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Author Topic: Another Cougar Came Back  (Read 2292 times)

Offline dan11011

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Another Cougar Came Back
« on: October 23, 2017, 08:34:21 PM »
Well I wrote a story on here a month or so ago about a cougar that I shot that had killed one of our sheep. I thought this would be the end of our problems with cougars at least for a while. However, at the beginning of this month (about 2 months after the first incident) while I was away from home, another cougar came in and killed 5 sheep and our llama all in one night. It was very unlucky that I was away that night as I would have heard the commotion and at least saved some of the animals. The cougar didn't eat anything and the animals rotted quickly. He never came back and I wasn't able to shoot him. I was very distraught as I've had that llama for over 10 years.

I had a warden come out and confirm that this was also the work of a cougar. Not sure where to go from here. I plan to buy some more sheep in the Spring, but don't know how I will ever fully protect them as the cougars are abundant and seem to be happy to always jump the fence.

Here's some photos of some of the animals. It sure was a bloodbath that night.

Offline lokidog

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2017, 08:57:14 PM »
That sucks!  Losing chickens is bad enough, I can hardly imagine this.

I'm hoping to try to do some cougar hunting this winter, hopefully, I can help someone out.

Offline Special T

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2017, 08:57:59 PM »
Gotta do some predator calling this winter! That and chasing down trax in the snow!

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Offline dan11011

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2017, 09:02:02 PM »
Gotta do some predator calling this winter! That and chasing down trax in the snow!

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Never thought about trying to call the cougars on our property. Not a bad idea and what can it hurt.

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2017, 06:25:04 AM »
Maybe they'll give you a permit to use dogs. There are a couple of houndsmen on this forum that would likely love the opportunity to run their dogs.  :dunno:
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Offline Blacktail Sniper

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2017, 07:14:14 AM »
Consider putting in a claim against the state for the damages done by wildlife to your personal property?

I don't know if this would apply to large predators or just for deer & elk damages, but may be worth at least looking into.

May get some compensation for your losses that could be used for additional fence materials or other stuff that may make it safer for your critters.

Just a thought, frustrating as heck to feel like you can't turn your back for even a minute because of something like this happening.
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Offline tlbradford

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2017, 08:28:00 AM »
Have you considered a working dog like a Great Pyrenees or similar?  I am sorry for your loss.
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Offline Timberstalker

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2017, 08:58:37 AM »
Holy hell.
That's terrible.  Good luck killing that monster, and rebuilding your flock. :tup:
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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2017, 09:09:46 AM »
Have a friend with a few dogs living in his Alpaca herd... they've had lion sitting outside the pen watching, but never lost one.

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2017, 09:12:25 AM »
Have you considered a working dog like a Great Pyrenees or similar?  I am sorry for your loss.
:yeah: times 2 on the working dog. Sorry for your loss... sickening really  :(
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Offline JDHasty

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2017, 09:25:40 AM »
Works on cats too

Offline jbeaumont21

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2017, 09:35:12 AM »
From the Mountain Lion Foundation website, "guard dogs reduce predation by as much as 93%. "

https://www.mountainlion.org/portalprotectguardanimals.asp

Sorry for your loss!

Offline dan11011

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #12 on: October 24, 2017, 10:36:55 AM »
Thanks for the thoughts and input everybody.

We did have property insurance (which was separate from the state) for the sheep and would have recieved $375 a head, but the insurance didn't kick in until two days after the sheep were killed. I kid you not.  :bash:

I'm sure we could get permission to run hounds but there are a lot of other ranches and farms around and the last thing I want to do is have dogs running all over peoples properties 2 miles away just for our sake. Not only that, but they might be chasing a different cat.

The point of the llama was to be a guardian animal like a dog would be. We've had 4 llamas over the past 20 years and they all have done a good job and limited livestock loss dramatically. We've had two llamas die of old age and two killed by cougars now. I'm not against getting another one as they do a good job for the most part. We've never lost this many animals in a night while owning a llama so this really came as a surprise.

