Properly locating blacktail deer

[JeffRaines]

Alright so, this is my first year hunting blacktail. From everything I've read, the consensus seems to be to still hunt the timber/fringes of clearcuts. Seems simple enough, right? Well, the past couple of mornings I've been out, the deer are actually busting out of the clearcuts as I'm driving up. Queue me hopping out of the truck and sneaking over to where they went into the woods to either find nothing, or them right there but with a bunch of brush between us... and don't forget the walking the fringes part turning up nothing - even when deer don't bust out of the cut. This area I'm hunting doesn't really have any behind closed gates unfortunately, or I'd be all over that.

Anyway, you can see my dilemma. I've gotta be doing something wrong while I'm still hunting the fringes, or either I'm looking in all the wrong places. I do stop to check the wind every so often, so I don't think scent is an issue.

Any idea of what I may be overlooking?

If its any help, the unit I'm hunting is any deer. While I'd love a buck I'm mainly out for meat, so I'm 99% sure if I get anything this year it will be a doe.

Thanks!

[DoubleJ]

So, when you drive up, deer run?  Seems like you've found them, you just need to adjust your timing or approach.  Either get there much earlier or park further away where you won't spook them with the truck and walk a ways.  don't over think it

[DoubleJ]

The other thing is, where they run to when you spook them is probably where they are going to walk to anyway at the end of feeding time.  If you can, circle around and flank them.  Be at those "run to" spots and set up before they walk out of the cut at the end of the morning

[fishnfur]

If it's your first year, I'd attempt to try to find the trails they are exiting the cut on, get there well before first light, sit tight and let them come to you.  Make sure you're pretty well hidden and sitting still.  Those buggers are hard to find once they bed so your best chance to get a shot at one should be to catch them moving from feeding to bedding or vice versa in the evening.  If the wind isn't favorable to get in there, wait until it is or come in from a better direction, rather than educate them that you're out near them all the time. 

[fishngamereaper]

They generally will re appear pretty close to where they ran in later in the evening as well. The weather has them moving the last few days, colder than normal nights. Find a back way into the timber and hunker down, let them come to you.

[JeffRaines]

I guess I should've been a little more specific. The lack of sleep is getting to me 

If I understand correctly, as the season wears on they're going to get more and more spooky to the point of not showing themselves too much during the day at all.
For example, I went out this morning and seen nothing at all.

I would really like to be able to find them on foot vs. in my truck. The other day I actually hiked down into this pretty deep hole next to a clearcut and found a lot of sign, but nothing that looked like it had happened within the past day.

[Natas5150]

Are you driving and then jumping out as you see them? That's a tough way to hunt especially if your bow hunting. Not saying there is anything wrong with road hunting. Try getting into the area you want to hunt before dark. Someone else said look for game trails to and from a clear cut. Hunt near the game trail but far enough that it don't make the deer skittish. Everything I have read about BT's is when they do get scared they will not go far from where they were scared from. They will hide but not leave the area especially if there is good food source and water source nearby. So if you do jump them stay put, eventually they will come back. They are very curious animals. BT's are tough to hunt but if your patient your hunt will pay off. Good luck !

Also as side note a good book to read about these ghosts of the woods is Blacktail Trophy Tactics. Lots of good information about hunting BT's. Its a available on amazon. The book will help you look for things while your out hunting that you would never in a million years would think make that much of difference.

[JeffRaines]

Are you driving and then jumping out as you see them? That's a tough way to hunt especially if your bow hunting. Not saying there is anything wrong with road hunting. Try getting into the area you want to hunt before dark. Someone else said look for game trails to and from a clear cut. Hunt near the game trail but far enough that it don't make the deer skittish. Everything I have read about BT's is when they do get scared they will not go far from where they were scared from. They will hide but not leave the area especially if there is good food source and water source nearby. So if you do jump them stay put, eventually they will come back. They are very curious animals. BT's are tough to hunt but if your patient your hunt will pay off. Good luck !

Thank you! And as for road hunting, that is not what I'm trying to do at all. Basically, I'm finding these deer when I'm not really expecting to find them(in the truck driving around is one good example). Then, when I actually go looking for them(on foot in the timber, etc) I'm coming up empty handed. I guess my next time out I'm gonna try just sitting around some of the cuts/game trails and watching.

[Natas5150]

As the season wears on the deer should start coming out more for the rut. Like last year we had a stormy weekend in late October and the days proceeding and after the storm bucks were going crazy. Weather like that drives them nuts and it really gets the rut going. The author of the book I told you about says he has killed monster BT bucks in complete down pours.  The time of year right now is still a little early. That's not to say that a buck is not interested in a doe but as the season wears on the better your chances should be. Pressure from others hunters can also come into play where you are currently hunting. If you see people in the area you are hunting chances are so have the deer and well they may move away from that area. So keep that in mind. I highly recommend the book.

