Any luck with Blackhorn 209

[Mallardmasher]

I was wondering if anyone was having any luck with Blackhorn, out of Western legal Muzzle loaders. I have the CVA Accura, and it shoots triple seven powder or pellets 100% of the time, and it also states only for use with 209 primers. Does BH require much more heat the T7 pellets to ignite.
Also T7 says you can use a little BP as an igniter, sorta like Paradex does. Can this be done with BH. I have not tried it on T7, as I get it to go every time. But my flash hole is has also been drilled out .032, so I think that helped. With no noticeable blowback or loss of proformance.
Thanks in advance

[reelamin]

I ran a couple pounds of BH209 through my Bighorn with #11 caps during load development.  I just dropped a duplex load of 4gr of 3f T7 down first followed by BH209.  Worked perfectly and never once a hint of a misfire.  I did find that at mid to max loads it was blowing pieces of cap back in my face and arms.   Sabotloader said the pressure curve was totally different....and after going to all 3F T7 he was correct.  Yes I gained some minimal velocity and better accuracy shot after shot after shot after shot.   

When I compared overall accuracy and velocity to all 3F T7 loads it wasnt worth the danger to my face, eyes, and body parts from the flying debris.  Now the 3F T3 is a pain to swab and keep up on for best accuracy and loading ability compared to BH209 make no mistake.  Lets not forget the cost of BH209 is stupidly expensive....I'm done with it for now and sticking with the Triple 7's. 

[Mallardmasher]

did your ML you where using with the #11 caps have a closed breech, I would think even with the longer curve, from what I have researched it creates less pressure then Triple 7, So I would think T7 would have more blow back. But It is only my guess. Thanks for your reply

[reelamin]

Not closed...Wa legal.   Not sure about what one creates more peak pressure.  There is a huge difference in the "Pressure Curve" and the blow back through the nipple us substantially more and very noticeable with BH209.  Not one gun is exactly the same as another.   I would suggest you go buy some BH209 and give it a try. 

I did not try BH209 with just Mag 11 caps with no kicker charge.   I believe I could have gotten perfect ignition with even as low as 2gr of T7.   I made the switch and based on the actual ballistics (Chronographed velocity, Accuracy, Ballistic Chart), cost savings (not time), and less shrapnel for my rifle.   I literally was planning on wearing safety glasses while hunting the particulate hitting me in the face was that bad with anything more than a minimal load. 

This is my first muzzle loader and we did not draw a multi-season tag so I wont be hunting with it.   I have a lot more testing and work to do.  I absolutely love the BH209 for multiple shots and ease of loading after the first shot.  When I go to the range shooting 50-100 practice rounds is common, and at $35lb v $22 a lb with sabots....its very expensive even shooting HC pistol bullets.   

I guess I could use T7 and the pain in rear loading at the range and use BH209 for hunting.   I just stopped working with it after I finished the second can...still have more on the shelf.  It is Salmon season and I shoot very very little July until Mid Sept., so I will get more time and testing in on the muzzle loader this fall and winter.   I checked the thread I was posting in and it doesn't look like I posted up the velocities of BH209.   Happy to post them up here or in another thread if it's wanted.   

Here is some good info that may help you or may not.   You would need it to compare the BH209 loads to anyway...at least for my gun.   I have a couple more to load for, but as I said that will happen this winter when I have more time.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,212467.0.html

[floatinghat]

Might want to consider looking at that $$$/LB again, BH comes in 10 oz containers so the cost is closer to $58 / LB.  I shoor 3F T7 and have considered duplexing a number of years.  For me the real issue is the extra 15 of so seconds if a follow up shot is required to duplex your reload in the field. 

[Mallardmasher]

My local store has it for 38.00 bucks a jug, I was just wondering. I will probably stick with the two T7 magnum pellets, my groups are great, being 2" high at 100yds. With a TMZ 290gr. Was just thinking about the cleanliness for follow up shots, and how it is not as effected by dampness. Target below is a three shot 100yrd group, the pic is rotated. I am happy with the groups, just looking for something better for our damp climate I guess.
Thanks

[Sabotloader]

did your ML you where using with the #11 caps have a closed breech, I would think even with the longer curve, from what I have researched it creates less pressure then Triple 7, So I would think T7 would have more blow back. But It is only my guess. Thanks for your reply

BH-209 creates less PEAK pressure but does increase more total pressure.. BH is a smokeless progressive burning powder engineered to mimic the operation of the best black powders.  It does have Sulphur and Potassium added to it so it can be corrosive, not any near as corrosive as real BP or the Pyros.  The thing that set it aside from other is the 'progressive burning' aspect of the powder but that same trait can be another problem when shooting heavy bullets.  As the weight of the bullet increases the peak pressure of BH rises using heavy bullet could cause a real high 'Peak' which could be really bad for some muzzleloaders.  If you intend to use a heavy bullet refer to the Western Powders web site for load information.

Since BH is a smokeless powder it does take a much more intense heat source to gain ignition - once it is ignited it also requires pressure to continue burning so if your projectile load leaks gas or the blowback pressure through the breech is get enough then ignition can suffer or even stop.  Percussion caps, either Musket or #11, and even the hottest German caps, do not produce enough heat and/or pressure to reliably ignite BH. 

Duplexing will allow you a way to get successful ignition, but since you are using a cap, in non-closed breech, it will still not allow for the optimal burn of BH.  Decreased pressure, lower velocity, will likely be the result.

Most people make the switch to BH for convenience in that it reduces the patching efforts.  I would suggest to you if your bore and the pores in your bore are clear of any Teflon and petroleum based products - using T7 with a cap will create a very clean burn and patching will be reduced to a small worry.  I can go a whole range session and never run a patch.

[MountainDevil54]

Years ago, when BH209 was just 2 years old I got the green light to use a 5 grain booster charge of Pyrodex under the nipple of a CVA Hawken sidelock. Excellent accuracy, instant ignition, consistent velocity. It just didn't make sense to duplex the load under a hunting situation, so Real Goex powder it was for the Hawken rifles.

You CAN use that small 5-10gr Pyrodex, Goex, T7 load under the BH209 and it will shoot accurate and be reliable.

[Mallardmasher]

Thank you all, I think the info you supplied will keep me from wanting, and be content with the T7. Like mentioned above, I have great results with T7, just always looking for something better. Good luck to all and thanks.