Author Topic: Roosevelt Question (Read 11828 times)

colockumelk · « **on:** February 09, 2009, 09:48:52 AM »

I have never hunted Roosevelts and don't know anything about them. For you West Side guys here's my question. I have heard the Roosevelts are alot more call shy and are alot harder to call in than Rocky Mountain elk and arent nearly as aggressive during the rut as their Rocky cousins are. Such as constant bugling etc and being super aggressive with rounding up cows. I guess this is sort of like the difference in aggressivness between Mule Deer and the White Tails during the rut. One is sort of lax and the other is super aggressive. Like I said I know nothing about Roosevelt elk and have never hunted them I was just wondering what your thoughts are on that. Thank you.

vfilbert · « **Reply #1 on:** February 09, 2009, 11:36:53 AM »

i have hunted both, and as far as i can tell they are both equally active in the bugle depending on weather and the particular timing wether late or early, thats just my experience, i have killed bulls on the west side but never on the east, no large factors involved just happend to connect with roosevelts in the rut. check out this website angryspike.com it shows very aggresive roosevelts in the bugle. hope that helped

colockumelk · « **Reply #2 on:** February 09, 2009, 11:43:27 AM »

Thanks yeah it helped. Like I said I wasn't trying to say "My elk are better than your elk" kind of thing. I just read that somewhere and since I didn't know who better to ask than the experts, the ones who hunt them every year.

WAPITIHUNTER · « **Reply #3 on:** February 09, 2009, 12:15:47 PM »

I have hunted the wet side for roosies now 17 years and have had some crazy encounters with some messed up Bulls. They will get absolutley fired up.

Two years ago in the early hunt I stated calling in the evening over behind my place. It took about 15 min's to get a response but then it got psycho. He let out a single bugle from about 1/4 mile away. I let out some cow calls and a high pitched squealy bugle. Then he got fired up and was running in. Three long bugles all in a row. So I called some more. Then he really got nuts. He came crashing through the thick brush bugling and then he got angry. He let out all this grunting and growls real deep down in the gut and started trampling around thrashing his antlers in some bushes. All I could think was HOLY CRAP! He then came right up the trail to 35 yards and pinned me. He would not turn for the shot. Oh well.

WAPITIHUNTER · « **Reply #4 on:** February 09, 2009, 12:56:48 PM »

That was on a Monday. The Friday following that I was up at Elbe and we were hunting this piece of private ground. We got there in the evening about 45 minutes before dark and got set up on the field to wait for the elk to filter in. All the sudden it sounded like a chorus had started singing. There were three different bulls all bugling away and they were all moving toward the field. Then the property owners sister caused a ruckus and kicked us out of the field. I could hear the bulls turn and head away.

I knew we had to run them down so I grabbed my partner and boogied up into the clearcut after the closest bull. I was half running because we were running out of light. I peaked over the hill and there he was, head down and heading straight for the dark timber. I called to him a couple times and got nothing, he just kept slowly picking his way along. I am sitting there asking myself what it was going to take to turn this bull around when, with his head down he lets out this short deep growly bugle. That was my Que. I grabbed my bugle and copied it Perfectly.

It worked cause he was coming on a Beeline. He never even looked up once. He just dropped his head and was coming. I looked over and my buddy and told him to get ready cause he was coming in.

Before I finish I will admit that I had been messing with my peep in the field and it turned in the string so I could not see through it. That was the stupidest thing I think I have ever done. I thought to myself " you big dumby now you are going to have to shoot one without your peep."

Well the bull came all the way from 150 yards to my left side and stood at 30 yards broadside. I drew my bow as he was still coming in and when he stopped I looked back and forth around my turned peep lined up the shot and cut one loose. Twang..........swoosh. My arrow blew right through him.

I start calling to settle him down and one of the other bulls comes running right up to 40 yards. My buddie ended up getting a shot off but shot right over his back.

Came back in the morning and trailed the bull 150 yards and recovered him.

Here he is. You have all seen him before so no big surprise. They do respond very well to calling on the wet side!

colockumelk · « **Reply #5 on:** February 09, 2009, 01:58:48 PM »

Then the author of that was an idiot. I will believe you guys over a guy who probably hunted them once and decided he was an expert at it so he should write an article on it. Thanks for clearing that up. I figured it was BS that's why I asked you guys the real scoop. Wapati that was a really cool story. You might change my mind about the east side yet. Nice kill.