I think I will try some calling this winter, maybe even download and play some sheep sounds on my electronic call.  :dunno:

I haven't had a dog for 3 years now but maybe its time for another.


Offline jackelope

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2017, 10:43:24 AM »
My mother in law has several dairy goats and has 2 miniature donkeys running full time with them a mile from a spot I had 5 different lions on camera in 1 year. No predator losses to date to her goats. The goats and donkeys have free range of her 12 acres. She was told a donkey will stop a lion attack.

I know a guy near me who has quality, trained livestock guardian dogs and lots of llamas and alpacas and he has had repetitive lion issues over the last few years. I imagine the dogs have probably stopped some predation, but lions have killed his animals multiple times over the last few years.
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Offline Southpole

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2017, 11:14:09 AM »
My mother in law has several dairy goats and has 2 miniature donkeys running full time with them a mile from a spot I had 5 different lions on camera in 1 year. No predator losses to date to her goats. The goats and donkeys have free range of her 12 acres. She was told a donkey will stop a lion attack.

I know a guy near me who has quality, trained livestock guardian dogs and lots of llamas and alpacas and he has had repetitive lion issues over the last few years. I imagine the dogs have probably stopped some predation, but lions have killed his animals multiple times over the last few years.

Yeah, I forgot to mention a donkey/burro. Some mules are hell on predators but that's because of the donkey side of them and you don't need something that large. Do they still have those blm burro adoption programs. Maybe you can snatch up one of those  :dunno:. We have a cowboy friend that used to have a burro. He would use him for training purposes for horses that thought they were in charge. That burro would stock a horse 3 times his size and sometimes try and bite the belly out of them  :yike:, they can be nasty creatures.
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Offline dan11011

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #15 on: October 24, 2017, 11:22:55 AM »
My mother in law has several dairy goats and has 2 miniature donkeys running full time with them a mile from a spot I had 5 different lions on camera in 1 year. No predator losses to date to her goats. The goats and donkeys have free range of her 12 acres. She was told a donkey will stop a lion attack.

I know a guy near me who has quality, trained livestock guardian dogs and lots of llamas and alpacas and he has had repetitive lion issues over the last few years. I imagine the dogs have probably stopped some predation, but lions have killed his animals multiple times over the last few years.

Very interesting. I will have to look into the donkey thing. I would not be against getting one and trying that. I know they are great at protecting from coyotes. Why not lions. I also like the idea of having it always around living with the sheep and not roaming around separately like a dog.

Offline jackelope

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #16 on: October 24, 2017, 11:24:03 AM »
My mother in law has several dairy goats and has 2 miniature donkeys running full time with them a mile from a spot I had 5 different lions on camera in 1 year. No predator losses to date to her goats. The goats and donkeys have free range of her 12 acres. She was told a donkey will stop a lion attack.

I know a guy near me who has quality, trained livestock guardian dogs and lots of llamas and alpacas and he has had repetitive lion issues over the last few years. I imagine the dogs have probably stopped some predation, but lions have killed his animals multiple times over the last few years.

Yeah, I forgot to mention a donkey/burro. Some mules are hell on predators but that's because of the donkey side of them and you don't need something that large. Do they still have those blm burro adoption programs. Maybe you can snatch up one of those  :dunno:. We have a cowboy friend that used to have a burro. He would use him for training purposes for horses that thought they were in charge. That burro would stock a horse 3 times his size and sometimes try and bite the belly out of them  :yike:, they can be nasty creatures.

All these mini donkeys do is run around kicking and biting each other non-stop. They're father and son.
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Offline jackelope

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2017, 11:26:45 AM »
My mother in law has several dairy goats and has 2 miniature donkeys running full time with them a mile from a spot I had 5 different lions on camera in 1 year. No predator losses to date to her goats. The goats and donkeys have free range of her 12 acres. She was told a donkey will stop a lion attack.

