Should 209 primers be legal?

[Sabotloader]

What about those who prefer the length of the Muzzleloader Season as it stands and are willing to put up with caps as a fair trade off.  What WDFW has come right out and said is that they expect harvest rates to increase and that in response Season length will be adjust to reflect that dynamic.

For some it is not about about keeping the sport of hunting pure and fair chase. Its about killing as many animals as possible with the best season with total disregard as to the remaining animal population. Modifying "primitive weapons" until they are modern weapons should result in everyone hunting the same season with a lot less animals. Look how many ML's want to put scopes on their weapons. Enjoy what you have because it isn't going to get any better especially when you improve the weapon's lethality.

But as it has been pointed out before in this thread - it is not a 'primitive season' any longer they are 'muzzleloding seasons' created by Fish and Game for 'controlled game management seasons'

And as other have presented even archery has long ago surpassed the 'primitive season' moniker with the equipment they are using.  And actually it is a much more humane season for the animals than it has been in the past.  And in those regards Washington is far ahead of the other PacNorWest States - so congrats to Washington

 

[j_h_nimrod]

I have to disagree with Bobcat, this does divide us. Too many people think that because they choose to hunt modern within a bow that we all should and that the rest of us are not proficient in hunting and should just stay home; they are better and lesser mortals need not apply.  Since we don't have multiple "properties" to hunt and would rather use a muzzleloader, or slug gun, or rifle does not make us inferior.

The 209 primer makes much less difference than many on here seem to believe. How many animals are missed annually because of a failure to fire in a MZ?  I would venture it is much less than 1%. Who with a negative bent can really give a f^<& about such a small increase in safety and reliability?  What have you uber mz hunters learned about protecting a cap that really means anything?  How many areas in the state would benefit from an increased reliability in wet conditions?  As many have said, the addition of 209 priming will not change the fundamental difficulty of MZ season. A solid 2/3 of the MZ areas will have no benefit aside from choice in ignition system.

The Muzzelloader season is the most restrictive season by a wide margin. Archery has pretty much free rein as long as it is not electronic and modern has very little restrictions. The main difficulties in MZ hunting are not going to be lessened by the addition of a 209 primer.

For background, I have not actually participated in MZ season though I have had the opportunity twice with a multi season tag. Both times I have taken my deer with a bow so a 209 priming system had no bearing on my hunting. In the future I would probably switch my rifle back over to 209 priming for no other reason then my rifle is easier to prime with a 209 then a cap.

[JimmyHoffa]

why not just hunt Modern Season.

Because it's about some people trying to stop others from doing things they don't like, no matter what the consequences.

What about those who prefer the length of the Muzzleloader Season as it stands and are willing to put up with caps as a fair trade off.  What WDFW has come right out and said is that they expect harvest rates to increase and that in response Season length will be adjust to reflect that dynamic.

I am not sure why you feel that the use of 209 will result in a greater harvest.  If you a seasoned cap hunter you really do not have any problems with ignition. So the belief that a 209 might save you from misfires or no-fires is probably not a significant factor.

I feel season dates, weather, available units, and open sights are the greater factors in determining harvest totals.

I don't think it is really about the seasoned muzzy hunter that knows how to keep the #11 dry.  Even those guys have the occasional misfire/hangfire.  Part of it is people want to hunt in a season that still has unpressured, legal animals running around and they want to climb over stumps, cross creeks, walk through wet reprod and ferns and not have to wonder the whole time if the gun will go boom or not.
For the argument about making it more humane, then 209 and scopes should be allowed.....and scoped crossbows should be in archery.   

[JDHasty]

why not just hunt Modern Season.

Because it's about some people trying to stop others from doing things they don't like, no matter what the consequences.

What about those who prefer the length of the Muzzleloader Season as it stands and are willing to put up with caps as a fair trade off.  What WDFW has come right out and said is that they expect harvest rates to increase and that in response Season length will be adjust to reflect that dynamic.

I am not sure why you feel that the use of 209 will result in a greater harvest.  If you a seasoned cap hunter you really do not have any problems with ignition. So the belief that a 209 might save you from misfires or no-fires is probably not a significant factor.

I feel season dates, weather, available units, and open sights are the greater factors in determining harvest totals.

I don't think it is really about the seasoned muzzy hunter that knows how to keep the #11 dry.  Even those guys have the occasional misfire/hangfire.  Part of it is people want to hunt in a season that still has unpressured, legal animals running around and they want to climb over stumps, cross creeks, walk through wet reprod and ferns and not have to wonder the whole time if the gun will go boom or not.
For the argument about making it more humane, then 209 and scopes should be allowed.....and scoped crossbows should be in archery.   

And at that point Archery and Muzzleloading would incrementally be shortened until ultimately they are close to the same length as Modern Firearms Season.   This is not my pie in the sky prognostication, it is what WDFW has said. 

[JL]

I voted no. Dead set against that type of encroachment. Totallly agree, we get shafted season-wise. Respectfully disagree w/ far more accomplished MZLDRS on 209's based on what I've seen in other states. Don't support the 209's.

[JL]

And 95% of ML's are just driving around in trucks w/ dry and capped stuff anyway... This vote should go to the people that actually hunt. If they really did, the seasons would be more inline with Archery. WDFW isn't stupid in this regard, and neither are we.

[Sabotloader]

Would part of the reason that ML hunters might have a shorter season be the fact that if you are a true ML hunter you can hunt the regular season also - so actually you can get a double season with you ML?

I throw that out there - but I actually do not know what the Washington seasons are.

I guess I should really ask, can you hunt a regular season deer hunt with a ML and then also hunt the ML season? 

My son-in-law hunts Washington and it seems his rifle season are really short also.