[HankC]

Jeff - I seem to be having the same issue. I can find lots of sign, but once I do, there are no deer in sight. The other day I found WARM beds, but since it was my first time there, I was not quiet at all. Been out 3 times this season and have not seen a deer yet. It's my first year living in WA and bowhunting, so double whammy...

[bobcat]

Does stormy weather really "drive them nuts?" Or is it the does that do that to the bucks?

[Natas5150]

Does stormy weather really "drive them nuts?" Or is it the does that do that to the bucks?

Yes it was probably the does that were driving them nuts. I never claimed to be an expert. I just remember last year it seemed as though everyone I talked to in and around the area I hunt that the weather just seemed to spark the bucks up. Just keep at Jeff and Hank. When you least expect it here comes a deer. I again recommend reading the book. It has helped me a lot in what to look for. The last two years I have seen deer while hunting however they were out of my range with a muzzle loader and last year it was a doe and I was hunting modern. The book is by no means a magical answer but It will help, the author talks about scent, wind, early morning hunts, weather, rattling and calling in deer, looking for rubs, sign, etc. Check it out!

[HankC]

Thanks Natas! Is that book by Boyd Iverson?

[Natas5150]

Yes sir! Boyd Iverson is the author. 

[fishnfur]

Still hunting is an art that is hard to master.  It is even more difficult with a bow because of your limitations on shooting range.  Sitting still and mostly hidden in an area where deer are using a trail regularly probably gives you a much better chance at a shot on a deer, especially if you can find a spot where two major trails cross.  A moderate amount of brush in the area will make the deer feel safer to move about freely when they decide to get up and move while still allowing you a visual part of the time.  Too much brush, and they may walk right by you without you ever knowing they came and went.  Make sure above all else, that you've got the wind correct for your position.

Finding does should be relatively easy if you're in those areas you've seen them before.  A change in wind direction or a change in the weather may cause them to change the time and direction they enter and leave their feeding area.  That may be why you're no longer seeing them, or just as likely, they are tired of you keeping them scared all day as you hunt around their home and have moved to a safer area.  If there is more than one feeding area close by, which is very likely, they may switch to an entirely different area.

 If you can find an area that is getting browsed repeatedly and the browsed stems appear freshly cut rather than black with age, just back out to 30 - 40 yards or so, or just inside the timber if you're on a cut, and wait it out while moving as little as possible.  Chances are pretty good the deer will be back again that day sometime.  Don't forget, you must enter and stay downwind of the trail you're hunting.

Bigger bucks will be more sensitive to hunting pressure as the season progresses and will likely tighten up their core zones and become (or are already) entirely nocturnal at least until late October and possibly early November.  This warm weather makes the deer just lazy, they don't need to burn calories to stay warm.  They may stay bedded most of the day (and very hard to find), getting up just once to pee and grab a quick bite to eat.  All the does on my cams lately have been out at 0900 or so and then absent the rest of the day - I'm not quite sure where they are feeding at night, but it's not near my cams.  They may be doing the same where you hunt.

 Later in the season, cold weather will get all the deer feeding more often in order to raise their caloric intake, which means more time on their feet and a better opportunity to be seen.  This makes life a lot easier on you in finding and hopefully killing a deer. 

Go have fun!

[JeffRaines]

Still hunting is an art that is hard to master.  It is even more difficult with a bow because of your limitations on shooting range.  Sitting still and mostly hidden in an area where deer are using a trail regularly probably gives you a much better chance at a shot on a deer, especially if you can find a spot where two major trails cross.  A moderate amount of brush in the area will make the deer feel safer to move about freely when they decide to get up and move while still allowing you a visual part of the time.  Too much brush, and they may walk right by you without you ever knowing they came and went.  Make sure above all else, that you've got the wind correct for your position.

Finding does should be relatively easy if you're in those areas you've seen them before.  A change in wind direction or a change in the weather may cause them to change the time and direction they enter and leave their feeding area.  That may be why you're no longer seeing them, or just as likely, they are tired of you keeping them scared all day as you hunt around their home and have moved to a safer area.  If there is more than one feeding area close by, which is very likely, they may switch to an entirely different area.

 If you can find an area that is getting browsed repeatedly and the browsed stems appear freshly cut rather than black with age, just back out to 30 - 40 yards or so, or just inside the timber if you're on a cut, and wait it out while moving as little as possible.  Chances are pretty good the deer will be back again that day sometime.  Don't forget, you must enter and stay downwind of the trail you're hunting.

