Sierra Match Kings (SMK's) for Deer Hunting

[actionshooter]

 I've shot 2 muleys with 175 SMKs out of a .308, both deer ended up dead so I suppose the bullets worked but it wasn't best performance I have ever seen. Total disintegrated, I'll keep using them for matches, but for hunting I won't use them anymore.
 My VLD hunting bullets perform WAY better.

[jmscon]

So if you have a bullet that goes through and through like a pencil, doesn't hit a vital organ: Just have a wounded animal that can travel a long distance. If you have a bullet that fragments: Lots of wasted / contaminated meat. Why not find something that expands well and has good weight retention that's more suitable for hunting big game? 

[JDHasty]

So if you have a bullet that goes through and through like a pencil, doesn't hit a vital organ: Just have a wounded animal that can travel a long distance. If you have a bullet that fragments: Lots of wasted / contaminated meat. Why not find something that expands well and has good weight retention that's more suitable for hunting big game? 

I was on the phone w/Sierra regarding another matter and the tech and I both had the luxury of time available to take an opportunity to discuss this topic. 

Yes there is a narrow window in which the SMK does perform well on game.   

-The primary failure mode is the hollow point collapsing in on itself and the bullet acts like a full patch (FMJ) bullet and goes through "like a pencil."  When individuals are considering the SMK for big game hunting it is frequently the case that they are looking to maximize accuracy and minimize trajectory and wind drift, thereby increasing their effective range on thin skinned medium game such as deer and pronghorn.   When shots are taken at the distances at which velocity has fallen off and the bullet hits an animal in the chest the EXPECTED result is this type of failure.

-The second failure mode is total fragmentation when impact is at a velocity is such that it is outside the optimal window on the high side.   This bullet has a very thin jacket and it fragments, which is probably consistent w/"explodes," on impact w/soft tissue which frequently results in less than desired, and many times inadequate penetration.  He offered that although some individuals recognize this as spectacular bullet performance that Sierra does not recognize that as such.  It may look spectacular and the result may be instantaneous death, but they still recognize that event as "bullet failure" when the bullet totally fragments upon impact w soft tissue.   

-The third failure mode is total fragmentation and failure to penetrate to the vitals if a bullet impacts heavy bone. 

This bullet has been around a long time and Sierra has a pretty good understanding of what it's limitations are when it comes to use as a big game bullet.  They are aware of "spectacular results," e.g they have seen them themselves and they also accept what is reported to them as genuine, but given their experience they do not feel that this is a good bullet for big game hunting applications.     

 

   

[Karl Blanchard]

When I worked in Wyoming we used Sierra 168gr .308 MK factory ammo in our work rifles.  I estimate I've shot 80-100 injured and depredating deer and pronghorn myself, and have discussed their use extensively with my coworkers doing same, at ranges from 5 to 475 yards.  They are very effective killers, and cause excessive damage due to fragmenting.  A shot to a quarter will pretty well destroy the quarter, a broadside shot to the ribs will have a BIG exit and you may find jacket fragments and bits of lead almost anywhere in the animal.  They are impressive for disabling an animal to the point it cannot flee, a finisher is often necessary to kill the animal quickly and humanely if hit in a quarter.  I once shot a coyote at 150 yards, facing me, hit in the throat and through the spine, the exit was a fist-sized hole - to give an idea of how explosive they are.   

Get out of here with your real world nonsense Beau!

[bobcat]

Who wants lead fragments throughout all the meat? Not me. I've never used these bullets but from what I read in this thread, I know I never will. So many good bullets out there, why use one with questionable performance?

[Karl Blanchard]

Who wants lead fragments throughout all the meat? Not me. I've never used these bullets but from what I read in this thread, I know I never will. So many good bullets out there, why use one with questionable performance?

Don't you shoot Berger's Bobcat?  Basically similar performance.  I've read all this same stuff about Berger bullets too.  Somehow they continue to kill animals.  Lots of em! 

[bobcat]

Who wants lead fragments throughout all the meat? Not me. I've never used these bullets but from what I read in this thread, I know I never will. So many good bullets out there, why use one with questionable performance?

Don't you shoot Berger's Bobcat?  Basically similar performance.  I've read all this same stuff about Berger bullets too.  Somehow they continue to kill animals.  Lots of em!

Yes, I've used 140 grain .277 Bergers on my bighorn sheep and two antelope and four deer in Wyoming. I decided to use them for their accuracy and high BC. No problems with lack of penetration or excessive meat loss.