Alan K · « **Reply #6 on:** February 09, 2009, 03:59:43 PM »

Where I hunt them at there aren't all that many big bulls. A lot of time it's a small bull running the herds, and you have to be careful not to over do it. If you sound too big a lot of times they take their cows and run!

sportsman002001 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 09, 2009, 04:43:22 PM »

This is my bull from 07 and he was with 4 other bulls and they were all fired up bugling and thrashing brush. Got dark and came back the next moring and got on top of them and bugled once to loacate and threw in some estrus calls and they got fired up again thrashing brush and trees. Moved in within about 60 yards and grunted at this bull and he came running to within 5 yards for a shot. I think it is just hitting the rut at the right time. Also I believe they may rutting hard in one area and not so much in another. That is just what I have found out. Good hunting in 09 to all.

WAPITIHUNTER · « **Reply #8 on:** February 09, 2009, 05:17:57 PM »

Outstanding job there Sportsman and beautiful bull.

heavy hauler · « **Reply #9 on:** February 09, 2009, 05:19:25 PM »

i think on the west side the elk may be a little more "educated". i know alot of people have AND use a hoochie mama and call constantly.after just a few encounters the elk shut up for good.plus tons of hunters in a small area = tons of calling and quiet elk. i am sure the eastside elk clam up also once the woods fill up with people.

sportsman002001 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 09, 2009, 07:46:28 PM »

wapitihunter thanks for the comment and the same goes to you nice bull and great work. As heavy hauler states the elk are a little more educated here on the west side and that is very true. I try to get in areas that have very little pressure and do not call at all until I find some elk and sit and watch and see what kind of mood they are in. If other hunter put their calls away and let the elk tell you what they want I think you would a difference in their action. I use to call alot and the last 3 years I put the calls away and just watch and listen and go from there. That is just my

WAPITIHUNTER · « **Reply #11 on:** February 09, 2009, 08:02:48 PM »

You and I think alot alike my friend. I also listen alot and wait for the elk to dictate what I am going to do. Elk hunting would be alot more fulfilling and successful if most would just leave the calls at home.

Let the herds mood tell us what to do not the other way around. Usually when we try to dictate what the herd or bulls will do they end up running the other way.

colockumelk · « **Reply #12 on:** February 09, 2009, 11:25:41 PM »

Quote from: heavy hauler on February 09, 2009, 05:19:25 PM

i think on the west side the elk may be a little more "educated". i know alot of people have AND use a hoochie mama and call constantly.after just a few encounters the elk shut up for good.plus tons of hunters in a small area = tons of calling and quiet elk. i am sure the eastside elk clam up also once the woods fill up with people.

I hate that call with all my heart and soul. Because of that call any idiot can now call to elk and they do. They sit there and push that thing over and over again. It's stupid it has the same tone and everything. So they sound like a single elk just calling and calling and calling which they don't do. If they would study calls a little bit they'd know that the hoochi mama was designed as a supplementary call to the mouth call. To be used so you can sound like more than one elk. Now here's the pot calling the kettle black. I own a hoochie mamma call and have called elk in with it. But I use it as a supplement to my mouth calls. Okay my rant is done. God I can't wait for elk season to start. You west side hippies might convince me to hunt over there yet. Maybe I'll start a reverse trend of east siders going west to hunt instead of the great migration east every year.

I'm just kidding. But seriously I might come over next year and kill all your elk.

Aneoakleaf · « **Reply #13 on:** February 09, 2009, 11:46:25 PM »

I Have to agree... they arn't call shy when there's no traffic running up and down the roads. The west side has very roaded terrain. Also it has a lot of gated and closed due to fire season ( even when it's raining) priver logging Co. Land All this pushes many of the hunters onto the small areas of public ground and that will make the bulls shut up. I love hunting the rossies!

