Unsuccessful BT hunt

[mendozer]

Just got back from a 4 day hunt on the west side for BT empty handed. We missed shot opportunities on a doe and while driving back to camp one night, we saw a big buck cross the road, not 3 minutes from our campsite. We set up the following morning and then evening, but nothing. We didn't see it cross the road again, we didn't find anything all that fresh in the woods there. We scoured probably 15 acres of land total. I found one scrape and several tree rubs. I camped out by the scrape since that's what I found to be a good thing in my deer book (doh! noob move) and no action. Now I'm assuming that if we stayed on that spot 4 days in a row we might have got em. But with our limited time seeing him only Saturday night, we had only Sunday to try. And since we were empty handed, we tried another spot this morning with better woods for stalking (quieter floor with hotter game trail).

So a few questions for the experts...
1) would he have come back to that scrape in a few days?
2) does a buck smell slightly sweet/tangy? I was near a den that tracks led to that I got a whiff of this
3) what would YOU have done to track him down?

I'm quite sad about it since it was easily a 200 lb guy. But for my first time out bowhunting, I don't feel too bad. I saw diddly squat rifle hunting last year.

[notellumcreek]

I would have looked for feeding area and beds around the same trail he was on. It depends if you were in some serious reprod or big timber or clearcut or Cause those guys are sneaky and he might not have been far from ya. Tough to find big blackies this early they dont get big being stupid.

[Turner89]

I dont think that you were on a scrape from a blacktail. They defiantly rub the heck out of trees , but I've never seen a blacktail scrape. This time of year best bet is to find a place they are feeding on. Its tougher right now to find them with all the leaves on brush, and trees.

[2labs]

I bet he could find you

[fishnfur]

Pretty exciting just seeing a big buck this time of year.  I think you did well in your hunting attempts.  I do agree that in general, Blacktails are not known to make scrapes like Whitetails do.  Every once in awhile you will find a hunter who swear he has seen them, but it is certainly not a typical behavior.  Even if it was truly a scrape, I would assume that in early Sept., it is just a territory mark that he would not likely return to regularly this time of year.   He may be close by, but probably not guarding that spot.  You should have seen some fresh rubs on small brushes and trees that showed signs of rubbing off velvet.  Some consider these rubs territorial marking as well as the bigger rubs made at the start of the rut.

I'm not much of a hunter, but I think staying close to the trail that you saw him on when he crossed the road was your best bet.  BTs are notoriously hard to pattern and may only use a trail once a month, or once a year.  Unless you have multiple sighting of the deer over a longish period of time, you just never know exactly how or when they are going to travel from point A to point B. 

Picking a trail or intersection of multiple trails that show recent sign is your best bet for increasing your odds for seeing deer.  Chances are decent that if a specific deer used a trail yesterday, then he may use it again today.  In my mind, if the deer used it ten days ago, all bets are off - the deer is likely somewhere in the neighboring half-mile radius from that point.

[bowtechian]

Where you seen that blacktail cross back track track his trail you could find his core area

[crowinghen]

Sounds like you had fun! I think BT's are a hard bunch to hunt! They are always in the thick stuff it seems!

[mendozer]

I was on the west side, like I said, but I don't think it was a whitetail since those are mainly SW Washington right?

I did see a fair amount of rubs, but couldn't tell how fresh. The freshest poop I found was somewhat hard  on the outside, so I guess a few days freshest at the most.

I thought bucks stay put in their core area so we surrounded it thoroughly.

The only "trail" we saw him on was the logging road. Uphill of that was dense forest (which I scaled down the next morning over the next hour and a half!) Downhill of it was STEEP drop into a gully. I found mixed old sign so I theorized that it was looping his path in overlapping circles.

[Natas5150]

The elusive black tail the ghost of the woods. I would say go back to same area you saw that big buck and look around the area he is probably feeding and bedding somewhere in or near that area. You never know. Just don't give up. When you think you are done hunting for day wait 5 more minutes. 

[b0bbyg]

listen for squirrels they can chirp at all kinds of critters.
I had a squirrel rat out a buck yesterday. The buck busted me sneaking in at about 30-40 yards before I spotted him behind some brush. probably moving too fast looking too little.

I was hoping I was sneaking up on an Elk    but it was fun to see him either way and he was legal if I had the chance.

