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Author Topic: Tuning Question  (Read 4638 times)

Offline Angry Perch

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Tuning Question
« on: September 02, 2015, 07:55:22 PM »
Bought the bow a while back, and have been practicing a little. Feeling good to 30 yards with good groups. Screwed on a broadhead an it was 4-5" right at 20 yards. Shot a field point, right on the money. Another broadhead 4-6" right. Now I see this. What's my next step, adjust rest and shoot paper? At least I have some time before archery season... Doh!

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Offline Redbeard

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Re: Tuning Question
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2015, 08:59:39 PM »
Shoot paper and see where you are at first. Its a good starting point.
Does the broadhead spin true on the arrow?

Offline hogslayer

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Re: Tuning Question
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2015, 09:23:32 PM »
There can be multiple issues if your bbroadheads are hitting right.  First and easiest fix is your form.  Most of the time when people are shooting right it's because they are gripping the bow and causing torque. Shoot with your hand open or with all your finger it's on the riser and see what happens.  Next I would check draw length and weight and see if the arrow spine is correct.  Your rest could be off.  But I would check those things first before moving the rest.  Shooting paper would give you an idea if you have a left tear or not.

Offline Jellymon

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Re: Tuning Question
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2015, 11:21:55 PM »
Dont worry about your pins being left of your rest and  arrow at rest, thats normal and yours actually looks good for a fixed rolller guard hoyt. Thats the torque caused by the fixed roller guard. At full draw the riser twists, and everything lines up. Im pretty sure your bow needs to be yoke tuned,  but we need more info to truly help you out.
What is the draw length, poundage, arrow length, point weight, and arrow spine. This will help rule out variables. Also place an arrow flat on the left side of your cam so that the arrow meets your nock point and let us know whether the arrow parellels your string, points directly at your nock point, or if the arrow crosses your string and how much. This is needed to know if you have the proper pre-lean or "angle" on your top cam which is used for yoke tuning. If your yoke (the "Y" in your buss cable used to adjust the lean in the top cam. You need a little bit of pre lean in this \ direction in order to tune that bow) is off enough  your bow will never tune using the rest.
This is if Everything else is good. Hoyts are sensitive to grip and if tuning doesnt work grip could definitely be a culprit.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 04:53:19 AM by Jellymon »

Offline Angry Perch

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Re: Tuning Question
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2015, 06:44:45 AM »
Arrow spins fine.

Do you mean like this? Arrow resting on  left side of top cam crosses string at about center of nock point.
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Offline DVET253

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Re: Tuning Question
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2015, 06:52:13 AM »
To add to what others have said, which are all great areas to look at first....form, grip, cam lean etc.

When setting up a bow I will have already completed the above mentioned items, cam lean, cam sync, set rest and nock point to a good starting point etc. I will set my nock point to run 90 degrees to the string so that the shaft runs through the berger holes on the riser, and then for a rough setting of the left/right on the rest, nock an arrow and install in rest (in your case in the whisker biscuit) then take another shaft and hold it against the riser next to the rest and roughly adjust the rest so that the arrow in the rest runs parallel to the arrow being held against the riser as seen from above.

Once I have a starting point for the initial centershot, I will then perform a Modified French Tune:

Modified French Tuning Method:  (total distance needed to complete tuning – 10yds)

Conditions: Hang target face at shoulder height. Insert nail at the top center of target, hang a weighted string (bailing twine, small rope, twine etc...) so that the string splits bull’s-eye in half.

NOTE:
 In the following text, reference to “hitting the string” or similar is used. Depending on the design of the field point being used, the string maybe “pushed” to the side upon initial arrow penetration of target. In the event the arrow makes contact with the string, it will often just push the string into the target.

a.   Start @ 9ft.  Aligning your sight pins along the string, Fire a field point arrow.

➢   If arrow misses either left or right of string, move entire front sight housing in the SAME direction. Use small increments!
➢   Fire arrow and adjust sights @ 9ft. until the arrow hits the weighted string.

b.   Move to a position 10 yds away, Fire a three (3) arrow group, triangulate the group and determine group center.

➢   If the center of the group is to either the left or the right of the weighted string, then the arrow rest must be moved in the OPPOSITE direction of the group. Use small increments!
➢   Fire a three (3) arrow group and adjust rest in small increments until the weighted string splits the arrow group in half

c.   Move back to 9ft, again aligning sight pins along the string, Fire a field point arrow.

➢   If arrow does not hit the weighted string then adjust front sight, again adjust the sight in the SAME direction as the arrow impact i.e. if arrow impacts left, then move sight to the left.
➢   Fire arrow and adjust, repeat until the arrow hits the string.

d.   Move back to 10yds, Fire another three (3) arrow group, triangulate the group and determine group center.
➢    If the center of the group is to either the left or the right of the weighted string, then the arrow rest must be moved in the OPPOSITE direction of the group. Use small increments!
➢   Fire a three (3) arrow group and adjust rest in small increments until the weighted string splits the arrow group in half.
Repeat this process until the arrow at 9ft and your three (3) arrow group at 10yds both split the hanging string.

