I love wolves. Seriously.

[yakimanoob]

The great wolf debate. In my opinion and only my opinion adding an additional apex predator without any type of management plan is foolish.

I wasn't exactly looking for a debate; just curious about why the topic has gotten so cantankerous.  But for what it's worth, I totally agree that any introduction of ANY kind of animal without a well-reasoned management plan is foolish.  The same applies to plants for that matter (I come from the land of kudzu...).

[Stalkin Prey]

True but most of the time the voice of reason is seldom listened to. Far too often the squeaky wheel gets the grease. When emotions are involved the mouth tends to open and the ears close. No one is ever willing to put there pride aside and actually listen let alone hear a different opinion or perspective.


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[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

I think once you invest a good decade into learning an area and then watch the wolves come in an completely destroy it, then think of how the wolves got there...you might understand

Think of walking up on a dozen elk that were killed for sport and left to rot, then you might understand

Think of having one of your prized hound dogs youv invested years into ripped to shreds and wonder how the wolves got there and then you might start to get the idea

Think of having your income get gobbled up one calf at a time, then you might get the idea

Think of having to sell your family guiding business because the hunting just isn't there any more....

Now imagine if you got to experience all of this...how would you feel about an invasive species???

I've had bigger problems with coyotes and racoons killing my farm animals than wolves. 

Cougars and bears sometimes attack dogs yet guys keep at it.

Other hunters and poachers ruin more hunting areas than a few dogs.  If the wolves are around, then I know the elk are there.

Soubds like you've had much more experience with wolve than me

My experience is in Idaho only, but I have heard them twice in 6 years.  We had a few roaming the neighborhood this winter close to post falls and they killed some chickens.  We have lost more sheep and chickens to racoons and coyotes and neighborhood dogs than wolves. 

I'd say I spend a fair amount of time in the woods most of the year and I have not seen the infestation that most of the guys you run into talk about. 

Washington does need a management similar to Idaho and needs to be transparent on information.  Wolves and man can coexist as long as they are managed and not allowed to roam free immune to all forms of control.

[elkinrutdrivemenuts]

What's coyotes and raccoons got to do with wolves? You can shoot trap and shoot coons, you can even trap coyotes and shoot them all year long.
If a Cougar comes in and attacks your dog the WDFW will come in and kill it with little or no fuss at all, or you can shoot it yourself.  Same with bears.

Wolves not so much.

I don't​ think wolves are driving people to.idaho, it is the lack of opportunity in Washington, eastern specifically, to kill elk every year. That's why I left.

Opportunity is being curtailed in WA directly due to wolf activity and that loss of opportunity will only accelerate as the wolves get more populated.

It's been curtailed long before wolves were even present.  Seasons being shortened and antler restrictions curtailed opportunity.  Who wants to chase spikes for a week?

[yakimanoob]

Who wants to chase spikes for a week?

I'll do it!   

[kentrek]

I think once you invest a good decade into learning an area and then watch the wolves come in an completely destroy it, then think of how the wolves got there...you might understand

Think of walking up on a dozen elk that were killed for sport and left to rot, then you might understand

Think of having one of your prized hound dogs youv invested years into ripped to shreds and wonder how the wolves got there and then you might start to get the idea

Think of having your income get gobbled up one calf at a time, then you might get the idea

Think of having to sell your family guiding business because the hunting just isn't there any more....

Now imagine if you got to experience all of this...how would you feel about an invasive species???

I've had bigger problems with coyotes and racoons killing my farm animals than wolves. 

Cougars and bears sometimes attack dogs yet guys keep at it.

Other hunters and poachers ruin more hunting areas than a few dogs.  If the wolves are around, then I know the elk are there.

Soubds like you've had much more experience with wolve than me

My experience is in Idaho only, but I have heard them twice in 6 years. 

 

[buglebrush]

According to some of the logic on this thread:  jihadists must be harmless, because they haven't affected me personally. 
 

[WapitiTalk1]

According to some of the logic on this thread:  jihadists must be harmless, because they haven't injected me personally. 
 

I like your slant/analogy mister. It's time for everybody to wake up........

[ribka]

Having lived in Louisiana and Georgia am familiar with the spread of kudzu

Imagine the usfws started introducing kudzu into areas that were not yet affected or had it spread under control.

Then apply that same voice of reasoning to the wolf being introduced into Montana Idaho Washington and Oregon Wyoming Wisconsin Minnesota.

Wolves are symbolic of the polarization or value differences between rural and urban communities in this country - and to a larger extent what control the federal government should/should not have in the West. 

So...all the drama about wolves is part of a much larger debate/disagreement than it is about wolves themselves.

There are extremists on all sides of wolf issues...they all lie, distort the truth, and selectively use information to push their agenda.  As usual, the truth lies somewhere in the middle...but its not always easy to hear it over the screeching from extremists on both sides of wolf issues. 

A voice of reason!  Thanks idahohuntr!  Not enough of this on these emotional issues.

[yakimanoob]

According to some of the logic on this thread:  jihadists must be harmless, because they haven't injected me personally. 
 

I like your slant/analogy mister. It's time for everybody to wake up........

Unless I missed something, no one here is arguing that wolves are harmless, much less harmless because they haven't been personally affected. 

No sense tearing down the straw man...

[T Pearce]

Can't blame the wolf....blame the mgmt!


In a state that does a horrible job of predator management (coyotes, bears, cougar, sea lions, pelicans, cormorants, hawks, etc) we didn't need to add another apex predator.  (I realize some of the predators I mentioned are very protected). 

Let me say it this way....

Farmers grow crops.  They protect them, care for them and then EAT them.  They don't want the bugs to eat the crop or they don't get any.  They don't eat all of it because they need seed for future years.  Management decided to add bugs and tell me that they are good for me and I should be enjoying watching my wormy field and I shouldn't be eating my crop anyway.  Or that the bugs will make my crop healthier.

This concept makes people like myself angry.  Mostly because the bugs don't care for, manage or protect the crop we all love.

Gringo

well said.

[cbond3318]

Wow, wolves and Jihadists in the same discussion .

We've come so far. 

[flatbkman]

What's going to happen with the wolves managed by the WDFW? I wouldn't have the slightest idea. But if they screw it up as much as they have the fisheries or the grouse, or the mule, whitetail, and black tail deer, the moose the caribou, the cougar and bear, in this state, we don't have much to worry about.

[WapitiTalk1]

What's going to happen with the wolves managed by the WDFW? I wouldn't have the slightest idea. But if they screw it up as much as they have the fisheries or the grouse, or the mule, whitetail, and black tail deer, the moose the caribou, the cougar and bear, in this state, we don't have much to worry about.

They'll be given equal rights, and possibly, a bike lane toof their own. Just wait :0.

[EmeraldBullet]

What you're missing is---> Wolves make it much harder to kill elk from the road...mic drop.

Yeah that pretty much sums it up.