[mendozer]

what kind of stuff do they eat? In the woods everything looks the same, brushy, low ground cover vs ferns vs trees.

[Team Baze]

Is this a real post?

[jackelope]

Is this a real post?

What exactly is it that you find questionable? Seems pretty clear to me that we have a new hunter looking for some advice.  Maybe I'm missing something.

[Team Baze]

Some of the questions he's asking kind of sounds like he's yanking your chain. Talking about whitetails in SW washington? Only hunting 15 acres for 4 straight days? I'm all about helping people out but this one kind of had me asking myself is this guy real?  This forum is about sharing stories and seeking and giving advice. I'm not try to be a smart ass I'm just curious.

[Natas5150]

Some of the questions he's asking kind of sounds like he's yanking your chain. Talking about whitetails in SW washington? Only hunting 15 acres for 4 straight days? I'm all about helping people out but this one kind of had me asking myself is this guy real?  This forum is about sharing stories and seeking and giving advice. I'm not try to be a smart ass I'm just curious.

I think you are reading too much into what he is asking. I think all his questions were valid. By you questioning his thread all you are going to is get him and others upset and the next thing you know this thread has gone to trash.

[mendozer]

Of course they're real questions! and Yes I'm fairly new to hunting looking for advice.

The 15ish acres is a guestimate of where that buck was. I was driving all over looking for the does and another spot was for elk.

When I ask what they eat, I mean specific plants to look for. the forest I was in was not very diverse so any help with what kinds of plants they eat is helpful. Even if I'm not a botanist I should be able to narrow down food sources.

Otherwise, at my current level of knowledge, I just walk around looking for tracks and poop. And that's not the best level of understanding since guessing the age can be tricky.

If you have nothing constructive of helpful to add, there are other threads you can chime in with your comments. 

[mendozer]

And Team Baze, there is a Columbian Whitetail located on the west side of the cascades, but it's mainly limited to SW corner and is not legal to hunt. So yeah, there are whitetails

[Team Baze]

Jesus sorry to ruffle any feathers. I forgot we are a kindler and gentler society this day and age, didn't mean to offend anyone.  Also thanks for the info on the whitetails didn't realize that.

[HankC]

I'm also learning just how elusive bt are. Been out 4 days and have only been able to find signs. I read they don't move around too much but would bucks who are nocturnal completely abandon that routine during the rut? Seems like they would still stay hidden during hunting hours.

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[mendozer]

I thought the same thing. Plus how do we really know when the rut is? My book says it begins in mid October, yet I often hear that Archers in Washington have the benefit of the rut, which here is September?

Confusing. I also didn't hear any deer calling, only elk. I have my deer call, but who knows how realistic it is since I don't hear anything else making noise

[HankC]

I think we catch the tail end of the rut at the start of late archery. I sat in some spots with deer sign for 1-2 hours while calling and got nothing. Might be too early? Or they just don't come out in the day.

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[billythekidrock]

Some of the questions he's asking kind of sounds like he's yanking your chain. Talking about whitetails in SW washington? Only hunting 15 acres for 4 straight days? I'm all about helping people out but this one kind of had me asking myself is this guy real?  This forum is about sharing stories and seeking and giving advice. I'm not try to be a smart ass I'm just curious.

The questions seem legit to me.
Yes, there are whitetails in SW Washington and I can say that I have repeatedly hunted core areas as small as several acres.

[billythekidrock]

I thought the same thing. Plus how do we really know when the rut is? My book says it begins in mid October, yet I often hear that Archers in Washington have the benefit of the rut, which here is September?

Confusing. I also didn't hear any deer calling, only elk. I have my deer call, but who knows how realistic it is since I don't hear anything else making noise

The last week of October is the best opportunity to hunt the rut. That falls during general rifle season, but there are many firearm restricted areas that you can hunt successfully with a bow.

Blacktails are not as vocal as whitetail but they will grunt and bleat during the rut. It is seldom that you will hear them vocalize.

[predatorG]

I thought the same thing. Plus how do we really know when the rut is? My book says it begins in mid October, yet I often hear that Archers in Washington have the benefit of the rut, which here is September?

