AR15 won't cycle (Update)

[sabot92]

Hey guys, recently bought a new Rogue Defense AR15. Took it to the range today and the first 5 shots went off without a problem. After that, nothing. I can make one shot then it just clicks. It's cycling the cartridge into the chamber but won't shoot. I noticed the cartridges have very light pin holes on the primer but obviously not enough to shoot it. All help is appreciated. Thanks. -Tyler

[300rum]

What kind of ammo are you using?

[sabot92]

The gun is chambered in 5.56 and I'm using Federals XM193F. It was the cheapest I found. It's also 5.56. 55 grain boat-tail.

[jay.sharkbait]

Is the bolt going into battery on the second shot?

It may be short stroking. Some things that cause this in a new AR -

Loose or mis aligned gas block
Loose gas key
Gas port too small

If it is going into battery I would remove the bolt and look at firing pin and make sure there is no debris etc.

Checking head space wouldn't be a bad idea either. If it was too tight it might not go into battery.

[sabot92]

Yes it's going into battery. I have checked both the gas block and key and they are both nice and tight. It's short stroking. Maybe it was just too dirty. I just disassembled everything and cleaned it down. Hopefully that will be the trick. Like I said it was shooting just fine st first then it just went down hill.

[jay.sharkbait]

Yes it's going into battery. I have checked both the gas block and key and they are both nice and tight. It's short stroking. Maybe it was just too dirty. I just disassembled everything and cleaned it down. Hopefully that will be the trick. Like I said it was shooting just fine st first then it just went down hill.

What butt stock?

I know it sounds silly but the a2 or rifle buffer system will sometimes hit the buttstock screw if the screw is too long.

[b23]

I'm wondering if you possibly have a chamber that's a little on the generous side and after it gets a little heat in it and things expand that tiny bit, the ammo you're shooting becomes a little loose in the chamber causing excess headspace and the firing pin is actually pushes the ammo forward when it strikes the primer.  Kinda sounds like an excessive head space problem, whether it's from a generous chamber or undersized ammo, and the firing pin is actually pushing the cartridge forward as it strikes it giving you those light strikes.

[sabot92]

The butt stock is a MFT. I also noticed when I pull the charging handle back while holding the trigger, and then let go of the trigger, the trigger will only click if I push it forward. It won't click on its own when I let go. Not sure if that's an issue or not. And also when I go to lock the upper recover into the lower, my bolt is rubbing against the spring in the stock. Again, not sure if that's an issue or if that's how it is supposed to be.

[fishngamereaper]

Will it fire one round if you manually chamber it then after it cycles it won't shoot the second one.?

[sabot92]

Will it fire one round if you manually chamber it then after it cycles it won't shoot the second one.?

Yes that is correct.

[jay.sharkbait]

The butt stock is a MFT. I also noticed when I pull the charging handle back while holding the trigger, and then let go of the trigger, the trigger will only click if I push it forward. It won't click on its own when I let go. Not sure if that's an issue or not. And also when I go to lock the upper recover into the lower, my bolt is rubbing against the spring in the stock. Again, not sure if that's an issue or if that's how it is supposed to be.

The bolt carrier should be touching a buffer and not a spring.

There is a buffer? Right?

[fishngamereaper]

The butt stock is a MFT. I also noticed when I pull the charging handle back while holding the trigger, and then let go of the trigger, the trigger will only click if I push it forward. It won't click on its own when I let go. Not sure if that's an issue or not. And also when I go to lock the upper recover into the lower, my bolt is rubbing against the spring in the stock. Again, not sure if that's an issue or if that's how it is supposed to be.

If you don't have trigger reset that explains the no fire issue. A lot of AR's will light strike primers when chambering a round. But if your trigger didn't reset it won't fire. Have you cleaned the heck out it, to include compressed air blow out.

[benhuntin]

Dirty?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sabot92]

The butt stock is a MFT. I also noticed when I pull the charging handle back while holding the trigger, and then let go of the trigger, the trigger will only click if I push it forward. It won't click on its own when I let go. Not sure if that's an issue or not. And also when I go to lock the upper recover into the lower, my bolt is rubbing against the spring in the stock. Again, not sure if that's an issue or if that's how it is supposed to be.

The bolt carrier should be touching a buffer and not a spring.

There is a buffer? Right?

Yes there is a buffer. Sorry about that. Didn't mean to confuse you. Still learning all of the parts and names. I have not cleaned it with compressed air but I can certainly give that a shot. Any recommendations on lubes, greases, ect?