Bigger bucks will be more sensitive to hunting pressure as the season progresses and will likely tighten up their core zones and become (or are already) entirely nocturnal at least until late October and possibly early November.  This warm weather makes the deer just lazy, they don't need to burn calories to stay warm.  They may stay bedded most of the day (and very hard to find), getting up just once to pee and grab a quick bite to eat.  All the does on my cams lately have been out at 0900 or so and then absent the rest of the day - I'm not quite sure where they are feeding at night, but it's not near my cams.  They may be doing the same where you hunt.

 Later in the season, cold weather will get all the deer feeding more often in order to raise their caloric intake, which means more time on their feet and a better opportunity to be seen.  This makes life a lot easier on you in finding and hopefully killing a deer. 

Go have fun!

Thank you!

[mendozer]

we'll be heading out tomorrow for a weekend hunt. Are they in the rut right now? I'm excited to try my rattlers and calls

[Natas5150]

we'll be heading out tomorrow for a weekend hunt. Are they in the rut right now? I'm excited to try my rattlers and calls

Unfortunately we are in the pre rut, meaning things are just starting for deer. That's not to say it is a bad time to hunt just because its the pre rut. Just means as the seasons wears on the better your chances may become. In the full rut bucks throw all caution out the window, which is why I think it is the best time to hunt. Remember some rut seasons are better than others. Just because the full rut is not here don't let it stop you from going out.

[IRONMIKE88]

I road hunted two years ago when I was recovering from knee surgery. One thing I learned was that when I was driving through the woods and saw a clearing, I'd pull over right away and get out of my Jeep as quietly as I could and walk (mostly limped my way in my knee brace) up to the edge of the clearing.

[Stein]

Go find the darkest, nastiest dog hair timber you can imagine.  Use that as a highway to get to the truly nightmarish stuff. When you are there, find a steep draw and head down.  Go past Squatchie and the troll and then you are just on the fringe of good blacktail habitat come hunting season.  If you can do that during the night, all the better.

I admire the guys who consistently take those things.  Last time I hunted them, I jumped one that was maybe 10 yards away and I never saw as much as a single hair.

[fishnfur]

This is more the "early season" vs. the "pre-rut".   The authors of all the great BT hunting books consider pre-rut to start in mid-October (I think).  That is when the bucks will start to get restless and start travelling around a bit looking to see where the groups of does are and what the competition looks like.  My own take on this is that the first doe or two that comes into estrous, which generally happens as early as the first couple weeks of October is enough to get the bucks thinking that they might just get lucky if they get up and look around a bit.  The vast majority of the does will not hit estrous for another 3 - 5 weeks at least, but these first few hot does are enough to get the boys moving.  Early fawning in the Spring is compelling evidence for the early dates that these does likely hit estrous and were subsequently bred.

As for now, you might still get a response from deer by gently tickling antlers as though you are a couple of bucks sparring for fun.  They may start to do this as soon as the velvet comes off - early mornings or dusk might be a good time to try rattling.  Certainly nothing aggressive with the horns though.  Bucks are not competing for or defending territory at this point. 

A fawn bleat used to imitate an injured or panicking fawn may get you a lot of action quickly if there are does in the area.  Occasionally, bucks will come in to a fawn bleat as well.  Be well hidden with a good view around you if you try either of these tactics.  Be prepared to take a shot immediately.  It might happen fast.

[JakeLand]

Here's my 2 cents on blacktails they are unpredictable compared to muleys and whitetail because food and water do not play a major role in what they do day to day so rule that out I'm a big fan of benches and away from roads whether they are gated off logging roads or ungated because roads mean people and people make them always on guard find benches in steep terrain and mark trails to and from clearcuts and benches don't have to big large at all the prime time for blacktails are around Halloween and when it's storming and raining like a son of a bitch out they get out of the timber and into clear cuts so they can use there eyes and nose because it's loud in the timber  hopefully this helps and remember the last minutes of light when everyone else is heading to there trucks is the BEST time to score THAT buck good luck     Jake

[Turner89]

Here's my 2 cents on blacktails they are unpredictable compared to muleys and whitetail because food and water do not play a major role in what they do day to day so rule that out I'm a big fan of benches and away from roads whether they are gated off logging roads or ungated because roads mean people and people make them always on guard find benches in steep terrain and mark trails to and from clearcuts and benches don't have to big large at all the prime time for blacktails are around Halloween and when it's storming and raining like a son of a bitch out they get out of the timber and into clear cuts so they can use there eyes and nose because it's loud in the timber  hopefully this helps and remember the last minutes of light when everyone else is heading to there trucks is the BEST time to score THAT buck good luck     Jake

what he said.

