Sierra Match Kings (SMK's) for Deer Hunting

[jackelope]

Who wants lead fragments throughout all the meat? Not me. I've never used these bullets but from what I read in this thread, I know I never will. So many good bullets out there, why use one with questionable performance?

Don't you shoot Berger's Bobcat?  Basically similar performance.  I've read all this same stuff about Berger bullets too.  Somehow they continue to kill animals.  Lots of em!

Yes, I've used 140 grain .277 Bergers on my bighorn sheep and two antelope and four deer in Wyoming. I decided to use them for their accuracy and high BC. No problems with lack of penetration or excessive meat loss.

I know that Berger recommends some of their "match" or VLD bullets for hunting applications. 

According to Doubleliung:  "The SMK are very effective killers, and cause excessive damage due to fragmenting.  A shot to a quarter will pretty well destroy the quarter, a broadside shot to the ribs will have a BIG exit and you may find jacket fragments and bits of lead almost anywhere in the animal."   This is almost verbatim what I was told by the Sierra tech I spoke with this morning.

So don't shoot em in the shoulder   I refuse to believe that people should compensate for poor marksmanship by up sizing calibers or thinking a certain bullet will solve all the world's problems.  Shoot em in the ribs and go collect your animal.  If you can't put the bullet where you want it, you shouldn't be taking the shot

I just bought myself a sweet new .458 Lott. Can't wait to use it on the high hunt this year.


What?
 

[BULLBLASTER]

Who wants lead fragments throughout all the meat? Not me. I've never used these bullets but from what I read in this thread, I know I never will. So many good bullets out there, why use one with questionable performance?

Don't you shoot Berger's Bobcat?  Basically similar performance.  I've read all this same stuff about Berger bullets too.  Somehow they continue to kill animals.  Lots of em!

Yes, I've used 140 grain .277 Bergers on my bighorn sheep and two antelope and four deer in Wyoming. I decided to use them for their accuracy and high BC. No problems with lack of penetration or excessive meat loss.

I know that Berger recommends some of their "match" or VLD bullets for hunting applications. 

According to Doubleliung:  "The SMK are very effective killers, and cause excessive damage due to fragmenting.  A shot to a quarter will pretty well destroy the quarter, a broadside shot to the ribs will have a BIG exit and you may find jacket fragments and bits of lead almost anywhere in the animal."   This is almost verbatim what I was told by the Sierra tech I spoke with this morning.

So don't shoot em in the shoulder   I refuse to believe that people should compensate for poor marksmanship by up sizing calibers or thinking a certain bullet will solve all the world's problems.  Shoot em in the ribs and go collect your animal.  If you can't put the bullet where you want it, you shouldn't be taking the shot

I just bought myself a sweet new .458 Lott. Can't wait to use it on the high hunt this year.


What?
 

Do they make match kings for it?

[Jonathan_S]

Shoot em in the ribs and go collect your animal.

  pretty simple 

[BULLBLASTER]

Shoot em in the ribs and go collect your animal.

  pretty simple 

[jackelope]

I have a box of these I'm going to load for my .25-06. Not sure what they're considered, other than older than dirt.

[JDHasty]

I'm not sure I buy the lead fragments all throughout the animal. My fiancé used to work for an environmental testing company and we were curious so after her shooting a deer with a Berger bullet I bagged up some of the bloodshot meat from the wound, a piece of the liver, and another random piece of clean meat from the animal in separate bags and sent to work with her. None of the samples including the one from the wound had any detectable lead levels. Or any other bad stuff for that matter.
The meat was actually cleaner than the city water from a heavy metals standpoint.

I'll continue to use match target bullets as long as they shoot well and perform as I expect.  my experience is with bergers and not match kings but they are close enough to one another that I would expect similar results.

Direct quote from your post @ 9:47 "The Berger target bullets have a thicker jacket."

I am curious what methodology allows a person to extend the likelihood of similar bullet performance to a bullet recognized as having totally dissimilar construction?   

[BULLBLASTER]

I'm not sure I buy the lead fragments all throughout the animal. My fiancé used to work for an environmental testing company and we were curious so after her shooting a deer with a Berger bullet I bagged up some of the bloodshot meat from the wound, a piece of the liver, and another random piece of clean meat from the animal in separate bags and sent to work with her. None of the samples including the one from the wound had any detectable lead levels. Or any other bad stuff for that matter.
The meat was actually cleaner than the city water from a heavy metals standpoint.