I know a guy near me who has quality, trained livestock guardian dogs and lots of llamas and alpacas and he has had repetitive lion issues over the last few years. I imagine the dogs have probably stopped some predation, but lions have killed his animals multiple times over the last few years.

Very interesting. I will have to look into the donkey thing. I would not be against getting one and trying that. I know they are great at protecting from coyotes. Why not lions. I also like the idea of having it always around living with the sheep and not roaming around separately like a dog.


She was told they will kill a lion. Can't confirm or deny that, but living where she lives in the Blue Mountain Foothills, there are plenty of predators running around abd she's had -0- predator issues in 10+ years knock on wood. Her flock of guinea hens did disappear one by one at one point, but those things are dumb as a bag of hammers.
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Offline Machias

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #18 on: October 24, 2017, 11:34:32 AM »
Don't get mules for livestock protection.  They are just as likely to kill your sheep and goats.  I would not recommend a mini donkey for protection from a lion.  It will flat out kill it.  You want at least a standard donkey.  If it's a Jack, make dang sure it is fixed.  Better if you get one that has been raised around sheep and goats.  Be very careful around lambing and kidding time.  Lots of times a newborn running around crying chasing after mom has been mistaken for a predator.  Since it is new the donkey protects the mom. 
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Offline Southpole

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #19 on: October 24, 2017, 11:34:40 AM »
My mother in law has several dairy goats and has 2 miniature donkeys running full time with them a mile from a spot I had 5 different lions on camera in 1 year. No predator losses to date to her goats. The goats and donkeys have free range of her 12 acres. She was told a donkey will stop a lion attack.

I know a guy near me who has quality, trained livestock guardian dogs and lots of llamas and alpacas and he has had repetitive lion issues over the last few years. I imagine the dogs have probably stopped some predation, but lions have killed his animals multiple times over the last few years.

Yeah, I forgot to mention a donkey/burro. Some mules are hell on predators but that's because of the donkey side of them and you don't need something that large. Do they still have those blm burro adoption programs. Maybe you can snatch up one of those  :dunno:. We have a cowboy friend that used to have a burro. He would use him for training purposes for horses that thought they were in charge. That burro would stock a horse 3 times his size and sometimes try and bite the belly out of them  :yike:, they can be nasty creatures.

All these mini donkeys do is run around kicking and biting each other non-stop. They're father and son.

They're definitely not flight animals like horses, that's for sure. Years ago my husband and I decided to take a little snow ride up in the hills with his horse and my Tennessee Walker mule. We were just riding along and all of the sudden my mule drifts off to the side of the road and starts digging. Then pretty soon he drops to his knees and grabs a dead Chow dog, with his teeth, from underneath the snow. We were really weirded out by this, but we figured, that's the donkey in him. He was hell on dogs, and what ever else we didn't when we weren't around.
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Offline Timberstalker

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2017, 11:43:02 AM »
My mother in law has several dairy goats and has 2 miniature donkeys running full time with them a mile from a spot I had 5 different lions on camera in 1 year. No predator losses to date to her goats. The goats and donkeys have free range of her 12 acres. She was told a donkey will stop a lion attack.

I know a guy near me who has quality, trained livestock guardian dogs and lots of llamas and alpacas and he has had repetitive lion issues over the last few years. I imagine the dogs have probably stopped some predation, but lions have killed his animals multiple times over the last few years.

Yeah, I forgot to mention a donkey/burro. Some mules are hell on predators but that's because of the donkey side of them and you don't need something that large. Do they still have those blm burro adoption programs. Maybe you can snatch up one of those  :dunno:. We have a cowboy friend that used to have a burro. He would use him for training purposes for horses that thought they were in charge. That burro would stock a horse 3 times his size and sometimes try and bite the belly out of them  :yike:, they can be nasty creatures.

All these mini donkeys do is run around kicking and biting each other non-stop. They're father and son.

