Elk hunting with a 12 guage... questions!

[SeatoSummit88]

Hey everyone,

  This year I am elk hunting in a different way; going to be in an area that is limited to bow, muzzle or shotgun.  I already have a trustworthy Remington 870 express.  I have never hunted with slugs, so I am out of my element.  Would I be looking for a fully rifled barrel replacement?  Currently I am shooting 12 gauge  2 3/4 loads (target,bird shot).  I have heard of sabot and standard slugs... which one would you recommend? or is that dependent on the type of barrel I would purchase?  My end goal is to find a replacement barrel and the correct slugs so that I may have the option to reach out to 100 yards or even a tad further.  I understand the shooting complex of shotguns vs. high powered rifles, however, I don't want to mis-match a barrel to the wrong ammo.  I am expecting close range with the elk we are hunting, but I want to be sure I have something that can reach them if they take off or get spooked and keep a distance!   thanks for you input!!!

[Special T]

Buckshot for head shots.if your barrel has a removable choke dont use slugs. There may be some slugs that are ok but as a general rule they arnt. You could get a rifled barrel if you cant find a slug to work in your current barrel.

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[Bob33]

Definitely go with slugs for elk. I've killed three with a 12 gauge and slugs. If you have a rifled barrel it is likely your accuracy will be improved. I have a rifled barrel on an 870, and put a 2-7x scope on the gun. I am confident I can ethically hit and kill an elk out to 125 yards under most conditions.

[SeatoSummit88]

Thanks SpecialT, I appreciate the advice. I have found slugs that will work for my current barrel.  I think I do want to try and find a rifled barrel, for better accuracy.

Thanks Bob33,  I appreciate the advice as well. Good to hear you have killed elk with a 12 gauge.  What do you think a new replacement rifled barrel will run me, $200-$250?  So with purchasing a rifled barrel, do I need slugs or sabots?  and what grain would you recommend for elk? 

[MountainWalk]

Lightfield full bore size slugs. Seems like most shotty slugs are pretty soft. Why shoot 50cal when you can launch 72cal slugs?

[luvmystang67]

Get a rifled barrel and saboted slugs.  You can do well.  >100 yards is definitely possible if you practice.  Those slugs are expensive though.

[12Gauge]

Buckshot for head shots.

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This is a horrible advise because it is illegal. 

Special T you may have missed it, OP says he is hunting elk,  regulations calls for slugs only for elk.

Buckshot is ok for deer. 



Smooth bore use rifled slugs;  rifle barrel use sabot.
 

[JimmyHoffa]

Buckshot for head shots.if your barrel has a removable choke dont use slugs. There may be some slugs that are ok but as a general rule they arnt. You could get a rifled barrel if you cant find a slug to work in your current barrel.

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Is buckshot okay on elk?  Thought it had to be 10 or12 gauge slugs

[Bob33]

Thanks SpecialT, I appreciate the advice. I have found slugs that will work for my current barrel.  I think I do want to try and find a rifled barrel, for better accuracy.

Thanks Bob33,  I appreciate the advice as well. Good to hear you have killed elk with a 12 gauge.  What do you think a new replacement rifled barrel will run me, $200-$250?  So with purchasing a rifled barrel, do I need slugs or sabots?  and what grain would you recommend for elk?

Yes, in that price range. If you can get within 50 yards or so, a smoothbore barrel with no choke might work fine but a rifled barrel will be better in most instances. I shoot sabots in mine. I killed one elk with a 400 grain Winchester Platinum tip, and two with Remington Core Lokt Ultras that are 385 grains.

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/shotshells/slugs/premier-core-lokt-ultra-bonded-sabot-slugs.aspx

[steeleywhopper]

saboted slugs in a rifled barrel and rifled slugs in smooth barrel. I would drop the coin for a rifled barrel with a cantilever scope mount. Got one on my 870 and it flat gets it done. Have taken deer out to 167 yards with Hornady sst slugs. I run a 2x7 power scope on mine.

[Special T]

Buckshot for head shots.

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This is a horrible advise because it is illegal. 

Special T you may have missed it, OP says he is hunting elk,  regulations calls for slugs only for elk.

Buckshot is ok for deer. 



Smooth bore use rifled slugs;  rifle barrel use sabot.

Show me. Is this a new developement?

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[Bob33]

Sabots are plastic sleeves that enclose a slug. Shooting one through a smoothbore will most likely result in the equivalent of a knuckle ball. They need rifling to impart a spin to the sabot/slug combination before they leave the barrel.