I'll continue to use match target bullets as long as they shoot well and perform as I expect.  my experience is with bergers and not match kings but they are close enough to one another that I would expect similar results.

Direct quote from your post @ 9:47 "The Berger target bullets have a thicker jacket."

I am curious what methodology allows a person to extend the likelihood of similar bullet performance to a bullet recognized as having totally dissimilar construction?   

a thicker jacket than the Berger hunting bullets.
I have used both the Berger hunting and target bullets to take game and am please with performance of both.

Since my entire post was referring to the Berger bullets, one would assume that the reader would understand and comprehend that  I was comparing the Berger target and hunting bullets.

[JDHasty]

I'm not sure I buy the lead fragments all throughout the animal. My fiancé used to work for an environmental testing company and we were curious so after her shooting a deer with a Berger bullet I bagged up some of the bloodshot meat from the wound, a piece of the liver, and another random piece of clean meat from the animal in separate bags and sent to work with her. None of the samples including the one from the wound had any detectable lead levels. Or any other bad stuff for that matter.
The meat was actually cleaner than the city water from a heavy metals standpoint.

I'll continue to use match target bullets as long as they shoot well and perform as I expect.  my experience is with bergers and not match kings but they are close enough to one another that I would expect similar results.

I am curious what methodology allows a person to extend the likelihood of similar bullet performance to a bullet recognized as having totally dissimilar construction?   

a thicker jacket than the Berger hunting bullets.
I have used both the Berger hunting and target bullets to take game and am please with performance of both.

Since my entire post was referring to the Berger bullets, one would assume that the reader would understand and comprehend that  I was comparing the Berger target and hunting bullets.

Direct quote form your post @ 9:45 "my experience is with bergers and not match kings but they are close enough to one another that I would expect similar results."

You state that Berger match target bullets have thicker jackets, Sierra states that SMK bullets have very thin jackets, with an emphasis on very.   Being that there is an accepted positive correlation between jacket thickness and a bullet's structural integrity, my question, as an engineer is, what would lead you to expect that these two bullets would yield similar results? 

[Karl Blanchard]

He didn't state that the berger target had a thicker jacket than the smk's.  He said the target vld had a thicker jacket than the hunting vld

If the hunting vld has a thinner jacket, I would assume it would be closer to the SMK than the target vld

[BULLBLASTER]

Oh wow.

Here we go again...

The Berger hunting bullets have a thinner jacket than the Berger target bullets.

When comparing A thin jacket cup and core bullet ( Berger hunting) with a thin jacket cup and core bullet (match King) the assumption can be made that they will behave similarly. Especially since the very slightly thicker jacket cup and core ( Berger target) behaves in a very similar manner. 

I am not sure how easier to explain it in a way that you may understand. 

Again my comment of thicker jacket was in comparison to the Berger hunting bullet. You need to comprehend what my posts are saying. 

It is widely known that the matchking and Berger are of very similar construction.

[jackelope]

He didn't state that the berger target had a thicker jacket than the smk's.  He said the target vld had a thicker jacket than the hunting vld

If the hunting vld has a thinner jacket, I would assume it would be closer to the SMK than the target vld

Careful. This is a discussion/debate between 2 engineers. This could get a little more nuts.

[jackelope]

See what I mean??

[Jonathan_S]

He didn't state that the berger target had a thicker jacket than the smk's.  He said the target vld had a thicker jacket than the hunting vld

If the hunting vld has a thinner jacket, I would assume it would be closer to the SMK than the target vld

Careful. This is a discussion/debate between 2 engineers. This could get a little more nuts.

Let's hear more about this .458 Lott

[BULLBLASTER]

He didn't state that the berger target had a thicker jacket than the smk's.  He said the target vld had a thicker jacket than the hunting vld

If the hunting vld has a thinner jacket, I would assume it would be closer to the SMK than the target vld

Careful. This is a discussion/debate between 2 engineers. This could get a little more nuts.

Are you sure about that? My standing as an engineer has already been questioned once in this thread by the other engineer... I'm not sure I count anymore. 

[jackelope]

He didn't state that the berger target had a thicker jacket than the smk's.  He said the target vld had a thicker jacket than the hunting vld

If the hunting vld has a thinner jacket, I would assume it would be closer to the SMK than the target vld

Careful. This is a discussion/debate between 2 engineers. This could get a little more nuts.

Are you sure about that? My standing as an engineer has already been questioned once in this thread by the other engineer... I'm not sure I count anymore. 

I deal with engineers every day. I wouldn't expect anything less.