Meateater podcast on Mountain caribou in the Selkirks

[idaho guy]

The caribou are native, it's not made up by some "high up" forest service employee.  Hell even Theodore Roosevelt went on a hunting trip to the Idaho Selkirks to hunt caribou back in the day as has been mentioned previously on this thread.

The USFS tried to set aside a large swath of the Idaho selkirk crest as designated caribou habitat and restrict snowmobile access.  The locals threw a fit and got the designated area reduced to an area so small it doesn't matter anymore.

I agree with the comments that if we treated deer and elk like everyone is so willing to forget about the caribou we would have nothing left to hunt but rabbits.  Some early reports have sightings of caribou as far south as Moscow.
When I was in high school I used to dream that caribou would recover enough that a controlled hunt might open for them in my lifetime.  After a decade I hoped that I might at least see and photograph one in my lifetime.  Another decade and now I have little hope of that.

Me too elkslayer, I also got excited and dreamed that we could have a controlled hunt for caribou. Just seeing a caribou in Idaho would be worth the effort. I agree with all that. This is all I want other hunters to consider- extreme environmentalist  have never met an "endangered species" they didn't love and have never let a good endangered species crisis go to waste. Whether it is the spotted owl or some unique subspecies of tadpole they have locked up tons of land and did everything they can to keep man out. I am a conservationist as are almost all hunters I know. I know that man is part of nature and we belong there hunting,logging,fishing whatever but we need to be good stewards of it. Extreme environmentalist don't believe man should be in the woods doing anything other than a short nature hike making sure no one leaves approved trails. Everything I have read about the Selkirk caribou herd suggest they spend 90% of their time in Canada. The herd in Canada was in the thousands upon thousands and is something like 1500? now and they have been wiped out by guess what? Predators-wolves mainly and mountain lions. Wolves, of course, another endangered species that we had to re introduce Good luck with that and any of the herd that wanders into ne Washington. I have seen this movie before-Uh oh endangered species! lets carve out 600,000 acres with no snowmobiles. That didn't work lets not do any more logging and reclaim all roads. That didn't work will make it a wilderness area. That didn't work maybe we should close this down to hunting?I don't know? The herd spends 90% of their time in Canada and what was the last count that crossed the border? 4 I think is what I read maybe as high as 11? The work needs to be done in Canada where the Caribou live most of their lives and I think we should help in Canada if possible. What is the work? We need to kill some predators not restrict 600000 acres from some dude riding a snowmobile. By the way Teddy Roosevelt went to the Idaho territory in 1881 or 82 and what is now Sandpoint to get a pack string to take the Wild Horse trail north into British Columbia to spike camp and hunt caribou out of Kootenay Lake in CANADA!Its by Nelson a little over 2 hours drive north of Sandpoint . I also appreciate wilderness and have packed into the Frank Church with my own horses so I am not against that we just cant lock and tie up the majority of our public land. I lion hunt a lot and if you cant use your snowmobile to check tracks etc it makes the job of controlling predators signifigantly more difficult. Ironic but if they would have been successful in closing all that acreage to snowmobiles they could have actually HURT the caribou since most of what the decline has been is predator related. I also am not a rabid Preist lake snowmobiler I haven't  snowmobiled up there for over 15 years but have done it quite a bit before that. Just think about it may be another side to all this and it aint pretty!     

[idaho guy]

It's frustrating to hear how they are well on their way to extirpation and that no agency seems to care at all about it. I wish I could shove all the dead carcasses from the last caribou herd in the lower 48 in front of every wolf lover in this state and force them to realize what a garbage policy is doing to our wildlife.  end rant

As far as their historic numbers, Apparently they used to be healthy enough that Teddy Roosevelt went on a hunt for the herd out of Priest Lake, so they have had a footprint in the states before. If we took a dismissive attitude about all our extirpated animals I think most of us wouldn't be hunting today. Most of our current game species had to be saved from dangerously low numbers.