In fact, some rifled barrels are slightly overbore and don't impart enough spin either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun_slug

Saboted slugs are lead-cored, full copper-jacketed or solid copper projectiles supported by a plastic sabot, which is designed to engage the rifling in a rifled shotgun barrel and impart a ballistic spin onto the projectile. This differentiates them from traditional slugs, which are not designed to benefit from a rifled barrel (though neither does the other any damage). They can take the usual variety of shapes, but for maximum accuracy are typically bullet-shaped (ogive). The slugs are generally significantly smaller than the bore diameter, increasing the ballistic coefficient, and use the sabot to seal the bore and keep the slug centered in the bore while it rotates with the rifling. Saboted slugs, when fired out of a rifled barrel, are generally far more accurate than non-jacketed slugs out of a smoothbore, with accuracy to 300 metres (330 yd) approaching that of low-velocity rifle calibers.

[12Gauge]

Buckshot for head shots.

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This is a horrible advise because it is illegal. 

Special T you may have missed it, OP says he is hunting elk,  regulations calls for slugs only for elk.

Buckshot is ok for deer. 



Smooth bore use rifled slugs;  rifle barrel use sabot.

Show me. Is this a new developement?

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Page 85 of the hunting regulations, under shotguns.

Not sure if it is new development, but it's the same rule as last year.

[Special T]

Guess its a good thing I never hunted the battle ground unit for elk!

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[WAcoyotehunter]

You can shoot slugs through a choke tube just fine.  Use regular rifled slugs and if you have screw in choke tubes use improved cylinder or open. 

Sabots are ok through rifled barrels, in a smooth bore barrel use rifled slugs.  Thousands of deer hunters use them every year in the Midwest with good results.

[SeatoSummit88]

Thanks all!  I appreciate the input and advice!  I think I am going to purchase a rifled barrel and give it a shot.  I was planning on buying a muzzleloader, however, I don't believe I would use it at all outside of hunting season.  I don't want to purchase a new gun, if I am only taking it out 5-10 times a year. Black powder doesn't interest me too much.  With just purchasing a replacement barrel, I can still optimize a variety of uses out of my shotgun, big game to upland bird.  I think I am going to check out Cabela's or Bass Pro this weekend and go from there.  I would like to get a few shots out of it before the season begins.  I have a tikka t3 ultralight, .300 win mag,  am I going to feel the same kick out of a rifled barrel shotgun as I do with my tikka?

thanks guys!  this site rocks for help and advice!  If any of you ever are down in Westport the same time I go, next season for fall coho or kings. I would be happy to point out some killer holes!!

[mikeybuck]

Lightfield full bore size slugs. Seems like most shotty slugs are pretty soft. Why shoot 50cal when you can launch 72cal slugs?

Yes they work good to. I've killed one elk with a 12ga.
If you need some light fields I have A few boxes I'll make you a good deal on.

[Bob33]

I have a tikka t3 ultralight, .300 win mag,  am I going to feel the same kick out of a rifled barrel shotgun as I do with my tikka?

I'm reluctant to tell you this, but it will be worse. 300 to 400 grains of projectile creates wicked recoil.  Use some good padding and limit your shots at the range or you're likely to develop a flinch. Keep a firm grip on the gun when firing, and don't forget to have fun. You won't need a spotting scope to see the holes!

[superdown]

Here are two mossberg brand barrels for the remington 870 first one is the cantilever scope mount model and the second is the open site version.They are only $199.99 each  http://www.midwayusa.com/product/535624/mossberg-slug-barrel-remington-870-special-purpose-12-gauge-3-24-rifled-with-cantilever-scope-mount-matte?cm_vc=ProductFinding

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/452401/mossberg-slug-barrel-remington-870-special-purpose-12-gauge-3-24-rifled-with-rifle-sights-matte?cm_vc=ProductFinding

[Chukarhead]

I have a tikka t3 ultralight, .300 win mag,  am I going to feel the same kick out of a rifled barrel shotgun as I do with my tikka?

I'm reluctant to tell you this, but it will be worse. 300 to 400 grains of projectile creates wicked recoil.  Use some good padding and limit your shots at the range or you're likely to develop a flinch. Keep a firm grip on the gun when firing, and don't forget to have fun. You won't need a spotting scope to see the holes!

