Zinke: Too Many People Enter Federal Lands for Free

[bigtex]

Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke says free or discounted passes given to senior citizens, active military, disabled, and even 4-year-olds and their families are part of the reason for the National Park Service's funding problems.

During an at times contentious appearance before the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, the secretary, explaining why he's considering a surge pricing system for 17 national parks, said parks are losing too much money to those pass programs.

"I've spent a lot of time in a (park) kiosk, and it's amazing, in our parks, which the maintenance (backlog) as you know, we're far behind," the secretary told the committee Tuesday while explaining the Trump administration's FY2019 budget proposal for the Interior Department. "But when you give discounted or free passes to elderly, fourth-graders, veterans, disabled, and you do it by the carload, there's not a whole lot of people that actually pay at our front door.

"As well as you have a lot of foreign guests," he added. "We're looking at ways to make sure we have more revenue in the front door of our parks themselves. Because when you have a park like (Mount) Rainier, the money they receive coming in the front gate, I want to make sure more of it goes to that park superintendent so he has flexibility in how he spends it."

Under current pass programs, senior citizens 62 and older can purchase a lifetime pass to the parks for $80 (the fee had been $10 until it increased last year), fourth-grade students can receive a free pass through the Every Kid in a Park program started by the Obama administration, active military and their dependents gain free passes, and U.S. citizens who are permanently disabled receive free passes.

While Secretary Zinke said too much of entrance fee revenues go back to Washington, D.C., under current regulations 80 percent of the fees collected in a park stay there, while the other 20 percent is sent to Washington to be redistributed to other areas, including to parks that do not collect entrance fees.

He did acknowledge that park fees alone won't significantly address the park system's $11.7 billion maintenance backlog.

"But a lot of our parks have record visitation," he said. "We expect them to have record visitation again."

Under questioning from Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Washington, Secretary Zinke said he wasn't suggesting that the free entry given to military, seniors, and fourth-graders should be done away with.

"No, what I'm saying is this: We subsidize and we allow, by design, a lot of people to go through. If you're in a car and you have a veteran in the car, everyone, whether they're a veteran or not, is free in that car," said Secretary Zinke. "Same thing with disabled, same thing with elderly, on passes. Basically, one person with a pass, everyone in that car comes in for free. Whether or not that's correct, we're looking at it."

Secretary Zinke added that the $80 America the Beautiful parks pass, which allows holders to enter parks as many times as they want for a one-year period, is an incredible bargain, telling the committee that he took his family to a movie the other night and that the bill, which included popcorn, came to more than $80.

He said that his staff's review of park fee structures is designed to "make sure that revenue coming into the door of our principal parks is appropriate, making sure that we still have value. Because American parks belong to the public, they belong to all Americans, and everyone should have access."

"We definitely believe we should be increasing access, not disincentivizing it," responded Sen. Cantwell.

https://www.nationalparkstraveler.org/2018/03/zinke-4-year-olds-seniors-disabled-and-veterans-prompting-higher-park-entrance-fees

[olyguy79]

Not a surprise. Zinke's been a big proponent of increasing access fees across federal lands under DOI.

[Stein]

I guess a guy can either complain that the roads aren't developed and maintained or you can complain about the price, but not both.

For what it is worth, if we are going to discuss recreational access fees, we may also want to look at the current grazing fees. 

[bigtex]

For what it is worth, if we are going to discuss recreational access fees, we may also want to look at the current grazing fees. 

I agree. The fed rates went down again this year and haven't had a significant increase since the 1960s.

[timberfaller]

psssst Zinke,  get back to logging and mining so the department can generate some revenue instead of expenses!!  But then he'd be in court battling out with the Eco-freaks and Democrats!!  OH Wait,  that is what has been happening for decades now THAT IS where all their money has GONE!!!  silly me!

[WAcoyotehunter]

psssst Zinke,  get back to logging and mining so the department can generate some revenue instead of expenses!!  But then he'd be in court battling out with the Eco-freaks and Democrats!!  OH Wait,  that is what has been happening for decades now THAT IS where all their money has GONE!!!  silly me!

How much should a permit to log on public land cost? 

[timberfaller]

How much?  Nothing!

Timber sales where "contracted" purchased from USFS for said amount for said amount of board feet removed.  Worked great until the Spotted Owl and Salmon came along,  or was that the tree huggers???

Back when the "system" worked, access to public land WAS FREE and the USFS/BLM was flowing in $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Hummmmmm wonder what happened?

[WAcoyotehunter]

How much?  Nothing!

Timber sales where "contracted" purchased from USFS for said amount for said amount of board feet removed.  Worked great until the Spotted Owl and Salmon came along,  or was that the tree huggers???