 I think it's one of the best podcasts Rinella has done yet, especially for washingtonians. The biologist is a smart guy, I would love to pick his brain. Definitely worth everyone's time to listen

Teddy Roosevelt came to Idaho territory and what is now Sandpoint to hire a pack string to take the Wild Horse trail to spike camp and hunt caribou out of Kootenay lake in CANADA!   

[idelkslayer]

Fully aware of everything you said Idaho guy, I'm actually from the same area as you although a little further north, Sandpoint.  I also disagree with the extreme environmentalist attitude of completely removing man from nature.  The fact is that man is and always has been a part of nature.  I don't want to stop all logging to save the caribou nor do I want to end snowmobiling.  Yes the majority of the caribou have always been in CANADA (thanks for the caps)  but the US side of the border used to support them in the hundreds. 

Yes most of the work will have to be done in Canada because the few caribou that are counted in Idaho only spend a portion of their time here.  But the habitat needs of caribou include old growth forest.  So while most of the work in Canada goes on killing wolves setting aside some areas from logging we would need to set aside some places from logging also so that the habitat base is there when caribou begin to recover.  Since these caribou have a survival strategy of going up in elevation during winter and feeding on lichens in old growth forests only the higher portions of the mountain need be protected and we can log to our hearts content in the lower elevations.  I don't think it will be necessary to ban snowmobiles at all if we can provide enough habitat for the caribou.

[idaho guy]

Fully aware of everything you said Idaho guy, I'm actually from the same area as you although a little further north, Sandpoint.  I also disagree with the extreme environmentalist attitude of completely removing man from nature.  The fact is that man is and always has been a part of nature.  I don't want to stop all logging to save the caribou nor do I want to end snowmobiling.  Yes the majority of the caribou have always been in CANADA (thanks for the caps)  but the US side of the border used to support them in the hundreds. 

Yes most of the work will have to be done in Canada because the few caribou that are counted in Idaho only spend a portion of their time here.  But the habitat needs of caribou include old growth forest.  So while most of the work in Canada goes on killing wolves setting aside some areas from logging we would need to set aside some places from logging also so that the habitat base is there when caribou begin to recover.  Since these caribou have a survival strategy of going up in elevation during winter and feeding on lichens in old growth forests only the higher portions of the mountain need be protected and we can log to our hearts content in the lower elevations.  I don't think it will be necessary to ban snowmobiles at all if we can provide enough habitat for the caribou.

Sound like we agree for the most part. I knew with a name like idelkslayer we would agree on a few things.  I finally listened to the podcast and it does get you excited to try and do what we can. From the podcast sounds like the habitat is already there in sufficient amounts there just isn't the animals. I do like the bio on there he had some good information and is trying his best on a tough job he has been given. I have seen them use the endangered species act to screw up so many things in the past I get real suspicious when they find a new one. I lived in northwest Montana in high school and they stopped the grizzly bear hunt we had at that time   because of the endangered species act(and the bison hunt out of the park for a while). They even shut down shooting ground squirrels and prairie dogs in parts of eastern Montana because of a black footed ferret or some kind of rodent I had never seen out there ever. They need that grizzly hunt back, anyone could buy a griz tag for I think 50 bucks but they closed the season down as soon as I think 3 were killed by any means(hit by the train coming out of the park etc). It was perfect and kept the bears afraid of man and the problem bears coming to town were the first to be taken. Now over 30 years later they are having lots of bear problems and will probably never be able to have that kind of hunt again. I would hate to have Idaho hunters jump all in on a cause the extremist could use as a weapon against us especially for an animal that spends most of their life in another country. I would love to see them back but still believe its a problem that needs to be solved in Canada and I think Idaho does serve as basically fringe habitat. We could transport 100 down here and maybe they would just go back to Canada? I don't know. I just did the caps because the hunt thing out of Priest Lake was not true and I hate when people spread bullcrap information as if it were true. Everything I know about Teddy Rooselvelts caribou hunt is what I said,maybe there was another hunt but I really doubt it. Thanks for not turning this into a fight I really want Idaho hunters to at least think about the other side of this and the potential risk