[Karl Blanchard]

Who wants lead fragments throughout all the meat? Not me. I've never used these bullets but from what I read in this thread, I know I never will. So many good bullets out there, why use one with questionable performance?

Don't you shoot Berger's Bobcat?  Basically similar performance.  I've read all this same stuff about Berger bullets too.  Somehow they continue to kill animals.  Lots of em!

Yes, I've used 140 grain .277 Bergers on my bighorn sheep and two antelope and four deer in Wyoming. I decided to use them for their accuracy and high BC. No problems with lack of penetration or excessive meat loss.

  Same reasons lots of guys shoot the match kings......

[bobcat]

Okay, I guess the difference being Sierra doesn't recommend the SMK for hunting while Berger does recommend their VLD. 

So I have to ask, why not use the Sierra Game King? I've used them in the past and they're accurate with a high BC, and work well on deer.

[JDHasty]

Who wants lead fragments throughout all the meat? Not me. I've never used these bullets but from what I read in this thread, I know I never will. So many good bullets out there, why use one with questionable performance?

Don't you shoot Berger's Bobcat?  Basically similar performance.  I've read all this same stuff about Berger bullets too.  Somehow they continue to kill animals.  Lots of em!

Yes, I've used 140 grain .277 Bergers on my bighorn sheep and two antelope and four deer in Wyoming. I decided to use them for their accuracy and high BC. No problems with lack of penetration or excessive meat loss.

I know that Berger recommends some of their "match" or VLD bullets for hunting applications. 

According to Doubleliung:  "The SMK are very effective killers, and cause excessive damage due to fragmenting.  A shot to a quarter will pretty well destroy the quarter, a broadside shot to the ribs will have a BIG exit and you may find jacket fragments and bits of lead almost anywhere in the animal."   This is almost verbatim what I was told by the Sierra tech I spoke with this morning.   

[BULLBLASTER]

I'm not sure I buy the lead fragments all throughout the animal. My fiancé used to work for an environmental testing company and we were curious so after her shooting a deer with a Berger bullet I bagged up some of the bloodshot meat from the wound, a piece of the liver, and another random piece of clean meat from the animal in separate bags and sent to work with her. None of the samples including the one from the wound had any detectable lead levels. Or any other bad stuff for that matter.
The meat was actually cleaner than the city water from a heavy metals standpoint.

I'll continue to use match target bullets as long as they shoot well and perform as I expect.  my experience is with bergers and not match kings but they are close enough to one another that I would expect similar results.

[Karl Blanchard]

Who wants lead fragments throughout all the meat? Not me. I've never used these bullets but from what I read in this thread, I know I never will. So many good bullets out there, why use one with questionable performance?

Don't you shoot Berger's Bobcat?  Basically similar performance.  I've read all this same stuff about Berger bullets too.  Somehow they continue to kill animals.  Lots of em!

Yes, I've used 140 grain .277 Bergers on my bighorn sheep and two antelope and four deer in Wyoming. I decided to use them for their accuracy and high BC. No problems with lack of penetration or excessive meat loss.

I know that Berger recommends some of their "match" or VLD bullets for hunting applications. 

According to Doubleliung:  "The SMK are very effective killers, and cause excessive damage due to fragmenting.  A shot to a quarter will pretty well destroy the quarter, a broadside shot to the ribs will have a BIG exit and you may find jacket fragments and bits of lead almost anywhere in the animal."   This is almost verbatim what I was told by the Sierra tech I spoke with this morning.

So don't shoot em in the shoulder   I refuse to believe that people should compensate for poor marksmanship by up sizing calibers or thinking a certain bullet will solve all the world's problems.  Shoot em in the ribs and go collect your animal.  If you can't put the bullet where you want it, you shouldn't be taking the shot

[BULLBLASTER]

Have you read how the Berger hunting vld bullets were developed? They were originally a match bullet and it was found out that they do exceptionally well as a hunting bullet with great terminal performance. The Berger target bullets have a thicker jacket. This was because batch shooters were having issues with the core of bullets melting during the shot with the original Berger match (labeled as hunting now) bullets. They made the jacket thicker to keep from melting the core in matches.

[BULLBLASTER]

http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/match-grade-berger-hunting-vld-history-1.php

Even Berger said their bullets don't work for hunting when they started. It wasn't until people started using them that Berger then changed their mind.


Goes to show we should always take what we are told on packaging and manufacturer recommendations as gospel... 

[jay.sharkbait]

For the love of God please, someone make this stop.