Annie

spin05 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 10, 2009, 07:43:01 AM »

I hunt out on the coast.I think the true roosevelts out there tend to be call shy.You get a little when its dark if its hot then nothing.I prefer to cow call them

colockumelk · « **Reply #15 on:** February 10, 2009, 10:22:54 AM »

I talked to a wildlife bioligist recently and he said that the only pure bred Roosevelt herds left in the state are on the Olympic penninsula and far SW Washington. Most of the rest of the herds especially in the western cascades/foothills are mostly half breeds. Rosie/Rocky Mountain crosses. Kind of like most of the deer in Central Washington are Black Tail/Muley crosses.

spin05 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 10, 2009, 12:15:20 PM »

Quote from: colockumelk on February 10, 2009, 10:22:54 AM

I talked to a wildlife bioligist recently and he said that the only pure bred Roosevelt herds left in the state are on the Olympic penninsula and far SW Washington. Most of the rest of the herds especially in the western cascades/foothills are mostly half breeds. Rosie/Rocky Mountain crosses. Kind of like most of the deer in Central Washington are Black Tail/Muley crosses.

I concour......

WAPITIHUNTER · « **Reply #17 on:** February 10, 2009, 12:17:35 PM »

So I guess we have been hunting "BENCH BULLS" this whole time.

colockumelk · « **Reply #18 on:** February 10, 2009, 01:31:27 PM »

Might not be all bad especially if they have the body size of a Roosevelt and the antler size of a Rocky Mountain elk. That would be a good combo. More meat and more rack for the money. We could call classify them as a new species of elk. We could call them the Magnum Elk. (Might have to work on the name a bit.)

funkster · « **Reply #19 on:** February 10, 2009, 01:45:46 PM »

The record book says anything west of I-5 is considered a Rosie! This season I did not get as much bugling action as last year down in the SW. I attribute this to a lot of people bugling at them while scouting before the season started. I came across more than a few guys doing this, all this does is teach the elk to not bugle when we need them to. There is absolutely no reason to blow your bugle at camp either, it's hard enough to hunt thees creatures than having yahoo's educating the animals we are trying to hunt. I know it is fun and exciting but it is more fun and exciting when you can actually shoot the animal that is coming to your call.

WAPITIHUNTER · « **Reply #20 on:** February 10, 2009, 01:57:10 PM »

I would agree 100%. Leave the calls at home while scouting. If I was having a hard time locating Elk I might go out the night before the opener and call all night and mark the location on a map for the morning but that's it. I would never go out and call prior to that.

colockumelk · « **Reply #21 on:** February 10, 2009, 02:32:33 PM »

I also agree. People need to learn how to call. WIth how calls are now-a-days anyone can be decent and for most people decent is enough. The problem is, is that people take the time to practise to get good at quality calls but they don't take that time to learn when and when not to call.

My advice for this is to go to a place that is permit only. Such as the last three years I have educated many bull elk near where I live. I go up into the Colockum where they give out a total of 6 permits a year and practise on those elk. If I educate them who cares no one else is hunting them. I don't ruin anyones hunting and every year I get better and better at calling.

When I scout I do sometimes call. However I don't sit on a ridge and call and call and call. If it's early morning or in the late evening just before the season I'll through out a locating bugle to see if I can get a response. But on each ridge line I wont throw but one maybe two bugles out before moving on. Some may disagree with me but I feel that one bugle late in the evening wont make them call shy. Especially if they didn't smell me or see me as a human. Where they get educated is when they hear a call nearby and then all of a sudden they see or smell a human.

Houndhunter · « **Reply #22 on:** February 10, 2009, 02:41:43 PM »

the only reason i would say they tend to seem more call shy is due to the weather......... and idians

funkster · « **Reply #23 on:** February 10, 2009, 02:58:01 PM »

That's good advice! I came across one fellow that was on the road bugling at a elk that looked like he just bolted across the road. The elk was stopped 20 or so yards and the man was in the middle of the road. He gave me ugly eyes when I didn't stop, as I went by I just shook my head and all I could say was WTF? I take myself as a nice guy but this just gets me mad. I no it has a lot to do with the amount of new archer's and they just do not no better,a guy could make a mint if he wrote a book called "elk bugling for dummies when, where, how and why".

WAPITIHUNTER · « **Reply #24 on:** February 10, 2009, 03:07:19 PM »

"elk bugling for dummies when, where, how and why".