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Offline jackelope

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2017, 11:46:47 AM »
Don't get mules for livestock protection.  They are just as likely to kill your sheep and goats.  I would not recommend a mini donkey for protection from a lion.  It will flat out kill it.  You want at least a standard donkey.  If it's a Jack, make dang sure it is fixed.  Better if you get one that has been raised around sheep and goats.  Be very careful around lambing and kidding time.  Lots of times a newborn running around crying chasing after mom has been mistaken for a predator.  Since it is new the donkey protects the mom.

The ones she has are 3’ ish at the withers. Got to be 350+ pounds.






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Offline Southpole

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2017, 11:54:47 AM »
Awww, so cute.
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Offline Machias

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2017, 12:00:22 PM »
Don't get mules for livestock protection.  They are just as likely to kill your sheep and goats.  I would not recommend a mini donkey for protection from a lion.  It will flat out kill it.  You want at least a standard donkey.  If it's a Jack, make dang sure it is fixed.  Better if you get one that has been raised around sheep and goats.  Be very careful around lambing and kidding time.  Lots of times a newborn running around crying chasing after mom has been mistaken for a predator.  Since it is new the donkey protects the mom.

The ones she has are 3’ ish at the withers. Got to be 350+ pounds.






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Probably safe since there are 2.  i would not recommend a single mini.  :)  They are tough as nails and fearless, but alone would not stand much of a chance against a lion.
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Offline JDHasty

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2017, 12:01:11 PM »
A donkey will do a job on a dog that is unfamiliar w/how to handle them, but they are no match for a lion.

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2017, 12:01:42 PM »

Offline JDHasty

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2017, 12:04:02 PM »
Ya' don't screw with donkeys if you have any sense, one ripped a woman's arm off a few years ago.  I think it was up by Snoqualmie. 

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2017, 12:10:41 PM »
 :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:  Ok, didn't need to see that!!   :yike:  :chuckle:

In all seriousness, a intact Jack is a VERY dangerous animal!!!!
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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2017, 12:11:26 PM »
Uhmmmm.... What the heck was that dude doing with his pants down?  :yike:

Offline Southpole

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2017, 12:16:54 PM »
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:  Ok, didn't need to see that!!   :yike:  :chuckle:

In all seriousness, a intact Jack is a VERY dangerous animal!!!!
:yeah: :yeah: :yeah:
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Offline jackelope

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2017, 12:40:23 PM »
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:  Ok, didn't need to see that!!   :yike:  :chuckle:

In all seriousness, a intact Jack is a VERY dangerous animal!!!!

Both of my inlaws boys are gelded.
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Offline tlbradford

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2017, 04:47:39 PM »
Did you confirm it was a single lion that did the killing?  Just the killing and not feeding makes me lean towards a pair or two of juveniles.  I would be interested to hear what others think.  Especially @wacoyotehunter @bearpaw and @machias who have run hounds and seen a lot of lions.
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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2017, 05:04:09 PM »
:fire.:

" In today's instant gratification society, more and more pressure revolves around success and the measurement of one's prowess as a hunter by inches on a score chart or field photos produced on social media. Don't fall into the trap. Hunting is-and always will be- about the hunt, the adventure, the views, and time spent with close friends and family. " Ryan Hatfield

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Offline bearbaito6

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2017, 05:44:51 PM »
I would look into filing a lawsuit against the  state. It's not your fault the state voted out proper management.  If more people  would do this , maybe they would figure out a way to bring some management back into the hands of hunters..

Offline Southpole

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2017, 07:31:14 PM »
I was also thinking a pair at work  :dunno:
$5 is a lot of money if you ain't got it

Offline WAcoyotehunter

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #35 on: October 25, 2017, 08:04:50 AM »
one llama is not enough to keep lions from attacking.  They generally end up getting killed.

I chased a sheep killing cat up on Eloika rd this weekend, but pulled the dogs after it started raining and we were not moving the track.  That cat (probably) got shot by a homeowner on Monday while killing chickens.  Hopefully that was the culprit.