[JimmyHoffa]

Would part of the reason that ML hunters might have a shorter season be the fact that if you are a true ML hunter you can hunt the regular season also - so actually you can get a double season with you ML?

I throw that out there - but I actually do not know what the Washington seasons are.

I guess I should really ask, can you hunt a regular season deer hunt with a ML and then also hunt the ML season? 

My son-in-law hunts Washington and it seems his rifle season are really short also.

You can't hunt both without a multiseason tag.  For elk it is draw only, and success is about once every seven or eight years to get one.  We get two muzzleloader seasons--early and late.  The early one is a week long and is in early October, some years starting Oct 1 (which many folks consider about as close to prime elk rut as anybody gets with a general season).  The late season is about three and a half weeks long in late Nov-mid Dec.  Late season usually has only a few units open, lots of weather events.  The early is usually pretty pleasant weather and has lots of units open.  The rifle season is early Nov for 12 days.

[JimmyHoffa]

Some more background on the seasons here... a few years ago WDFW made a couple significant changes 1-opening up a bunch more early muzzleloader units and 2-letting archery gear be used in muzzleloader seasons/units.  Before the additional units, muzzleloader was super crowded.  People joke about the pumpkin patch for modern, but modern paled in comparison to early muzzy.  It was unreal how many people were crammed into the few open units--cars, bikes, people on foot.  So, now they are spread out into the other units.  Still kind of busy in the areas with the bigger cow herds.  The late season seems to have actually picked up a lot more people from the archery rule change.  Before the new early units, I was seeing lots more hunter traffic rolling into the handful of late units.  It probably went up at least three fold.  Now with all the new people that switched to muzzy for the additional units, there has been a whole bunch more still around for the late seasons.

[j_h_nimrod]

Would part of the reason that ML hunters might have a shorter season be the fact that if you are a true ML hunter you can hunt the regular season also - so actually you can get a double season with you ML?

I throw that out there - but I actually do not know what the Washington seasons are.

I guess I should really ask, can you hunt a regular season deer hunt with a ML and then also hunt the ML season? 

My son-in-law hunts Washington and it seems his rifle season are really short also.

You can't hunt both without a multiseason tag.  For elk it is draw only, and success is about once every seven or eight years to get one.  We get two muzzleloader seasons--early and late.  The early one is a week long and is in early October, some years starting Oct 1 (which many folks consider about as close to prime elk rut as anybody gets with a general season).  The late season is about three and a half weeks long in late Nov-mid Dec.  Late season usually has only a few units open, lots of weather events.  The early is usually pretty pleasant weather and has lots of units open.  The rifle season is early Nov for 12 days.

[JimmyHoffa]

Would part of the reason that ML hunters might have a shorter season be the fact that if you are a true ML hunter you can hunt the regular season also - so actually you can get a double season with you ML?

I throw that out there - but I actually do not know what the Washington seasons are.

I guess I should really ask, can you hunt a regular season deer hunt with a ML and then also hunt the ML season? 

My son-in-law hunts Washington and it seems his rifle season are really short also.

You can't hunt both without a multiseason tag.  For elk it is draw only, and success is about once every seven or eight years to get one.  We get two muzzleloader seasons--early and late.  The early one is a week long and is in early October, some years starting Oct 1 (which many folks consider about as close to prime elk rut as anybody gets with a general season).  The late season is about three and a half weeks long in late Nov-mid Dec.  Late season usually has only a few units open, lots of weather events.  The early is usually pretty pleasant weather and has lots of units open.  The rifle season is early Nov for 12 days.

[slowhand]

I voted Yes, I have hunted ML three seasons for elk and never had a misfire using the musket caps. I really don't think that a 209 will make even a 1% difference in success for ML hunters.  I know it would save Me from buying a ton of musket caps. I like to change them out after a 1/2 day of hunting so I know there will be no issue when the time comes to fire the gun. I save the ones I swappend out during the hunt and use them at the range. FYI still have yet to have one of the musket caps fail at the range. 
209 

[jagermiester]

I voted Yes, I have hunted ML three seasons for elk and never had a misfire using the musket caps. I really don't think that a 209 will make even a 1% difference in success for ML hunters.  I know it would save Me from buying a ton of musket caps. I like to change them out after a 1/2 day of hunting so I know there will be no issue when the time comes to fire the gun. I save the ones I swappend out during the hunt and use them at the range. FYI still have yet to have one of the musket caps fail at the range. 
209 

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Haaaaaaaaaaaaaa Haaa Haa Haaaa Ha ha Ha Ha!!!!!

Don't forget that you wrote this next time you shoot at an elk.

[Sabotloader]

I voted Yes, I have hunted ML three seasons for elk and never had a misfire using the musket caps. I really don't think that a 209 will make even a 1% difference in success for ML hunters.  I know it would save Me from buying a ton of musket caps. I like to change them out after a 1/2 day of hunting so I know there will be no issue when the time comes to fire the gun. I save the ones I swappend out during the hunt and use them at the range. FYI still have yet to have one of the musket caps fail at the range. 
209 

Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Haaaaaaaaaaaaaa Haaa Haa Haaaa Ha ha Ha Ha!!!!!

Don't forget that you wrote this next time you shoot at an elk.

I do not understand your remark...

What he has written is entirely possible and it happens - I can say the same thing only I use #11 mag caps and I do not rotate them out as he does.  I can not even remember the last time I had a failure to fire.... wait to be completely honest - I know I did a couple of time 10-12 years ago when I first started hunting with a side hammer Lyman Trade Rifle...

[jagermiester]

It's called a Jinx  (not sure on the spelling ).

I was just making a joke. Like he jinxed himself.