Ethical to shoot past 400 yards at elk w/AR15 based rifle? Yes/No

[JDHasty]

When I used to hunt black bears from tree stands I did deliberately shoot them in the shoulder.  I shot a 45/70 Marlin w/350 Hornaday RN and that did not mess up much meat. 

I did not always shoot for the shoulder, but one day I came up on a black bear at twenty yards and shot it straight through the heart with that 45/70 and the bear took off, ran thirty yards down a trail, made a hard right hand turn and went fifty yards down another trail losing blood by the bucket.  Then I lost the trail and stood there wondering WTHeck.  I was standing by a five-foot diameter deadfall and when I looked on the other side the blood was there and the bear's butt was standing 40 yards away, in the middle of a trail not moving a muscle.  The bear had made a hard right hand turn and gone through a hole under the tree that you would have a hard time getting a basket ball through and died with leaves and crap pushed up in front of it's nose.  It was the darnedest thing I had seen and as I came around that bear with a long piece of a tree branch held in my left hand against the fore end of my gun and poked him in the eye it hit me that that bear could have killed me before it died if it had come up the trail I was on.  Then I pushed it over and started working on it.  After that I started shooting them through a shoulder and into the chest.  It worked for me.  I had the bear down where I could go get a wheel barrel and didn't have to work my butt off and get cut to ribbons getting him back out of the back berries like my friends frequently had to do. 

[Biggerhammer]

We aren't taking about forest rats (Bears).

[coachcw]

I had a elk try and charge me after I stuck it with a  arrow ? Look Squirl  !

[JDHasty]

I would think, I may be going out on a limb here. that a .30 Cal 230gr OTM/VLD @ 2850 would totally juice a Elk shoulder and both lungs at ranges waaaaaaaaaay out there. I would have to give the arm chair, Internet super hunt Rangers the appropriate time to GOOGLE it thoroughly.

The sectional density of that bullet is pretty high.  You won't get an argument from me on that assessment.  The momentum would carry it through the shoulder sending secondary projectiles through the lungs at that speed. 

[Buckhunter24]

When I used to hunt black bears from tree stands I did deliberately shoot them in the shoulder.  I shot a 45/70 Marlin w/350 Hornaday RN and that did not mess up much meat. 

I did not always shoot for the shoulder, but one day I came up on a black bear at twenty yards and shot it straight through the heart with that 45/70 and the bear took off, ran thirty yards down a trail, made a hard right hand turn and went fifty yards down another trail loosing blood by the bucket.  Then I lost the trail and stood there wondering WTHeck.  I was standing by a five-foot diameter deadfall and when I looked on the other side the blood was there and the bear's butt was standing 40 yards away, in the middle of a trail not moving a muscle.  The bear had made a hard right hand turn and gone through a hole under the tree that you would have a hard time getting a basket ball through and died with leaves and crap pushed up in front of it's nose.  It was the darndest thing I had seen and as I came around that bear with a long piece of a tree branch held in my left hand against the fore end of my gun and poked him in the eye it hit me that that bear could have killed me before it died if it had come up the trail I was on.  Then I pushed it over and started working on it.  After that I started shooting them through a shoulder and into the chest.  It worked for me.  I had the bear down where I could go get a wheel barrel and didn't have to work my butt off and get cut to ribbons getting him back out of the back berries like my friends frequently had to do.

I guess it just comes down to what the shooter is comfortable with.

[JDHasty]

We aren't taking about forest rats (Bears).

I was just saying that I have made a conscious decision to shoot an animal in the shoulder and had my reasons for doing so.  I liked to be able to walk a half mile to my vehicle and bring my wheel barrel right up next to them and then load them up and walk them back to the vehicle. 

[bobcat]

Ten inches behind the shoulder mid body with a vld from a .243 , or any  6.5 or 308 will flat destroy that elks lungs ....... same spot with a Barnes x out of my 30/378  just makes a pencil hole  due  to the extreme hi volocitys.  BOBCAT YOUR  vld statement is pretty ignorant  from a performance start point .

Actually your statement about the pencil hole with the Barnes due to the high velocity is ignorant. So what you're saying is that if you slowed the bullet down it would expand properly. That's wrong. Higher velocity will only cause it to expand more, not less.

[coachcw]

I knew a guy that  carried a hole box of ammo in the field      ...... heck with a AR you can Cary it in the clip. Plus if you take unethical shots you get to shoot more 

[mountainman]

Now this is getting silly..from both sides lol! 11 pages and you guys still don't have it figured out yet?