[bradslam]

Here's my 2 cents on blacktails they are unpredictable compared to muleys and whitetail because food and water do not play a major role in what they do day to day so rule that out I'm a big fan of benches and away from roads whether they are gated off logging roads or ungated because roads mean people and people make them always on guard find benches in steep terrain and mark trails to and from clearcuts and benches don't have to big large at all the prime time for blacktails are around Halloween and when it's storming and raining like a son of a bitch out they get out of the timber and into clear cuts so they can use there eyes and nose because it's loud in the timber  hopefully this helps and remember the last minutes of light when everyone else is heading to there trucks is the BEST time to score THAT buck good luck     Jake

what he said.

...but with punctuation. 

[fishnfur]

Exactly correct.  That method does require bad weather right before Halloween, which often happens, but is not a given.

I assumed that you had an archery tag at the onset of the thread.  Perhaps it is a multi-season, which will give you much better odds when the bucks are actually up and moving.  If it is indeed an archery only tag, your best bet for a buck will be RIGHT after the Late Buck hunt for Modern Rifle Season ends, sometime in mid-November.  There still should be some rutting activity going on, though it will be winding down quickly over the next 10 days or so.

One very good hunter on an Oregon hunting forum I used to follow always said that the 26th of October was the date that the big bucks finally get up and go do the rounds to find out where the does are.  His recommendation was to find intersecting trails in a likely area and sit on it all day, and the next if necessary.  I always thought this guy was full of crap, but he scored a nice buck every year doing just that.  I think the real point is that just being in the woods in late October on trails that are deer traveling trails vs. feeding trails (ie: along/below ridgelines, saddles etc.) gives you a real shot at seeing a good buck.

[JeffRaines]

Exactly correct.  That method does require bad weather right before Halloween, which often happens, but is not a given.

I assumed that you had an archery tag at the onset of the thread.  Perhaps it is a multi-season, which will give you much better odds when the bucks are actually up and moving.  If it is indeed an archery only tag, your best bet for a buck will be RIGHT after the Late Buck hunt for Modern Rifle Season ends, sometime in mid-November.  There still should be some rutting activity going on, though it will be winding down quickly over the next 10 days or so.

One very good hunter on an Oregon hunting forum I used to follow always said that the 26th of October was the date that the big bucks finally get up and go do the rounds to find out where the does are.  His recommendation was to find intersecting trails in a likely area and sit on it all day, and the next if necessary.  I always thought this guy was full of crap, but he scored a nice buck every year doing just that.  I think the real point is that just being in the woods in late October on trails that are deer traveling trails vs. feeding trails (ie: along/below ridgelines, saddles etc.) gives you a real shot at seeing a good buck.

I do have a plain archery tag. I tried to buy a multi-season, but I didn't put in for one this year so I couldn't unfortunately. I'm not sure why they don't go ahead and open it up to everyone seeing as there are leftovers, but thats for another thread...

If I end up making it to late season without a harvest this is advice I will heed. Thank you!

edit: Actually, I want to thank everyone who has participated in this thread so far. There has been a great wealth of information shared thus far, more than enough to get someone thinking and started. I do appreciate all of it. Thank you.

[fishnfur]

Just for grins, why don't you try and buy a multi-season tag.  I thought I saw a post where someone recently said there were still some available over the counter.  It'll cost you 160 bucks or so.....   I forget the amount.  You might be able to do it online at WDFW if there are still some available.

[JeffRaines]

No dice, at least online.

It was probably two weeks or so ago that I tried. The system showed it as available, but when she went to finalize the purchase it said that I couldn't buy the license due to rule violations. I was like woah, I've never even talked to a warden before much less had "rule violations"... She called wdfw and it they told her that I couldn't buy it without having applied for it previously.

[fishnfur]

Bummer.    Perhaps call them yourself tomorrow.

Anyway, good luck with your hunting.  Stay out there.  Move super slow.  Glass everywhere and everything.  Rain on Wednesday may get them up and moving a bit earlier in the evening if you don't have time to hunt during the day.

[huntingbaldguy]

Try to go in person for the multi-season tag.  You have to turn in your archery tag, and you can't do that online for obvious reasons, so that might be why they won't let you get it online.

I have a similar scenario i'm going through.  I have a big tract of land i'm hunting and i can't find their daytime spots.  I have them coming in to bait at night only and i mean literally starting at 830 to 9 pm they come in and are back every 2 hours.  It's maddening.  I've spent probably 3 total days in the stand already and seen only a doe with 2 fawns come in in shooting light.  There's very little terrain features on this piece of land and i'm wondering if they spend their time bedded in the thick nasty about a quarter mile away.  I'm planning to put cams up on a few travel lanes in different directions to see if i can catch them on the way to/from bait and then move my stand to those spots for a shot in last light/first light.  The 3 bucks i have on cam take turns sparring on cam, over the bait pile.  It's entertaining to say the least to look at pics, but it's driving me insane that they only come in at night.