves for that matter. I think it can be successful in certain conditions for certain ranchers, but to say it can be successful everywhere just isn't true. It's a big commitment, gotta be out there almost every day (and night). Log on to the computer see what the wolf GPS says and try to cut them off.
The big question is. Once the wolves are completely delisted, who pays for all this wolf protection in the form of range rider, flaggers and such?
Quote from: villageidiot on September 14, 2015, 05:40:24 AMThe big question is. Once the wolves are completely delisted, who pays for all this wolf protection in the form of range rider, flaggers and such? The rancher who is profiting needs to pay for any personal property protection he deems necessary. The government handouts will have to stop at some point.Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Can anyone control a bunch of lawless dogs, who run in packs, without deadly means, not in my mind...
Quote from: idahohuntr on September 14, 2015, 07:10:12 AMQuote from: villageidiot on September 14, 2015, 05:40:24 AMThe big question is. Once the wolves are completely delisted, who pays for all this wolf protection in the form of range rider, flaggers and such? The rancher who is profiting needs to pay for any personal property protection he deems necessary. The government handouts will have to stop at some point.Sent from my SM-G900V using TapatalkThe "compensation" isn't a hand out, it's a slap in the face. It's a pittance of the real losses suffered. You know this, we've talked in detail about this. A lot of ranchers would LOVE the ability to protect their own but WDFW won't let them. They withhold the wolves' location (Dashiell sheep depredation is a good example) even when the rancher or sheep grower is doing everything asked of them to prevent wolf conflict. Dashiell was lauded and praised by wolf advocates for wolf conflict prevention and working with WDFW/CNW.....until the wolves gorged themselves on mutton...then he was an evil sheep herder running sheep too close to a denning site and should have known better...WDFW withheld that information though...Dashiell didn't know, couldn't know, he would have moved the sheep had he known...now he's a welfare sheep herder accepting government handouts according to you.
Quote from: KFhunter on September 14, 2015, 11:39:14 AMQuote from: idahohuntr on September 14, 2015, 07:10:12 AMQuote from: villageidiot on September 14, 2015, 05:40:24 AMThe big question is. Once the wolves are completely delisted, who pays for all this wolf protection in the form of range rider, flaggers and such? The rancher who is profiting needs to pay for any personal property protection he deems necessary. The government handouts will have to stop at some point.Sent from my SM-G900V using TapatalkThe "compensation" isn't a hand out, it's a slap in the face. It's a pittance of the real losses suffered. You know this, we've talked in detail about this. A lot of ranchers would LOVE the ability to protect their own but WDFW won't let them. They withhold the wolves' location (Dashiell sheep depredation is a good example) even when the rancher or sheep grower is doing everything asked of them to prevent wolf conflict. Dashiell was lauded and praised by wolf advocates for wolf conflict prevention and working with WDFW/CNW.....until the wolves gorged themselves on mutton...then he was an evil sheep herder running sheep too close to a denning site and should have known better...WDFW withheld that information though...Dashiell didn't know, couldn't know, he would have moved the sheep had he known...now he's a welfare sheep herder accepting government handouts according to you.The question posed which I responded presumed a "complete de-listing". Certainly at that point all prevention/protection actions are on the rancher - not the taxpayer. Lethal measures would ideally be much more common and available under such a scenario.Your rhetoric on the term "welfare rancher" is old and tired...read what I actually wrote.
1. 8-12 fewer calves come off of grazing due to wolf predation... $13,0002. Calves average 30-50 lbs. less at weaning due to harassment by wolves... $7,0003. All cows come off of the range thinner... $5,000It takes 5-10 lbs. of extra energy and protein per cow per day to restore her to adequate shape to calf properly, provide sufficient milk for the baby calf for the winter and breed back.4. Fewer cows breed back while under harassment on the range... $5,600These un-bred cows must be sold in the fall and replaced with either young heifers from the herd, which reduces calves available to sell, or replacement cows purchased to maintain an effective herd size.5. Management costs increase due to supervision and preventative measures while cattle are on large, forested range plot and in winter calving areas. (Range riders, vet treatment of injured calves, various preventative measures, etc.)... $9,000
Similar numbers with Montana studies. Actual paid predation compensation represents less than 10% of the loss. As stated, individual producers 'living' with wolves can not economically tolerate sustained wolf activity. If the wolf supporters and governments want them, pay the bill.