Blue Dot for Reduced Rifle Loads

[bobcat]

I'm wondering if anyone here has ever used Blue Dot for reduced loads. I've been reading about it for years but have never tried it.

Just as an example, I've seen where it can be used in the 7/08 with 16 to 22 grains and a 120 grain bullet. The 22 grain load is running at 2400 feet per second. That should be a great deer load for up to 200 yards.

Here's a post from 24 Hour Campfire with some data from a guy who has done extensive testing. If you Google "blue dot reduced loads" you'll find a lot more posts by him, mostly on the 24 Hour and Accurate Reloading forums. I really wish he would put together a book. He goes by Seafire.

This is work done on the 7mm Mauser. it will give a close to potential performance on the 7/08.. the difference is that the 7/08 holds 2 grains less powder for what is the max potential..

the 7/08 is limited to 22 grains max and the 7 x 57 is limited to 24 grains...

however a load of say 18 grains of Blue Dot in one should yield the same velocity in the other, with the same bullet weight...

it is important to work up.. as with any powder...don't start at the max... don't exceed the data I have listed... and it proved safe in my rifles is all I can vouche for...

when loading, charge and then seat a bullet before going onto the next one.. this will eliminate the chance of an accidental double charge...

you can easily go down to 10 grains of powder, but this info is for what I consider the useful hunting velocities...

Blue Dot Range Report: 7 x 57 Mauser

Bullet: 100 grain Sierra Hollow Point

Case: Remington, New

Primer: CCI Large Rifle

OAL: 76.25 mm

Max Capacity: 40.5 grains of Blue Dot

40%: 16.2 grains
60%: 24.3 grains

Tested: 16 to 24 grains

Rifle Used: Ruger 77 Mk 2, 22 inch factory barrel, Sporter Weight

Velocity Results:

16 grains: 2057 fps
17 grains: 2190 fps
18 grains: 2263 fps
19 grains: 2310 fps
20 grains: 2390 fps

21 grains: 2468 fps
22 grains: 2530 fps
23 grains: 2574 fps
24 grains: 2687 fps

Notes:
1.All cases extracted very easily
2.24 grains was fine, representing the 60% mark. Increases can be made, but I recommend stopping there.
3.The rifle is long throated so the bullets were seated out to take advantage of that fact. If your rifle is not long throated work up to that point.
4.After 10 shots, in short succession, the barrel heat was minimal.
5.This load was tested at the request of someone who was looking to use this load for a Ground Hog load.


Blue Dot Range Report: 7 x 57

Bullet: 120 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip, Sectional Density: .213

Primer: Winchester Large Pistol

Case: Remington, 7 x 57, second time used.

OAL: 79.30 mm

Rifle Used: Ruger 77 Mk 2, 22 inch barrel.

Results:

16 grs: 1884 fps
17 grs: 2029 fps
18 grs: NO Reading, sorry
19 grs: 2187 fps
20 grs: 2275 fps

21 grs: 2327 fps
22 grs: 2406 fps
23 grs: 2466 fps
24 grs: 2529 fps

Notes:
1.16 grain load was like the recoil of my 223 with Blue Dot loads. According to the Nosler reload manual�s trajectory chart, this would make a decent 150 yd deer load.
2.With the 20 grain load, you get into a 200 yd load for deer. 3.5 inches high at 100 yds will be dead on at 200 yds.
3.The 22 thru 24 grain loads, are definitely good deer medicine. 3.5 inches high at 100 yds, should make it a decent 250 yd load.
4.Nosler Ballistic Tip. I just like this bullet for this type of application, as it does a good job opening up and penetrating at the lower velocities.
5.All cases extracted easily, and overall, had no powder residue around the necks at all, like with some the 100 grain Sierra Hollow Point loads. ( exception was the 16 grain load).

I really liked this bullet and caliber combo for deer. I wouldn�t hesitate to use it on some of the bigger Upper Midwest Whitetails I use to hunt in Minnesota and Wisconsin.


Blue Dot Range Report

Caliber: 7 x 57

Rifle Used: Ruger 77 Mk 2, 22 inch barrel

Case: Remington, 3rd time used

Primer: Winchester Large Pistol

Bullet: 140 grain Remington SP

O.A.L.: 77.50 mm

Case Max Capacity: 40.5 grains of Blue Dot

Date: May 1, 2004

Tested; 40 to 60 % of max capacity


Results:

16 grs: 1731 fps
17 grs: 1856 fps
18 grs: 1912 fps
19 grs: 1958 fps
20 grs: 2051 fps

21 grs: 2146 fps
22 grs: 2194 fps
23 grs: 2256 fps
24 grs: 2335 fps.


Notes:
1.All cases extracted with ease.
2. NO excess pressure signs on primers
3. Recoil was very mild and tolerable for youths or women.
4. From 20 grains to 24 grains would be a good deer load in my opinion
5. 20 grains would indicate a 150 to 175 yd point blank range for deer
6. 23 to 24 grains would be indicated with a point blank range of 200 yds to 240 yds , in my opinion.
7.Nosler Ballistic Tip, Hornady 139 grain SP, and Remington 140 SP would all make very effective deer bullets in the ranges listed here.

