Baiting on the chopping block

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Some of the 500 will draw their first choice and not be competing, but the odds of Bob drawing his first choice should conceivably decline. That is offset by the possibility that he's still in the running for a permit with three other choices.

But, by drawing one of his three alternate choices, that also lessens Bob's chances of getting the tag he really covets. Because then, he just used up his points and has to start all over.

[Bob33]

Some of the 500 will draw their first choice and not be competing, but the odds of Bob drawing his first choice should conceivably decline. That is offset by the possibility that he's still in the running for a permit with three other choices.

But, by drawing one of his three alternate choices, that also lessens Bob's chances of getting the tag he really covets. Because then, he just used up his points and has to start all over.

Who gave you the right to decide what he wants?

[bobcat]

The permit I "covet" is the one I can draw.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Some of the 500 will draw their first choice and not be competing, but the odds of Bob drawing his first choice should conceivably decline. That is offset by the possibility that he's still in the running for a permit with three other choices.

But, by drawing one of his three alternate choices, that also lessens Bob's chances of getting the tag he really covets. Because then, he just used up his points and has to start all over.

Who gave you the right to decide what he wants?

When did I decide what Bob wants. Bob decides that. I'm just explaining how odds work.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

The permit I "covet" is the one I can draw.

That may be true for you Bob. Some people covet very specific tags.

[bobcat]

The permit I "covet" is the one I can draw.

That may be true for you Bob. Some people covet very specific tags.

True. And what I'm trying to explain here is that decreasing the number of choices on an application isn't the simple solution that it may appear to be in improving draw odds.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Here is the reality of more choices by more people when it comes to draws.

Odds for drawing a permit example. 10 permits, 1,000 hunters.

1st example, each hunter picks 1 hunt and it's evenly divided for example. So there are 1,000 applicants making 100
applicants for each set of 10 tags. 100 hunters drawing for 10 tags means odds are 10% you'll draw your special
quality hunt or favorite cow tag.

2nd example, each hunter gets 4 choices, and again every hunt gets an equal number of interested hunters. Since each
hunter gets 4 choices, there are now 4,000 chances at drawing. divided by 10 hunts means each hunt has 400 applicants.
This drops your odds of drawing a particular hunt to 2.5%. You still have an overall chance of 10% of being drawn for
something, but your odds of drawing that one special quality tag just dropped by 75%.

3rd example, now take each of those same 10 hunts and make everybody eligible to apply for all 10 of them. Kind of like when
they divided species into categories and now there are 1000 applying for each hunt. That drops your odds to 1% to get
that one special quality tag. You would still have a 10% chance overall at drawing something.
 
So while none of these scenarios decreases or increases your overall odds of being drawn, all things being equal, it
does significantly lower your odds of being drawn for one special, particular hunt. It may not matter to some, but it
matters for those who want to cow hunt where they normally hunt for bulls or have purchased an access permit. It could
also matter if you draw a hunt where you can't purchase a permit because they are all sold out.  It also matters to
those trying to draw a specific quality hunt. It may also matter to those who want to hunt close to home.

OK for guys like Bob who only care about drawing something, but bad for guys who want to hunt a specific hunt.

[jasnt]

Baiting is a fabulous way to start a youngster of with success.  Don't limit other's freedom just because you choose not to participate.

Success maybe? But does baiting teach a kid the life long skills of actual hunting?

The main concern of baiting is the spread of desease.

This kind of comment makes me laugh every time.  So exactly who is it that decides what "actual hunting" is?  You?   

Different strokes for different folks just because you don't agree with another style of hunting doesn't make that style wrong.  Let others hunt in the style they want, lawfully of course.
Too darn many people thinking they need to tell others how and what to do these days IMHO.

[Bob33]

Some of the 500 will draw their first choice and not be competing, but the odds of Bob drawing his first choice should conceivably decline. That is offset by the possibility that he's still in the running for a permit with three other choices.

But, by drawing one of his three alternate choices, that also lessens Bob's chances of getting the tag he really covets. Because then, he just used up his points and has to start all over.

Who gave you the right to decide what he wants?

When did I decide what Bob wants. Bob decides that. I'm just explaining how odds work.

When you said "that also lessens Bob's chances of getting the tag he really covets."

[huntingbaldguy]

I can only get on board with bait proximity to roadways and trails, nothing else.  It's impossible to enforce for one, and it implies there's something wrong with giving the animals a nutritious food source in a time that animals die from starvation during winter in some areas.  I fed literally 2 to 3 dozen deer and shot one this year.  Tell me i didn't help some fawns put on some much needed weight before winter came around.  I'm still feeding them, even after my season ended with an arrow.  The entire debate is dumb imo. 

[Whitpirate]

Baiting is a fabulous way to start a youngster of with success.  Don't limit other's freedom just because you choose not to participate.

Success maybe? But does baiting teach a kid the life long skills of actual hunting?

The main concern of baiting is the spread of desease.

I'm just having a hard time trying to relate baiting to fair chase hunting. To me each method is worlds apart. Oh no here we go again

Hunters hunt.... the rest is just dick measuring.  Division is the best way for anti's to win.  Bait has its place, muzzleloaders have their place, bows, giant magnums etc.... hell even high fence has a role in allowing someone to feel tied to nature.  When you decide what everyone else needs to do then we aren't living in America anymore... and sadly more and more folks are pretty sure they are right and everyone else is wrong and needs to respect their wishes only.  Best of luck teaching your youngster how you want the chase to go... but please don't have some much hubris to tell another they are doing it wrong... if we get kids in the woods our traditions will live on past us.  Or just buy them an X-box and hope to reminisce over that game of Call of Duty you played 30 years ago with Dad.  *eyeroll*


This kind of comment makes me laugh every time.  So exactly who is it that decides what "actual hunting" is?  You?   

Different strokes for different folks just because you don't agree with another style of hunting doesn't make that style wrong.  Let others hunt in the style they want, lawfully of course.
Too darn many people thinking they need to tell others how and what to do these days IMHO.

[Bango skank]

I can only get on board with bait proximity to roadways and trails, nothing else.  It's impossible to enforce for one, and it implies there's something wrong with giving the animals a nutritious food source in a time that animals die from starvation during winter in some areas.  I fed literally 2 to 3 dozen deer and shot one this year.  Tell me i didn't help some fawns put on some much needed weight before winter came around.  I'm still feeding them, even after my season ended with an arrow.  The entire debate is dumb imo.

Im still feeding my dleer too, and ill continue to until greenup starts.

[Jonathan_S]

I put out half a ton of alfalfa bales last winter...after my seasons were long over.  I hope that option doesn't go away.

Additionally, the only baiting rules I can feature at this time would be the amount at a site

[jasnt]

Same here. I feed year round. Well over a dozen deer!
Food, minerals, water.

[fireweed]

Baiting: no new "rules" but a set of proper baiting guidelines might help educate hunters on some of the problems bad practices can create.  An education campaign.  Real messes probably could be charged with something already on the books.

Tags/Draw: I would like to be able to transfer a special tag to a youth and also expand youth to age 18 or 19.  The kids only have a couple years to be classified as youth.  People have proposed restrictions on an age that is too young to hunt, and are encouraging kids to wait until 14 to hunt, so the window of youth opportunity is small since by 16 they are "adults". With school most kids can only hunt weekends or a "sick" day anyway.  My kid at 17 has been an adult hunter for a couple years now!  With timber company permits required at age 18 and adult license/tags at 16 you can see why we are loosing hunters.   Spouse Drew a late buck tag that would have been great to transfer to one of the kids.  Opportunity at a nice late buck could have made them hunters for life.