Now that is pretty funny.

colockumelk · « **Reply #25 on:** February 10, 2009, 03:10:26 PM »

The good part is I like to mess with these guys. Once it was mid-afternoon and I saw some guys about a two hundred yards below me so I started cow calling a bunch. I mean like it was a gab fest. (Would never really do that with elk.) Sure enough those two came walking as quick as they could up to me. I let them get about 15 yards from me. I was under a tree in the open enjoying the sun, and cow called. They froze and made hand motions implying that they had heard elk. I nodded and pointed up the hill and off they went.

A second time I was walking back to my truck with my friend and heard what was obviously a couple guys bugling. Me and my friend joked they were probably sitting on their tail gait. So we started bugling and cow calling and breaking trees. Doing a real good impression of a group of elk. This got them all excited and they started calling over and over again with their bugle. And i do mean over and over. We got tired of the game and sat down and had a chew and listened to their imitation of what must have been 1,000 elk. When we got down to them they asked us if we'd seen anything we said no. They said that they'd called in a really big 6x6 with 20 cows from where we came from but couldn't get a shot. They couldn't believe that we hadn't seen all those "elk." They must have thought that we were really stupid.

RUTNBULL1 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 10, 2009, 09:30:11 PM »

Nice bulls guys, good job on your success. I have hunted WA. for 28 years now and love to hunt elk. I have hunted both rockies and rossies, mostly rossies until the last few years when I have been hunting out of state,( WY, Or. etc.). The Rocky Mt. elk seem to be a little more vocal, and aggressive, not just in this state but others as well, becuase I think it has alot to do with our weather. The rossies can be just as vocal during certain times of the rut,you have to hit it right. Not to beat my own drum, but have taken 10 rossie archery bulls in a row in this state (WA), and One in OR. two years ago and one in WY., in 2008. Enough of my history, I have been studying my local herds for a long time during the season and off-season, and it seems to me that our flucuation in our barometric pressure effects their behavior and rutting activity as much as anything. I have to agree with not bringing the calls out of the pack, especially in heavily pressured areas. To many people are calling excessively and not making the right call's at the right time (maybe inexperience). But not all these callers are archery hunters, hunters, or hunters at all. Last fall the Kenniwick Paper had a article from a Blue Mt. region biologist saying Elk are call shy. He was stating that not just hunters were calling during the rut, many none hunters and such were calling to listen to the elk or to disturb them, hoping to cause them to go silent, which in-return disturbing our hunting oppertunities. Wish all Eastside and Westside stick slingers good luck in 2009.

colockumelk · « **Reply #27 on:** February 10, 2009, 10:35:48 PM »

What is this "luck" that you speak of and how to you go about getting some?

RUTNBULL1 · « **Reply #28 on:** February 10, 2009, 11:00:31 PM »

Yeah, I suppose every time you set forth into the woods there is some luck involved. I have made it my passion to hunt elk and figure out their habits in the wild. All that I can say that it is getting harder and harder within all states with call shy elk, the farther you can get back into the wilderness and away from pressure the better off you are. Also calm under pressure to close the deal when it counts. Another perspective is go out to enjoy your hunt and the wildlife not just to harvest an animal and it seems to calm your nerves under pressure, don't get me wrong I still seek the thrill and excitement of big screeming Sept. bulls. Good Luck.

mossback91 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 10, 2009, 11:03:51 PM »

HOLY SH!T theres another mossback!

RUTNBULL1 · « **Reply #30 on:** February 10, 2009, 11:09:36 PM »

Yeah that's right another Mossback, man that is good there is only two of us left huh!

colockumelk · « **Reply #31 on:** February 10, 2009, 11:10:18 PM »

Quote from: mossback91 on February 10, 2009, 11:03:51 PM

HOLY SH!T theres another mossback!

Crap their breeding like rabbits. Pretty soon there'll be mossbacks all over the place. Maybe they'll give some special permits out for them. Nah the Indians will claim their ancestors hunted them and only they'll be able to hunt mossbacks.

RUTNBULL1 · « **Reply #32 on:** February 10, 2009, 11:16:15 PM »

Man I'm glad my camo works well and I 'm sneeky!

