Descendants of the first settlers reveal the truth about returning wolves to Yel

[jackelope]

Edit:  For the record, I don't believe Hoppe's original intent was to infect the bighorn sheep herd.  I fully believe his original intent was to create a wolf conflict, which it did, and which blew up bigger than he anticipated.  I believe that the bighorn sheep were just collateral damage incident to his primary agenda.  His willful indifference and refusal to work with WSF (who BTW covers the cost of these projects) is what I find appalling.

You really should have said that in the first place! But I still think you may be wrong because if Hoppe was trying to bait the wolves or if he didn't care about the wild sheep coming close, why would he put bells on his sheep? It seems he wanted wildlife to avoid his sheep by putting bells on them, we do that with our hounds to try and deter wolves and it seems to work most of the time. Either way, I really doubt Hoppe intended for the sheep to get sick and die if in fact that was caused by his sheep. I honestly don't see any mention in the articles of what the WSF proposed and what Hoppe refused to do? I've got a lot of friends who are ranchers, most have a real concern for the land and the wildlife and take better care of the land and wildlife than what agencies do with our public lands.

http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/news/wildlife/bighorn-sheep-mingle-with-gardiner-domestic-sheep/article_67966a20-5baf-11e3-a220-0019bb2963f4.html

Hurley, a Wyoming Game and Fish bighorn biologist for 30 years, said the ram was initially startled by the sound of the bells on Hoppe’s sheep. But the urges of the breeding season caused the ram to get within about 6 feet of the sheep.

http://fwp.mt.gov/news/newsReleases/fishAndWildlife/nr_0713.html

In the Gardiner area, bighorn sheep have experienced a small number of pneumonia cases each of the last few years, but not to this extent.

It is not possible to detect the exact source of this pneumonia outbreak.

Pneumonia outbreaks have occurred in bighorn sheep populations with no known contact with domestic sheep (or goats). However, research has shown bacteria can be transmitted from healthy domestic sheep (or goats) to bighorn sheep, causing pneumonia in the wild sheep. There are currently domestic sheep flocks in the area.

Hopefully you're not implying that domestic sheep are not the cause of all these pneumonia outbreaks in the wild sheep?  I'm pretty sure you're not implying that, but just wanted to make sure. We lost a few entire herds of bighorns in Washington because they were infected by domestic sheep. The Hell's Canyon herd has been compromised. I'm sure there are lots of others.

[JLS]

Edit:  For the record, I don't believe Hoppe's original intent was to infect the bighorn sheep herd.  I fully believe his original intent was to create a wolf conflict, which it did, and which blew up bigger than he anticipated.  I believe that the bighorn sheep were just collateral damage incident to his primary agenda.  His willful indifference and refusal to work with WSF (who BTW covers the cost of these projects) is what I find appalling.

 I honestly don't see any mention in the articles of what the WSF proposed and what Hoppe refused to do? I've got a lot of friends who are ranchers, most have a real concern for the land and the wildlife and take better care of the land and wildlife than what agencies do with our public lands.

They offered to help him find alternative pastures and/or install double fencing (this was PRIOR to any lamb predations).  After that, Hoppe wouldn't even return their phone calls.

[JLS]

http://bighornhealth.org/a-unique-approach

Here is some light reading on pneumonia and bighorn sheep. 

Hoppe refused to allow his sheep to be tested, so there is no way of ever knowing if the strains matched and came from his domestic sheep.

[wolfbait]

http://bighornhealth.org/a-unique-approach

Here is some light reading on pneumonia and bighorn sheep. 

"Hoppe refused to allow his sheep to be tested, so there is no way of ever knowing if the strains matched and came from his domestic sheep."

And yet you wrote:

"Bill Hoppe is a real gem.  He is pretty much single handedly responsible for the closure of a bighorn sheep district near Gardiner."


Do you have a special license to be the judge and jury? Or is it just your unbiased opinion?

[JLS]

Do you have a special license to be the judge and jury? Or is it just your unbiased opinion?

The same license you do Wolfie.

The sudden, large scale die off is indicative of a new strain of bacteria that the sheep were exposed to.  Combine that with the timing of the exposure and I think the preponderance of the evidence strongly supports my opinion.

I actually thought Hoppe was rather creative in creating the wolf conflict.  A good friend of mine, who is a long time Gardiner resident, also said as much.

[bearpaw]

Edit:  For the record, I don't believe Hoppe's original intent was to infect the bighorn sheep herd.  I fully believe his original intent was to create a wolf conflict, which it did, and which blew up bigger than he anticipated.  I believe that the bighorn sheep were just collateral damage incident to his primary agenda.  His willful indifference and refusal to work with WSF (who BTW covers the cost of these projects) is what I find appalling.

 I honestly don't see any mention in the articles of what the WSF proposed and what Hoppe refused to do? I've got a lot of friends who are ranchers, most have a real concern for the land and the wildlife and take better care of the land and wildlife than what agencies do with our public lands.

They offered to help him find alternative pastures and/or install double fencing (this was PRIOR to any lamb predations).  After that, Hoppe wouldn't even return their phone calls.

I certainly want to see sheep herds grow, but I have to wonder what exactly was said to cause that to happen? Too often people try to shut out ranchers or tell them what they have to do, if that happened that was probably the wrong approach. I think that approach has caused legislation in Idaho preventing any new sheep herds from being established anywhere in the state. I think the ranchers figure if new sheep herds aren't established that excuse can't be used as the reason to push them off their grazing leases. They are probably pretty accurate!

It's sad because there are a lot of areas that could support sheep, but I can understand the ranchers position because of the people who want to take away their way of earning a living.

