Poll- non magnifying scopes on muzzle loaders?

[Karl Blanchard]

I cant even begin to buy the bad eyes argument.   If you cant see your target you are either shooting too far or your eyes are to the point you shouldnt ve shooting a firearm in the field for the safety of the rest of us.

If you have trouble seeing sights change your sights.  There are peeps, big fibre optics, small fibre optics, iron, irons with a peep, ghost rings, etc.

We are trying to solve problems that aren't legitimate problems for a method that is meant to be a primitive form of hunting. 

[ribka]

I guess people on here want even shorter seasons now

[TONTO]

 If it is non magnifying why does it need to have glass? Never looked down one but have seen plenty of old westerns where they shoot with the long brass tubes attached. Do these have cross hairs in them?
  Primitive was ment to be primitive, it sounds like advocating for firearm restricted seasons rather than primitive. There are all ready hunts, in firearm restricted areas, where you can use glass on your muzzy and still get away from the modern rifle guys. Of course you have to deal with the shotgun/handgun guys. I have been known to hunt modern season with a recurve bow just because it is the weapon I chose to carry at the time. There is nothing stopping anybody from scoping a muzzy and hunting modern season if that is the weapon you choose for personal reasons.

[trophyhunt]

I tend to agree with what most of you guys are saying, on both sides of the discussion. I wonder if non magnifying scopes have cross hairs, isn't that just another form of a sight? Tonto brings up a good point with the old brass tubes with cross hairs, It seems like just another product and not a huge advantage or upgrade in technology.  What if a guy put thin wire on his peep sight to form an X?  Just an idea, anyway, it's been a good discussion for the most part.

[Karl Blanchard]

I tend to agree with what most of you guys are saying, on both sides of the discussion. I wonder if non magnifying scopes have cross hairs, isn't that just another form of a sight? Tonto brings up a good point with the old brass tubes with cross hairs, It seems like just another product and not a huge advantage or upgrade in technology.  What if a guy put thin wire on his peep sight to form an X?  Just an idea, anyway, it's been a good discussion for the most part.

You can get a front sight with crosshairs for a peep setup already.  Several companies make them now.  Most eotech style sights have multiple aiming point options.  Crosshairs, dots, points, etc.  They are a very accurate aiming solution and I can personally say it would extend my effective muzzy range well past what I am currently able to shoot. 

[trophyhunt]

I tend to agree with what most of you guys are saying, on both sides of the discussion. I wonder if non magnifying scopes have cross hairs, isn't that just another form of a sight? Tonto brings up a good point with the old brass tubes with cross hairs, It seems like just another product and not a huge advantage or upgrade in technology.  What if a guy put thin wire on his peep sight to form an X?  Just an idea, anyway, it's been a good discussion for the most part.

You can get a front sight with crosshairs for a peep setup already.  Several companies make them now.  Most eotech style sights have multiple aiming point options.  Crosshairs, dots, points, etc.  They are a very accurate aiming solution and I can personally say it would extend my effective muzzy range well past what I am currently able to shoot.

I didn't know that, I'll have to take a look.  Although I do like my Willams peep.

[Soady]

We are trying to solve problems that aren't legitimate problems for a method that is meant to be a primitive form of hunting.

So I'm likely to get flamed for this but it is what it is. If you can't shoot an open sighted muzzleloader because of vision issues, maybe you shouldn't be hunting with a muzzleloader. What about the guy who can't draw a bow...should he have accommodations made just because he wants to hunt the archery season or should he pick up a rifle? I don't know, and Dan-O this is not aimed at you and I don't mean to offend.
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that's just it,there is no together.hunters just cannot get together on these issues and help the entire sport.its always my group my my my.hunters group against hunter group orv against horse against hiker against boater against jet skier against bird watcher against jeeper. 

Maybe you could stick together with those of us that wish to keep it primitive.

that's just it,there is no together.hunters just cannot get together on these issues and help the entire sport.its always my group my my my.hunters group against hunter group orv against horse against hiker against boater against jet skier against bird watcher against jeeper. 

Maybe you could stick together with those of us that wish to keep it primitive.

sticking together doesn't mean following a new and self appointed leader.

Absolutely agree on all points

[Soady]

Particularly the one that Jackalope makes.

[Bob33]

What about the guy who can't draw a bow...should he have accommodations made just because he wants to hunt the archery season or should he pick up a rifle?

If he can't draw a bow due to disabilities, accommodations are made. He can use a crossbow during archery seasons. 

[Dan-o]

So I'm likely to get flamed for this but it is what it is. If you can't shoot an open sighted muzzleloader because of vision issues, maybe you shouldn't be hunting with a muzzleloader. What about the guy who can't draw a bow...should he have accommodations made just because he wants to hunt the archery season or should he pick up a rifle? I don't know, and Dan-O this is not aimed at you and I don't mean to offend.

I get it... and no offense taken....  at least at you.

I am offended that I am getting older and my eyes are starting to suck and it makes it so I can't focus open sights.   Am I allowed to be offended at my eyes???

I don't know where/how to draw the line, but I do agree you have to watch technology creep......

[Soady]

Correct, there are many ways to overcome physical limitations within in the rules of law many are written in for hunters with special needs or certifiable physical limitations. Adding a new rule where not need in a primitive season makes no sense. The rules for physical limitations are in place for each person to utilize.

To Jackalope's statement "safety is first and foremost."

I agree with you Bob if one can't see your target in a primitive season use the rules in place to overcome the physical limitations and get the permits required.

[Soady]

Agreed Dan -o! My eyes started going the same route a few years ago and now sighting gets more difficult as time rolls on. But there are ways to overcome some issues with corrective contacts or glasses which by no means cheap. Is it worth the expense?  Yes.

[Oh Mah]

Muzzleloader was meant to be a primitive weapon.  Hence the earlier season, and additional late seasons.  If a guy wants to use a scope, snag up a rifle and get to it.  And yes I LOVE muzzleloader hunting.  Like has been said multiple times before, there has to be a point where we stop the creep of technology into our primitive weapons, archery AND muzzleloader.  That's what modern firearm season is for. 

I'm all for hunters sticking together with hunters, but when there is an issue like this a guy has to stand his ground on what he feels is right.  There isn't anything wrong with that.

your right.no more compounds during regular archery season.no more drop away rest,sight pins,you see where this is going right

[Dan-o]

I've changed my mind.   

I want to put a compensated range finder and night scope on my muzzleloader.   

[Karl Blanchard]

No not really.  Nobody is advocating eliminating current advances.  Simply saying enough is enough.  Leave it where it is and all is good.  We have inlines, sabots, fibre ootics, very efficient powders, etc.  No doubt today's bow setups are far advanced as well, but when it comes down to it, both weapons are still primitive single shot weapons.  The creep has to stop somewhere.