Hunting Mossback's

we shoot back silently.

mossback91 · « **Reply #33 on:** February 10, 2009, 11:17:13 PM »

Mossbacks are well trained indian killers..............

colockumelk · « **Reply #34 on:** February 10, 2009, 11:21:12 PM »

As long as you stay farther than 20yds off of the roads I'm sure you'll be perfectly safe anyways.

WAPITIHUNTER · « **Reply #35 on:** February 11, 2009, 08:54:05 AM »

Quote from: Mossback2 on February 10, 2009, 09:30:11 PM

Nice bulls guys, good job on your success. I have hunted WA. for 28 years now and love to hunt elk. I have hunted both rockies and rossies, mostly rossies until the last few years when I have been hunting out of state,( WY, Or. etc.). The Rocky Mt. elk seem to be a little more vocal, and aggressive, not just in this state but others as well, becuase I think it has alot to do with our weather. The rossies can be just as vocal during certain times of the rut,you have to hit it right. Not to beat my own drum, but have taken 10 rossie archery bulls in a row in this state (WA), and One in OR. two years ago and one in WY., in 2008. Enough of my history, I have been studying my local herds for a long time during the season and off-season, and it seems to me that our flucuation in our barometric pressure effects their behavior and rutting activity as much as anything. I have to agree with not bringing the calls out of the pack, especially in heavily pressured areas. To many people are calling excessively and not making the right call's at the right time (maybe inexperience). But not all these callers are archery hunters, hunters, or hunters at all. Last fall the Kenniwick Paper had a article from a Blue Mt. region biologist saying Elk are call shy. He was stating that not just hunters were calling during the rut, many none hunters and such were calling to listen to the elk or to disturb them, hoping to cause them to go silent, which in-return disturbing our hunting oppertunities. Wish all Eastside and Westside stick slingers good luck in 2009.

Outstanding string of success there MB2. Now get busy and start scanning those pictures and get them on here. WE NEED TO SEE THEM. Emphasis on need.

colockumelk · « **Reply #36 on:** February 11, 2009, 09:03:02 AM »

Until September rolls around I basically live my life through other peoples pictures.

RUTNBULL1 · « **Reply #37 on:** February 11, 2009, 08:05:29 PM »

I will try to post some more pics soon.

Busy trying to get a bid proposal done before tomorrow.

WAPITIHUNTER · « **Reply #38 on:** February 11, 2009, 08:09:15 PM »

Thank you so much for posting those. Them are some really nice bulls. Congrat's amd can't wait to see the rest.

huntnphool · « **Reply #39 on:** February 11, 2009, 09:23:32 PM »

Nice bulls for sure

RUTNBULL1 · « **Reply #40 on:** February 12, 2009, 12:36:53 PM »

Finished the bid, more pictures per request.

Here are my 2008 Archery Bulls in the states of Wyoming and Washington.

WAPITIHUNTER · « **Reply #41 on:** February 12, 2009, 12:43:26 PM »

ahhhh........I now have a warm fuzzy fealing inside.

RUTNBULL1 · « **Reply #42 on:** February 12, 2009, 01:03:24 PM »

Yeah, I know what you mean, just getting into my pictures and looking at them makes me anxious for the season to begin.

Need to fix the scanner to get more previous years of archery bulls onto my laptop picture database.

colockumelk · « **Reply #43 on:** February 12, 2009, 01:19:24 PM »

Nice bull. That will bet me through the day. Did you get that on a special permit hunt or regular season? What GMU did you get that from. Not asking for a honey hole I just for whatever reason have a huge curiosity of what GMU things are killed.

RUTNBULL1 · « **Reply #44 on:** February 12, 2009, 05:49:52 PM »

Washington Bull Westside Archery, and Wyoming was a Full Price General Elk Tag with a additional purchase of a Archery tag, the General tag is a draw. Points will help your draw success, just like any quota area in any state or system, I was lucky I geuss and drew with only one point.

bam · « **Reply #45 on:** February 12, 2009, 06:02:46 PM »

Nice bulls Mossback2! You da Man! In all seriousness I know those pics represent many hours scouting, long days, sore feet, tired back, and high Adrenalin! Keep up the good work!

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