Once that is complete I will then adjust my pins for respective yardages (this is not a final setting, only to help elevate lost or damaged arrows in the next tuning phase).

Now I will take two arrows, one with my broadhead of choice and one with field point. I typically start at 30 yards for this, however if distance is limited less is ok, farther is even better! I will then fire the broadhead tipped arrow first, followed by the field point (cutting head in target first will cut down on time needed to refletch or replace arrow shaft.. :chuckle:). Once you've fire both arrows into the target evaluate your impact of both. Regardless of where the broadhead lands in relation to the field point, you will need to bring the broadhead to the field point tipped arrow. If the broadhead impacts left, move rest to the right, if BH impact right, move rest to the left (small increments). The goal here is to have the BH and FP at the same POI (point of impact). If you have multiple corrections i.e. BH is to the right and high....adjust for one thing at a time (get either your horizontal or vertical corrected before adjusting for the other). If for some reason you are unable to get BH and FP to impact at same POI, then there is still an initial setup tune issue, timing, cam lean, correct arrow spine etc...

After getting good BH and FP POI, go ahead and re-verify your front sight again (with same POI between BH and FP, you've essentially found your bows correct centershot, and any impact left/or right of aim point will be corrected with movement of the front sight) and then also re-verify your pin gaps for the respective yardages.

Once this is complete you should be able to stack BH and FP tipped arrows at most hunting distances. The farther out you BH and FP tune, the finer your tune will be.

RE: arrow on cam..... Yes!
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 06:58:21 AM by DVET253 »
2018 Hoyt RX-1 Ultra (subalpine) 70Lbs
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Offline Angry Perch

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Re: Tuning Question
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2015, 06:53:33 AM »
70# Hoyt Vector, but honestly not sure exact weight. It's backed off a little, so guessing mid-upper 60's

29" draw length

Easton Helios arrows, 340 spine, cut to 28.5" (shaft length only)

100 grain field tips and broadheads.
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Offline Jellymon

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Re: Tuning Question
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2015, 07:21:17 AM »
Arrow spins fine.

Do you mean like this? Arrow resting on  left side of top cam crosses string at about center of nock point.

   That looks pretty good. You can maybe get two more twists in the left yoke and two out of the right one which would put the center of  your arrow about 3/16" past your nock point but that is about the max I would go for safety reasons. If you need more then that then it's something else. You adjust 1/2 twist at a time into the left yoke and out of the right one until broadheads move to field points. You adjust both equally to keep your cams in synch. But like I said, I wouldn't go more than 2 full twists more per yoke leg than you already have. A press is required for this. This is basically moving your string left and right, kind of like moving the rest but has a bigger impact, it's your large adjustment to get close before using methods like mentioned above using the rest.
    Rest movement is a fine adjustment. Broadheads 4-5" right at 20yds is a lot, and bigger adjustments like yoke tuning and draw length/grip adjustments are probably needed. Your pre lean in your cam looks close, a little more might help,  and your arrow spine seems good, which makes me think that your draw length might be too long. This pulls your release arm back behind your head out of alignment of the arrow and can easily cause broadheads to impact right of field points. This is just a guess though without being there.
And remember when broadheads are hitting right of field points, some combinations (actually most when using a drop away rest) of modern equipment will require you to move the rest to the RIGHT to get them to impact together. This doesn't seem to make sense, but something in the way the arrow bends while leaving the bow makes this happen. So don't be afraid to go the opposite way if what your doing isn't working. What is your centershot? Distance from the riser (not rubber pad) to the center of the arrow.

Basically what you're dealing with is Hoyts fixed roller guard which puts a ton of torque into the riser. More then most bows, and is why they are now using a flexible roller guard on the 2015's which flexes inward to relieve some of that torque. The vectors were particularly bad. I had pretty much the same issue with my vector turbo and took the roller guard off and installed a cable slide. MUCH easier to tune. Here is the link to my thread about it. Ever wonder why Hoyts $1500 target bows still use cable slides? :o

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,168155.msg2225111.html#msg2225111
« Last Edit: September 03, 2015, 08:14:17 AM by Jellymon »

Offline Angry Perch

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Re: Tuning Question
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2015, 07:57:51 AM »
Will measure center shot after work. And thank you all for the help. Will have some time to shoot this weekend and hopefully get things straightened out.
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Offline coachcw

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Re: Tuning Question
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2015, 05:40:57 AM »
paper tune first and re zero field points . then take one broadhead and rotate it till it hits the same . my three blades seem to like being opposite the fletchings . once you have one flying well then set the rest the same . grip is critical and if its a short axle bow you can fight it even more . I always make sure all my bh are turned the same .

Offline Letmwork

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Re: Tuning Question
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2015, 08:22:09 PM »
Move rest to left until both have same poi. With a Broadhead you have a wing on the front of the arrow which is going to guide the arrow in the direction the arrow is pointing in relation of the rest to string.

Offline Angry Perch

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Re: Tuning Question
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2015, 08:31:46 PM »
Yep. Made the adjustment this weekend and everything seems to be OK. Thanks guys.
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