Confusing. I also didn't hear any deer calling, only elk. I have my deer call, but who knows how realistic it is since I don't hear anything else making noise

They mean late archery season

[M_ray]

 

I shot a BT buck before in the late archery hunt on Dec 5th that was glued to a doe. I jumped them at about 10 yards they ran out to 50-55 yards and he had me in a stare down for 15 minutes while the doe settled down and started feeding ... there is no way that I shoot that buck unless he something else on his mind so IMO the BT rut goes well into the late Archery opener.  BTW it was a mature 4 point not a young buck so clearly still rutting.

[mendozer]

ah gotcha. And I assume pre-rut calling is futile then. Unless doe calling still might interest a buck

[fishnfur]

Mendozer - read up on the internet.  Google "blacktail tactics" and "blacktail rut".  Read 15 articles from the first search, six or seven from the second.  Many of your questions will be answered.  Also, consider reading Scott Haugen's Trophy Blacktails - the science of the hunt and Boyd Iverson's Trophy Blacktail Tactics II.  They will school you well for most every question you could ask.

- calling for blacktails is a fairly low percentage set of techniques, but you only need it to work once per season if everything goes well.  Bleats occasionally will bring in an animal during the rut.  Generally, deer are not really known to bleat unless they are injured or under threat of death so many question why it works at all. 

Low volume rattling and grunting is occasionally effective in bringing in BT bucks.  These tactics are much more effective with WTs, but they do work.  BTs were direct descendants of WTs that developed along the west coast thousands of year ago.  It should surprise no one that they still share many similar characteristics and traits, and will respond to stimuli similarly.   BTs have been heard by many hunters to display a grunt or snort wheeze in displays of dominance, often in conjunction with antler bashing battles.      Sidebar:  An interesting study back in the mid-west showed that hunters only saw something like 25% of the bucks that responded to rattling. (The deer came in, the hunters didn't see them)  Just because you don't see the buck doesn't mean he's not coming around you 30 yards downwind figuring out what you are before he runs in to watch the fight, or kick some jr. buck's butt. 

Deer food:  roughly 45% of a blacktail's diet is trailing blackberry if it is available.  In SW WA, they eat the hell out of salmonberry too.  Other areas are different - Western Sword Fern tips, salal, huckleberry, elderberry, big leaf and vine maple, scotch broom, and only 10% grass in general (pretty much a little of everything).  BT's are able to survive on a wide variety of browse but prefer blackberry over almost everything else due to its high protein content.  The wide variety of foods they eat makes them difficult to pattern, since they have food wherever they go.  It also allows bucks to remain in very small core areas when experiencing high hunting pressure.  They don't need to travel to eat.

Rut dates.  The PEAK of the rut is generally considered to be the second week of November (no deer hunting open during this time (except for a few lucky hunters who drew tags)).  In a population of does, the number of does entering estrous occurs in the shape of a bell curve, with the highest point of that curve being centered over the second week of November.  The two ends of the curve extend out to the beginning of October and into early January.  There will be one or two does out of hundreds in a local population that are really early or really late coming into estrous.  That gets the bucks or a couple of bucks chasing early and keeps them going late in the season and accounts for hunter reports that "the rut is started" or "the rut is still going strong" when in actuality, it is just a trickle at one of the ends of the estrous bell curve.  A study on Western Washington Blacktails showed that something like 95% of does were bred by the 25th of November and 99.9% of the does were bred by the end of the first week of December. 

If you're trying to take advantage of the rut during late archery, you have just a few days before the rut is seriously winding down.  Most bucks quickly loose interest (when there's no hot does around) and start trying to recover the weight they lost during the rut in preparation for winter.

That's almost everything I think I know.

[chester]

that about covers it.


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[predatorG]

So it sounds like, as soon as rut starts winding down, dump a ton of blackberries and apples.

[fishnfur]

I don't bait deer, so I don't know.   After the rut, you're back to 1). trying to figure out where they will be, and then trying to be there when they show up, or 2). trying to see them in their beds or bump them from their beds and getting a shot off before they're gone.

You could not dump enough blackberry vines to draw a deer in to feed.  They occur naturally almost everywhere so they likely will not come to a pile of leaves with human stink all over them.  Red cedar boughs on the other hand are a great attractant in the late fall after all other browse has frozen and de-leafed.  Find a recently fallen red cedar tree and you've got a feed source that will last a month or more.

Read.  Take it to the field.

[predatorG]

Yah my post was more of a joke. I am hoping to nail one in the rut so I don't even need to worry about post rut.