Offline Machias

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #36 on: October 25, 2017, 10:41:07 AM »
Did you confirm it was a single lion that did the killing?  Just the killing and not feeding makes me lean towards a pair or two of juveniles.  I would be interested to hear what others think.  Especially @wacoyotehunter @bearpaw and @machias who have run hounds and seen a lot of lions.

When I read the post with the llama and several sheep and that it was a confirmed cat kill,  I immediately thought more than one cat.  But you'd have to look at the sign around the kill sites to confirm it.
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Offline Gringo31

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #37 on: October 25, 2017, 10:56:41 AM »
I have a beagle that you could try for a bit.  It would be horrible if the cat got her.   :chuckle:


The downside of a donkey is that they can be NOISY!  The one I had was a mammoth jack and even tho I didn't have many neighbors, and they weren't that close to me......They noticed.

If I were you I'd play with some fairly "unwanted" critters, rescue types and see what happens.  That way you don't have a lot to really lose.
We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.
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Offline Machias

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2017, 01:35:18 PM »
The downside of a donkey is that they can be NOISY!  The one I had was a mammoth jack and even tho I didn't have many neighbors, and they weren't that close to me......They noticed.

One of my favorite sounds!!!  Loved it every time I would walk outside my Jack would say Hi.  :)
Fred Moyer


History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.

Offline Gringo31

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2017, 04:11:13 PM »
I liked how much it pissed off the wife  :)
We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.
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Offline Southpole

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2017, 06:17:14 PM »
The downside of a donkey is that they can be NOISY!  The one I had was a mammoth jack and even tho I didn't have many neighbors, and they weren't that close to me......They noticed.

One of my favorite sounds!!!  Loved it every time I would walk outside my Jack would say Hi.  :)
I have always loved the singing! Mules/donkeys have always put a smile on my face everyday, they're clowns.
$5 is a lot of money if you ain't got it

Offline Machias

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #41 on: October 25, 2017, 09:02:04 PM »
Mountain Canaries
Fred Moyer


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Offline bearpaw

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2017, 12:30:49 PM »
Did you confirm it was a single lion that did the killing?  Just the killing and not feeding makes me lean towards a pair or two of juveniles.  I would be interested to hear what others think.  Especially @WAcoyotehunter @bearpaw and @Machias who have run hounds and seen a lot of lions.

It's not at all unusual for 1 lion to kill multiple sheep or goats. It's like turning a house cat loose on a family of mice, they can't stop, they will likely kill every mouse they see, same with sheep and goats and lions.
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Offline Machias

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2017, 12:39:45 PM »
Did you confirm it was a single lion that did the killing?  Just the killing and not feeding makes me lean towards a pair or two of juveniles.  I would be interested to hear what others think.  Especially @WAcoyotehunter @bearpaw and @Machias who have run hounds and seen a lot of lions.

It's not at all unusual for 1 lion to kill multiple sheep or goats. It's like turning a house cat loose on a family of mice, they can't stop, they will likely kill every mouse they see, same with sheep and goats and lions.

Good to know, I had not run across it so far.  Thanks!
Fred Moyer


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Offline dan11011

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2017, 03:17:57 PM »
Thanks Dale. That's what I was thinking as well. That in the excitement of things, it chased down each and every animal. I'm sure it feels like a game to the lion.

Offline Southpole

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Re: Another Cougar Came Back
« Reply #45 on: October 26, 2017, 03:38:01 PM »
Did you confirm it was a single lion that did the killing?  Just the killing and not feeding makes me lean towards a pair or two of juveniles.  I would be interested to hear what others think.  Especially @WAcoyotehunter @bearpaw and @Machias who have run hounds and seen a lot of lions.

It's not at all unusual for 1 lion to kill multiple sheep or goats. It's like turning a house cat loose on a family of mice, they can't stop, they will likely kill every mouse they see, same with sheep and goats and lions.
Is that more common to a younger cat honing his skills by killing like it's still a game?
$5 is a lot of money if you ain't got it

 

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