[Bob33]

I don't have any experience with that powder; I've always considered H4895 the standard bearer for reduced loads.

Post up what you learn.

[bobcat]

Seafire says the 4895 reduced loads are very inaccurate in comparison to the Blue Dot loads. Also, the Blue Dot loads are cleaner and quieter.

[bobcat]

Here's a post with more general information:

blue dot is not position sensitive in a rifle case.. I have more detailed stuff, but I guess the best way is just to keep it simple.. especially considering this application...

your max parameters on a 7/08, or any 308 based cartridge, the max charge is 22.5 grains of Blue Dot... regardless of bullet weight... one should still work up to this amount to be safe...

on the low end, you can safely start at 10 grains of Blue Dot without getting a stuck bullet in the barrel..use either a large rifle or large pistol primer.. it really doesn't matter...

there are a lot of good bullets to start out with, particularly if they are going to be used for target work to get him use to them... from 100 grains, 110s, 115s, 120s, 130s and 139/140...playing with the 100 to 115 grainers is a lot of fun shooting for me... and them being varmint bullets, they can take a lot bigger head of game than you'd give them credit for...especially an antelope sized deer...

Accuracy will be a lot better than those H 4895 loads... those loads are only accurate if you can live with 5 inch groups and a lot of muzzle blast and a real loud retort when shot..

the ONLY down side to Blue Dot is load technique... you don't want to double charge a load accidently... the way around that is to charge a case and then seat the bullet before proceeding to the next round... that is the safest and the way I recommend doing it, especially as that is the way I load mine...

in our sue happy world, I can only vouche that they have proven safe in my rifles...but both the young man and yourself will enjoy shooting them... at 10 grains for starters the old 7/08 will recoil like a 22 mag...even at 22.5 grains its recoil will be greater than 50% reduced...especially with the lighter bullet weights...

good luck..

[jasnt]

I've heard of this too. Haven't tried it cause I haven't needed to but I may try it for fun some day. I have plenty of blue dot. Works good for my 44 and shoty

[CP]

I’ve used it for .44 mag loads and back in the day, magnum 12g loads – it’s slow burning so it surprises me that someone would use it for reduced loads for a light bullet.  I’d expect it would not burn completely.


Blue dot like all the Dot powders does not meter well in small amounts.  I suggest that you use a dipper or measure each load.

[bobcat]

It's a very fast burning powder for rifle cartridges. It's only considered slow as shotgun powder.

[jasnt]

It's a very fast burning powder for rifle cartridges. It's only considered slow as shotgun powder.

And it meters very well for anything over 10gr in my powder thrower

[fly-by]

I used it in a Savage Striker pistol to get fuller burn in a short barrel.  It was very consistent, with ES in the single digits.

[packmule]

I've had good luck with reduced loads in 308 and 30-06 rifles using Green Dot and 100 grain plinker bullets.

[bobcat]

I've had good luck with reduced loads in 308 and 30-06 rifles using Green Dot and 100 grain plinker bullets.

Were you able to find any published data to go by?

[packmule]

I used data for Lyman cast bullets.  Those are fun, cheap loads.

[Blacklab]

I mainly use B-dot for pistols 357m 44m 45acp. One load for a 44 Ruger carbine which was the same load for the pistol.

[JLS]

Seafire says the 4895 reduced loads are very inaccurate in comparison to the Blue Dot loads. Also, the Blue Dot loads are cleaner and quieter.

I guess that depends on how much you are reducing them.  I have loaded reduced 30-06 loads with H4895 that are sub MOA, at approximately 2200 fps with 130 grain bullets.

I also do a lot of plinker loads with 100 grain bullets over 12 grains of Unique.  There isn't much in the way of published data that I could find, just stuff from folks that have done it.  I started at 11 grains, and found it to be very low pressure.  I haven't seen much difference between 11-13 grains of Unique in terms of accuracy.  It is good for about 2 MOA.  Noise is along the lines of 22 magnum.

[JLS]

I know this is a standard disclaimer, but be VERY careful when doing these loads as it would be extremely easy to double charge a powder load.  When doing these, I add the powder and then seat the bullet immediately.

[AWS]

There is a great article on light loads for small calibers using Blue Dot and 800x on the Calhoun Bullet site, called "To Bee or 223, is that the question" it covers other cartridges than the 223.  I use the 800x loads in my 222 Rem, 22-204, 5.6x50R Mag.

Here's a link to the article page just scroll down to it.

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/articles.php

[yorketransport]

Blue Dot is one of those powders that I just don't trust. I've played with it a bit and I've had some unpredictable results like dramatic pressure swings and unpredictable velocities. I would use a filler in the case to hold the powder closer to the primer to prevent powder detonation in stead of burn.

You could try using Trail Boss. That would get your velocities in the 1500 fps range though so it may not work for what you're going for.