It'll be a bumpy ride, but my experience is that shotgun slugs aren't horrid, either.  Sure, huge projectile, but they're being launched at a much, much lower velocity.  Shotguns also tend to heavier than ultralight mountain rifles, which dulls the thud.  Granted, most of the slugs I've shot are from my heavy, soft-shooting Beretta gas gun, but still...  My light Ruger .30-06 is kicks noticeably harder than my shotgun with slugs or turkey loads.

Regardless of legality or quarry (as previously discussed), please avoid buckshot.  Using a load that's only suitable for close-range head shots is not an ethical hunting strategy.  00 Buck is a great home defense load, not much else.

[pd]

saboted slugs in a rifled barrel and rifled slugs in smooth barrel. I would drop the coin for a rifled barrel with a cantilever scope mount. Got one on my 870 and it flat gets it done. Have taken deer out to 167 yards with Hornady sst slugs. I run a 2x7 power scope on mine.

I disagree with a lot of the posts here.  I would not purchase a rifled barrel.

I have often hunted deer (firearms restricted zone) with a 12-gauge and slugs.  Never use "rifled slugs" in a "rifled barrel"!!!  Steelywhopper is correct.

Go to WalMart, buy a 5 round box of Remington 12-gauge rifled slugs.  About $5.  Take a shot or two in the woods, at 50-yards to find the drop (it is written on the side of the box).

I don't know how far you can shoot in your area, but anything less than 50-yards is more than lethal with a slug.  Easy peazy.  Use the gun that you have.

[lokidog]

Go with the cantilevered scope mount, you won't regret it as it will tie the scope to the barrel instead of the action.

[SeatoSummit88]

Ok great.  Trying out different options seems like a better idea than dropping $100-250 upfront, where I could possibly get away with just $50 in rounds!  More than likely we will be able to get within 100 yards of this herd. They are not hunted as hard, and luckily the area they cover isn't as large as herds i've pushed before.  There is a possibility that if we get a bad wind or its not raining, and they hear/smell us, we will move them up this notorious hill (that is exposed), which then leads to an old road with a vertical drop on the other side (so bye bye elk if they hit it), which we do not want to happen. That is when a short distance shotgun load will not help me out.  Luckily the boundry line for restricted firearm use, lies at the bottom of the hill, so we may have one of our guys posted low at the base of it with a rifle, so he can target any bulls going up!  If it ends up happening that they take off up the hill, the man posted at the bottom is a disabled hunter, he has been wheel chair bound for a while (thanks to a drunk driver), and is ready to kill! It would be really cool if he had success, even if we don't get a shot at them first day!  cant wait.  I think ive already got my pack all filled, and we still have 9 1/2 days left.  But who is counting!!??

[luvmystang67]

Rifled slugs tend to tumble out past 50 yards, but as suggested, if you think you'll be shooting under 50 yards they'll work just fine.

Cheap slugs are just that though, pretty dang cheap.  Just kind of makes your gun into a cannon.  Accuracy would be the concern, but if you test it and can make it work, then power to you.

[Blacktail Sniper]

Buckshot for head shots.

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This is a horrible advise because it is illegal. 

Special T you may have missed it, OP says he is hunting elk,  regulations calls for slugs only for elk.

Buckshot is ok for deer. 



Smooth bore use rifled slugs;  rifle barrel use sabot.

Show me. Is this a new developement?

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It is not even close to being new, it is spelled out in the 2001 regs, which are the oldest ones I could find in the on-line in the archives link below.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/search.php?Cat=Regulations%20and%20Rules

[Special T]

Goes to show that you (I) need to re read the regs for hunting each year. I WAS WRONG.

Proving again what a valuable resource HW is!

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[cjjcb]

I've taken many deer with a Mossberg 500, rifled barrel, scope and sabots. I think my longest shot was 120 yards, kind of a rainbow shot...Punches big holes though...

I can't imagine it would be any different for elk...

Neat thing is, I swap out barrels and go for spring turkey with the same weapon.

Good Luck!

[wt]

2X on the recoil. I shoot a remington 721 in 300 win mag and a h&r sinlge shot 12 gauge rifle barrel with hornady sst sabots. The 12 gauge kicks worse, and belches fire! Side note, while accuracy is good (1.75" group at 100yds), I've notice the jacket tends to separate from the lead core on most of my recovered bullets. Having said that, of the six blacktails I've shot with that combo they all either dropped and stayed down, or went down within 20 feet. I have an 870 express also and I'm thinking of getting the rifled barrel with cantilevered scope, the H&R is unimaginably heavy. It has a barrel that resembles a quad axle and a iron rod in the stock for counter weight...heavy! Best of luck!