[jackelope]

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5383002.pdf


Effects of Disease on Bighorn Populations
An extensive body of scientific literature on the effects of disease on bighorn populations has accumulated. The literature indicates the following: (1) numerous examples of bighorn die-offs due to disease have been documented; (2) bighorn die-offs were documented as early as the mid 1800s and have been documented in every state in the western U.S.; (3) bighorn die-offs typically follow known or suspected contact with domestic sheep or goats; (4) under experimental conditions, clinically healthy bighorn sheep have developed pneumonia and died within days to weeks following contact with clinically healthy domestic sheep; (5) a variety of diseases and pathogens have been implicated in die-offs, but most commonly the disease implicated in the die-off is bacterial pneumonia (Pasteurellosis) caused by Mannheimia haemolytica (formerly Pasteurella haemolytica) or other species of closely related Pasteurella bacteria; and (6) there is consensus among wildlife biologists and veterinarians experienced in bighorn sheep management that domestic sheep and goats and bighorn sheep must be kept separated in order to maintain healthy bighorn populations (Foreyt 1989; Garde et al. 2005; Martin et al. 1996; Monello et al. 2001; Schommer and Woolever 2001; Singer et al. 2000a, 2000b, 2000c, 2000d; Singer et al. 2001).

[bearpaw]

This is a good example of a positive approach with ranchers near the end of this video!

Not a valid vimeo URL

[jackelope]

So.... No comment?

[JLS]

That was a well done video that exemplifies the quality of people that work for WSF.  A couple of the faces in that video are people that I am proud to call friends, who have done a wealth of service to the public land hunter.

[bearpaw]

So.... No comment?

I'm not exactly sure if you are directing your question to me, since you posted twice right after I did I'll assume you are?
I think most involved hunters know the info you posted, I assumed you were posting it for the benefit of those who don't know? 

Are you looking for something else? 

[Boss .300 winmag]

TAGGING

[JLS]

Edit:  For the record, I don't believe Hoppe's original intent was to infect the bighorn sheep herd.  I fully believe his original intent was to create a wolf conflict, which it did, and which blew up bigger than he anticipated.  I believe that the bighorn sheep were just collateral damage incident to his primary agenda.  His willful indifference and refusal to work with WSF (who BTW covers the cost of these projects) is what I find appalling.

 I honestly don't see any mention in the articles of what the WSF proposed and what Hoppe refused to do? I've got a lot of friends who are ranchers, most have a real concern for the land and the wildlife and take better care of the land and wildlife than what agencies do with our public lands.

They offered to help him find alternative pastures and/or install double fencing (this was PRIOR to any lamb predations).  After that, Hoppe wouldn't even return their phone calls.

I certainly want to see sheep herds grow, but I have to wonder what exactly was said to cause that to happen? Too often people try to shut out ranchers or tell them what they have to do, if that happened that was probably the wrong approach.

Maybe nothing was said to cause that to happen.  Maybe Hoppe didn't really think or care about the effect it would have on others.

Some ranchers are excellent stewards and conservationists.  Hoppe obviously is not, IMO.

Edit:  Changed to reflect the last statement as an opinion and not a definitive fact.

[jackelope]

So.... No comment?

I'm not exactly sure if you are directing your question to me, since you posted twice right after I did I'll assume you are?
I think most involved hunters know the info you posted, I assumed you were posting it for the benefit of those who don't know? 

Are you looking for something else? 

It seemed to me like you were contesting that information.

[jackelope]

Edit:  For the record, I don't believe Hoppe's original intent was to infect the bighorn sheep herd.  I fully believe his original intent was to create a wolf conflict, which it did, and which blew up bigger than he anticipated.  I believe that the bighorn sheep were just collateral damage incident to his primary agenda.  His willful indifference and refusal to work with WSF (who BTW covers the cost of these projects) is what I find appalling.

You really should have said that in the first place! But I still think you may be wrong because if Hoppe was trying to bait the wolves or if he didn't care about the wild sheep coming close, why would he put bells on his sheep? It seems he wanted wildlife to avoid his sheep by putting bells on them, we do that with our hounds to try and deter wolves and it seems to work most of the time. Either way, I really doubt Hoppe intended for the sheep to get sick and die if in fact that was caused by his sheep. I honestly don't see any mention in the articles of what the WSF proposed and what Hoppe refused to do? I've got a lot of friends who are ranchers, most have a real concern for the land and the wildlife and take better care of the land and wildlife than what agencies do with our public lands.

http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/news/wildlife/bighorn-sheep-mingle-with-gardiner-domestic-sheep/article_67966a20-5baf-11e3-a220-0019bb2963f4.html

Hurley, a Wyoming Game and Fish bighorn biologist for 30 years, said the ram was initially startled by the sound of the bells on Hoppe’s sheep. But the urges of the breeding season caused the ram to get within about 6 feet of the sheep.

http://fwp.mt.gov/news/newsReleases/fishAndWildlife/nr_0713.html

In the Gardiner area, bighorn sheep have experienced a small number of pneumonia cases each of the last few years, but not to this extent.

It is not possible to detect the exact source of this pneumonia outbreak.

Pneumonia outbreaks have occurred in bighorn sheep populations with no known contact with domestic sheep (or goats). However, research has shown bacteria can be transmitted from healthy domestic sheep (or goats) to bighorn sheep, causing pneumonia in the wild sheep. There are currently domestic sheep flocks in the area.

Hopefully you're not implying that domestic sheep are not the cause of all these pneumonia outbreaks in the wild sheep?  I'm pretty sure you're not implying that, but just wanted to make sure. We lost a few entire herds of bighorns in Washington because they were infected by domestic sheep. The Hell's Canyon herd has been compromised. I'm sure there are lots of others.

And this one I quoted your comments.