Demise of the Willapa

[WSU]

Forks creek has no real way to get hatchery fish out of the river. Wdfw released millions of fish specifically to gillnet the bay damn near constantly from August to December.  All done knowing they netted the crap out of any wild fish and knowing they couldn't remove the hatchery fish that escaped the gill nets.

Mismanagement is in the eye of the beholder I suppose. If you want lots of hatchery fish to net then wdfw did well. If you want wild fish and compliance with state law wdfw did poorly.

What's your expert opinion?

Have you ever been to the forks creek hatchery? It's absurd to say they don't have any real way to get hatchery fish out of the river. They definitely do.

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Yes. And I agree my statement may be poorly worded. My understanding is that the straying problem is created by the fish, especially chinook, not going up the tiny creek and instead spawning in the main river.

[WSU]

Not all as bad as Forks Creek or even close.  And I am definitely not anti-hatchery.  Do you know why production was moved? Do you know why releases were reduced in the willipa specifically?

And nice dodge by the way. Don't like the facts? Just point the finger at a different group and act like your own actions aren't the problem. One of the very real problems facing salmon is that we commercially harvest damn near all of them before they can spawn.

No dodge. Pointing out serious problems for wild stocks. Hatcheries are near the top. Well managed wild stocks can be exploited. Washington's are not well managed. It doesn't have anything to do with harvest. It has to do with production and hatcheries have hidden the fact that once world class rivers don't have near the production that they should. Even systems that have no commercial effort have suffered. As long as hatcheries are leaned on, it will never change. Hatcheries should only be used sparingly to enhance wild runs. They should never be used as the end all.

I agree that hatcheries are at times part of the problem. So is habitat.  But saying harvest isn't part of the problem is simply dead wrong. This is especially true in willipa.  Even rivers without a gillnet fishery are heavily harvest in Alaska troll fisheries and in Canada. Often a huge percent of our fish are harvested commercially north of washington's boarder. Lots are also harvested commercially here in troll fisheries.

[grundy53]

Forks creek has no real way to get hatchery fish out of the river. Wdfw released millions of fish specifically to gillnet the bay damn near constantly from August to December.  All done knowing they netted the crap out of any wild fish and knowing they couldn't remove the hatchery fish that escaped the gill nets.

Mismanagement is in the eye of the beholder I suppose. If you want lots of hatchery fish to net then wdfw did well. If you want wild fish and compliance with state law wdfw did poorly.

What's your expert opinion?

Have you ever been to the forks creek hatchery? It's absurd to say they don't have any real way to get hatchery fish out of the river. They definitely do.

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk

Yes. And I agree my statement may be poorly worded. My understanding is that the straying problem is created by the fish, especially chinook, not going up the tiny creek and instead spawning in the main river.

That makes more sense.

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[WAPatriot]

Last year for the derby my buddy and I caught 6 wilds over two days. I think the Willipa hatcheries aren't clipping a very high percent of fish.

[WSU]

Last year for the derby my buddy and I caught 6 wilds over two days. I think the Willipa hatcheries aren't clipping a very high percent of fish.

Probably dip ins, as the locals call them.  Lots of fish bound for the Columbia and elsewhere enter the bay, especially when there is a lot of bait in the bay.

[WSU]

Here is an article from the Aberdeen Daily World discussing the issue:

http://www.thedailyworld.com/news/grays-harbor-willapa-bay-salmon-discussed-at-feb-11-commission-meeting/

[JimmyHoffa]

Forks creek has no real way to get hatchery fish out of the river. Wdfw released millions of fish specifically to gillnet the bay damn near constantly from August to December.  All done knowing they netted the crap out of any wild fish and knowing they couldn't remove the hatchery fish that escaped the gill nets.

Mismanagement is in the eye of the beholder I suppose. If you want lots of hatchery fish to net then wdfw did well. If you want wild fish and compliance with state law wdfw did poorly.

What's your expert opinion?

Have you ever been to the forks creek hatchery? It's absurd to say they don't have any real way to get hatchery fish out of the river. They definitely do.

Sent from my E6782 using Tapatalk

Yes. And I agree my statement may be poorly worded. My understanding is that the straying problem is created by the fish, especially chinook, not going up the tiny creek and instead spawning in the main river.

But straying isn't a problem biologically.  It is completely natural to those species and keeps them healthy.  A certain percentage will stray to seek out new places to colonize.  The mixing of the genes gives all of them increased immune protection.  If it wasn't for the straying, there would be tens of thousands of different types of salmon.

[WSU]

Some straying is natural for sure. Having too many hatchery fish spawning is a problem though.

[WAPatriot]

Last year for the derby my buddy and I caught 6 wilds over two days. I think the Willipa hatcheries aren't clipping a very high percent of fish.

Probably dip ins, as the locals call them.  Lots of fish bound for the Columbia and elsewhere enter the bay, especially when there is a lot of bait in the bay.

We caught two slightly colored up fish in the mud hole stretch aka the Willipa river don't think these were dip ins and also we weren't the only ones having a problems with high finners. Haveing a four fish limit is nice but when you have to release 75% of the fish you catch it will drive you nuts.  Especially when it's the most labor intense fishery in the world. Seems like every year it's more wilds and more weeds.