[jay.sharkbait]

The butt stock is a MFT. I also noticed when I pull the charging handle back while holding the trigger, and then let go of the trigger, the trigger will only click if I push it forward. It won't click on its own when I let go. Not sure if that's an issue or not. And also when I go to lock the upper recover into the lower, my bolt is rubbing against the spring in the stock. Again, not sure if that's an issue or if that's how it is supposed to be.

The bolt carrier should be touching a buffer and not a spring.

There is a buffer? Right?

Yes there is a buffer. Sorry about that. Didn't mean to confuse you. Still learning all of the parts and names. I have not cleaned it with compressed air but I can certainly give that a shot. Any recommendations on lubes, greases, ect?

I've always used break free/ CLP, or Tri flow.

I think frogs lube and all the other Gucci lubes are over rated.

When you go out next time try putting one round in mag and fire. The BCG should lock back. If not it's short stroking and may require more attention.

[sabot92]

I just had someone watch while the gun reloads and the bolt is not pushing all the way forward. It stays about a half inch open.

[fishngamereaper]

Does the forward assist close it all the way. Sound's like its hanging on the locking lugs. But it may be hanging up on your trigger assembly since your not getting true reset.

[300rum]

What kind of magazine are you using?

[300rum]

One Mag?  Multiple mags doing the same thing? Cheap mags?

[JimmyHoffa]

How does it feel when it recoils?  Does it feel like the bolt carrier group goes smoothly back and not much recoil?  Or is it more like the bolt carrier group slams back and you get extra recoil?

[JLS]

Check the gas key screws and make sure they are tight.

Open up the upper from the lower, and check your trigger reset.  Press tigger, hold it in.  Cock hammer, then slowly let out trigger, and watch for the reset.  Is this happening okay?

Get a new magazine and see if you get lockback on an empty like jay.sharkbait recommended, then see if it will chamber a round.

[fishngamereaper]

Also make sure gas rings are staggared on your bolt.

[sabot92]

Also make sure gas rings are staggared on your bolt.

Can you explain that please? I know what the gas rings are but don't know what you mean by staggered. I'm only using a 30 round PMAG magazine at the moment. Recoil is very light. I have checked gas block and key and made sure they were tight. Cleaned everything multiple times.

[fishngamereaper]

Also make sure gas rings are staggared on your bolt.

Can you explain that please? I know what the gas rings are but don't know what you mean by staggered. I'm only using a 30 round PMAG magazine at the moment. Recoil is very light. I have checked gas block and key and made sure they were tight. Cleaned everything multiple times.

Slots in the rings shouldn't line up. Gas will blow by them and reduce ability of the BCG to function. Make sure the slots are all in different positions.

[sabot92]

Ok I just made sure of that. I think I will have to take it back and have them mess with it. The bolt keeps hanging up only when there is a round in the chamber. If I pull the charging handle back with the gun empty it functions just fine.

[JimmyHoffa]

Ok I just made sure of that. I think I will have to take it back and have them mess with it. The bolt keeps hanging up only when there is a round in the chamber. If I pull the charging handle back with the gun empty it functions just fine.

Empty meaning no magazine in the well or an empty mag inserted?

[JLS]

Also make sure gas rings are staggared on your bolt.

This makes no difference at all.  The slots are compressed whent he bolt is seated in the bolt carrier.

[JLS]

Ok I just made sure of that. I think I will have to take it back and have them mess with it. The bolt keeps hanging up only when there is a round in the chamber. If I pull the charging handle back with the gun empty it functions just fine.

okay, so if you rack the charging handle to chamber a round, does it seat?  If there is one in the chamber, and you rack the charging handle, does it eject a round and seat the other?

[sabot92]

Ok I just made sure of that. I think I will have to take it back and have them mess with it. The bolt keeps hanging up only when there is a round in the chamber. If I pull the charging handle back with the gun empty it functions just fine.

okay, so if you rack the charging handle to chamber a round, does it seat?  If there is one in the chamber, and you rack the charging handle, does it eject a round and seat the other?

It's not looking like the shell is seating properly. I will not eject a shell when I pull the charging handle back. The shell seems somewhat stuck in the chamber. I have to tip my gun and shake it out of the chamber.

[sabot92]

Ok I just made sure of that. I think I will have to take it back and have them mess with it. The bolt keeps hanging up only when there is a round in the chamber. If I pull the charging handle back with the gun empty it functions just fine.

Empty meaning no magazine in the well or an empty mag inserted?

Both.

[fishngamereaper]

Also make sure gas rings are staggared on your bolt.

This makes no difference at all.  The slots are compressed whent he bolt is seated in the bolt carrier.

I will disagree but that can be a different thread.

[fishngamereaper]

Since your gun is brand new I would take it back rather than mess around with trying to fix what may or may not be wrong with it. Let us know what the outcome is.