[Biggerhammer]

Ten inches behind the shoulder mid body with a vld from a .243 , or any  6.5 or 308 will flat destroy that elks lungs ....... same spot with a Barnes x out of my 30/378  just makes a pencil hole  due  to the extreme hi volocitys.  BOBCAT YOUR  vld statement is pretty ignorant  from a performance start point .

Actually your statement about the pencil hole with the Barnes due to the high velocity is ignorant. So what you're saying is that if you slowed the bullet down it would expand properly. That's wrong. Higher velocity will only cause it to expand more, not less.

You are clueless! I have persenaly watched a Mulie buck shot at 40 yards with a .338 Win Mag and a Barnes bullet. The buck hopped and trotted off to 100 yards and looked back. I put a 180gr Ballistic Tip from a 300 Weatherby magnum right were the neck meets the head. The hit was spectacular and messy. The .338 Barnes bullet combo went through him like butter. Pin holed him, you could hardly tell the entrance from the exit and very little blood shot. Straight through.

[Buckhunter24]

We aren't taking about forest rats (Bears).

I was just saying that I have made a conscious decision to shoot an animal in the shoulder and had my reasons for doing so.  I liked to be able to walk a half mile to my vehicle and bring my wheel barrel right up next to them and then load them up and walk them back to the vehicle.

Shooting bears through the shoulders I have heard of. I honestly have never heard of shooting an elk through the shoulder on purpose. I would say this is not a good idea. I would like to hear an explanation for why this is ethical. I don't care if it makes it easier to pack out.

[coachcw]

Ten inches behind the shoulder mid body with a vld from a .243 , or any  6.5 or 308 will flat destroy that elks lungs ....... same spot with a Barnes x out of my 30/378  just makes a pencil hole  due  to the extreme hi volocitys.  BOBCAT YOUR  vld statement is pretty ignorant  from a performance start point .

Actually your statement about the pencil hole with the Barnes due to the high velocity is ignorant. So what you're saying is that if you slowed the bullet down it would expand properly. That's wrong. Higher velocity will only cause it to expand more, not less.

wrong a Barnes x out of a super magnum 7mm, 300 etc.  Inside of 200 will punch right threw I have seen it more than once expecially on deer blows right threw them  partition nosler will  do the same  at close range . Now you shoot that same animal with a 308 and a Barnes x and you will be happy. Speakicng only from real world experiance though bob.

[bobcat]

Ten inches behind the shoulder mid body with a vld from a .243 , or any  6.5 or 308 will flat destroy that elks lungs ....... same spot with a Barnes x out of my 30/378  just makes a pencil hole  due  to the extreme hi volocitys.  BOBCAT YOUR  vld statement is pretty ignorant  from a performance start point .

Actually your statement about the pencil hole with the Barnes due to the high velocity is ignorant. So what you're saying is that if you slowed the bullet down it would expand properly. That's wrong. Higher velocity will only cause it to expand more, not less.

You are clueless! I have persenaly watched a Mulie buck shot at 40 yards with a .338 Win Mag and a Barnes bullet. The buck hopped and trotted off to 100 yards and looked back. I put a 180gr Ballistic Tip from a 300 Weatherby magnum right were the neck meets the head. The hit was spectacular and messy. The .338 Barnes bullet combo went through him like butter. Pin holed him, you could hardly tell the entrance from the exit and very little blood shot. Straight through.

No, apparently it's you who's clueless.

So you're saying that 338 Barnes bullet that didn't expand at 40 yards would have expanded just fine at 400 after it had slowed down some? 

[bobcat]

Ten inches behind the shoulder mid body with a vld from a .243 , or any  6.5 or 308 will flat destroy that elks lungs ....... same spot with a Barnes x out of my 30/378  just makes a pencil hole  due  to the extreme hi volocitys.  BOBCAT YOUR  vld statement is pretty ignorant  from a performance start point .

Actually your statement about the pencil hole with the Barnes due to the high velocity is ignorant. So what you're saying is that if you slowed the bullet down it would expand properly. That's wrong. Higher velocity will only cause it to expand more, not less.

wrong a Barnes x out of a super magnum 7mm, 300 etc.  Inside of 200 will punch right threw I have seen it more than once expecially on deer blows right threw them  portion nosler will  do the same  at close range . Now you shoot that same animal with a 308 and a Barnes x and you will be happy. Speaking only from real world experiance though bob.

I don't doubt your experience but I don't believe the same bullet would have expanded better if it had been moving slower.

[Karl Blanchard]

Now this is getting silly..from both sides lol! 11 pages and you guys still don't have it figured out yet?

Of course it's redicilous!  The whole premise of this thread is redicilous.   The only reason I'm still here is its impressively entertaining to see all the angles the OP continues to come up with to try and justify his OPINION.  It's great fun