[jay.sharkbait]

I know I'm a ways, but I would be happy to gauge it and give it a once over.

[JLS]

Also make sure gas rings are staggared on your bolt.

This makes no difference at all.  The slots are compressed whent he bolt is seated in the bolt carrier.

I will disagree but that can be a different thread.

I'll test it tomorrow if you want.  I've tested it, and I've also heard straight from Ken Elmore that it makes no difference.

[JLS]

Since your gun is brand new I would take it back rather than mess around with trying to fix what may or may not be wrong with it. Let us know what the outcome is.

I agree 110% with this.  Your gun has some issues with machining and/or parts.  I am assuming you are not overly familiar with these rifles.  Given that plus it's brand new I would take it back to the dealer and have them make it right.

[ellensburgpo]

Just my two cents, but I'd find an armorer who is close to you, let him run it a bit, and see what he/she thinks. It's difficult to diagnose a problem with a firearm via a forum post and with you being new to this system it could be something really easy to correct. This would also rule out that you are inducing the problem, which if that is the case getting another rifle won't fix.

[fishngamereaper]

Also make sure gas rings are staggared on your bolt.

This makes no difference at all.  The slots are compressed whent he bolt is seated in the bolt carrier.

I will disagree but that can be a different thread.

I'll test it tomorrow if you want.  I've tested it, and I've also heard straight from Ken Elmore that it makes no difference.

I've read some of kens stuff. But in 18 years of running, building, fixing, cleaning and teaching AR platform's I have always been religious about them dam gas rings. It's something engrained in me. So, I always recommend people check them. I have on isolated occsssions seen them be the cause of function problems. Sorry, old habits are hard to break.

[300rum]

First, Make sure and look in the chamber closely just to make sure something isn't in there.  If the headspace is off you can have a round that separates in the chamber and then the next round will feed right into what is left of the separated case that is left in the chamber. 

From what you are describing, I would imagine it is a headspace issue...

[300rum]

We all used to worry about them but it has turned into kind of a wives tale.   

Also make sure gas rings are staggared on your bolt.

This makes no difference at all.  The slots are compressed whent he bolt is seated in the bolt carrier.

I will disagree but that can be a different thread.

I'll test it tomorrow if you want.  I've tested it, and I've also heard straight from Ken Elmore that it makes no difference.

I've read some of kens stuff. But in 18 years of running, building, fixing, cleaning and teaching AR platform's I have always been religious about them dam gas rings. It's something engrained in me. So, I always recommend people check them. I have on isolated occsssions seen them be the cause of function problems. Sorry, old habits are hard to break.

[sabot92]

Just wanted to give an update. I took the gun back to the shop and they tested it and found out that the BCG was not lining up in the feed ramp properly so they filed it down a bit and did some test shots and the gun performed well. Thanks to everyone for all of your help and advice.

[Alchase]

Thanks for the update.

[jay.sharkbait]

Just wanted to give an update. I took the gun back to the shop and they tested it and found out that the BCG was not lining up in the feed ramp properly so they filed it down a bit and did some test shots and the gun performed well. Thanks to everyone for all of your help and advice.

 

[JLS]

Just wanted to give an update. I took the gun back to the shop and they tested it and found out that the BCG was not lining up in the feed ramp properly so they filed it down a bit and did some test shots and the gun performed well. Thanks to everyone for all of your help and advice.

 

Makes you wonder about the machining process, eh?

[300rum]

When you have a chance, take a pic of where they filed it down. 

[fishngamereaper]

Just wanted to give an update. I took the gun back to the shop and they tested it and found out that the BCG was not lining up in the feed ramp properly so they filed it down a bit and did some test shots and the gun performed well. Thanks to everyone for all of your help and advice.

 

 

I'm sure they just filed down a locking lug or two. No biggy..

[Jburke]

Just wanted to give an update. I took the gun back to the shop and they tested it and found out that the BCG was not lining up in the feed ramp properly so they filed it down a bit and did some test shots and the gun performed well. Thanks to everyone for all of your help and advice.

 

Makes you wonder about the machining process, eh?

Makes me wonder more about the shop it was bought from/brought back to.

[lee]

I'm sure they just filed down a locking lug or two. No biggy..
[/quote]

Are the lugs hardened? If so,... most hardening processes are to the surface of the metal. Filing off the surface material can greatly affect the hardening value.

Lee

[jay.sharkbait]

I'm sure they just filed down a locking lug or two. No biggy..

Are the lugs hardened? If so,... most hardening processes are to the surface of the metal. Filing off the surface material can greatly affect the hardening value.

Lee
[/quote]

That's why there are so many.

Extras...