Back when the "system" worked, access to public land WAS FREE and the USFS/BLM was flowing in $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Ok- that's still the way they work, right?  The timber co bids on the sale according to the BF removed, and the FS gets the money from the sale, but has to pay for NEPA, EA, and different improvements- i.e roads, culverts ect...

In NE Washington there are sales that the log buyer does NEPA as part of the contract.  The project is called "A to Z" and it's a pretty great idea, since the FS takes forever for permitting. 

Anyways- I don't think logging and mining is the problem (and certainly not the solution) for National Park Service budget shortfalls.  Charging at the door is not the answer either... in my opinion it should be funded by congress. 

[Blacktail Sniper]

How much?  Nothing!

Timber sales where "contracted" purchased from USFS for said amount for said amount of board feet removed.  Worked great until the Spotted Owl and Salmon came along,  or was that the tree huggers???

Back when the "system" worked, access to public land WAS FREE and the USFS/BLM was flowing in $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Ok- that's still the way they work, right?  The timber co bids on the sale according to the BF removed, and the FS gets the money from the sale, but has to pay for NEPA, EA, and different improvements- i.e roads, culverts ect...

In NE Washington there are sales that the log buyer does NEPA as part of the contract.  The project is called "A to Z" and it's a pretty great idea, since the FS takes forever for permitting. 

Anyways- I don't think logging and mining is the problem (and certainly not the solution) for National Park Service budget shortfalls.  Charging at the door is not the answer either... in my opinion it should be funded by congress.

That may well be the best way then, paid for by everyone who pays taxes, regardless of whether they utilize it or not.   

[Special T]

@logger has plenty of experience with the massive limitations on logging federal land. If DNT here in Washington can find a way to make $ & pay for infrastructure why can't the USFS do it?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Calvin Rayborn]

Time to decrease these Jackdaw's pocket books! 

[WAcoyotehunter]

@logger has plenty of experience with the massive limitations on logging federal land. If DNT here in Washington can find a way to make $ & pay for infrastructure why can't the USFS do it?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

. If DNT here in Washington can find a way to make $ & pay for infrastructure

[/quote]
DNR has a different mission, they are required to.make money.  USFS is a multiple use agency, they don't need to make money, nor should they be expected to.  Their job is to manage the forest for the benefit of the people of our country. 

How much would a grazing lease cost if the goal was to make money???

[Stein]

How much?  Nothing!

Timber sales where "contracted" purchased from USFS for said amount for said amount of board feet removed.  Worked great until the Spotted Owl and Salmon came along,  or was that the tree huggers???

Back when the "system" worked, access to public land WAS FREE and the USFS/BLM was flowing in $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Ok- that's still the way they work, right?  The timber co bids on the sale according to the BF removed, and the FS gets the money from the sale, but has to pay for NEPA, EA, and different improvements- i.e roads, culverts ect...

In NE Washington there are sales that the log buyer does NEPA as part of the contract.  The project is called "A to Z" and it's a pretty great idea, since the FS takes forever for permitting. 

Anyways- I don't think logging and mining is the problem (and certainly not the solution) for National Park Service budget shortfalls.  Charging at the door is not the answer either... in my opinion it should be funded by congress.

That may well be the best way then, paid for by everyone who pays taxes, regardless of whether they utilize it or not.

I would agree with this (at both the federal and state level).  Public lands are a possession of the public and have a certain cost to maintain that should be paid for by the public.  It's part of the cost of being a citizen of the country and each can choose to use it or not.

[Okanagan]

How much?  Nothing!

Timber sales where "contracted" purchased from USFS for said amount for said amount of board feet removed.  Worked great until the Spotted Owl and Salmon came along,  or was that the tree huggers???

Back when the "system" worked, access to public land WAS FREE and the USFS/BLM was flowing in $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Ok- that's still the way they work, right?  The timber co bids on the sale according to the BF removed, and the FS gets the money from the sale, but has to pay for NEPA, EA, and different improvements- i.e roads, culverts ect...

In NE Washington there are sales that the log buyer does NEPA as part of the contract.  The project is called "A to Z" and it's a pretty great idea, since the FS takes forever for permitting. 

Anyways- I don't think logging and mining is the problem (and certainly not the solution) for National Park Service budget shortfalls.  Charging at the door is not the answer either... in my opinion it should be funded by congress.

That may well be the best way then, paid for by everyone who pays taxes, regardless of whether they utilize it or not.

I would agree with this (at both the federal and state level).  Public lands are a possession of the public and have a certain cost to maintain that should be paid for by the public.  It's part of the cost of being a citizen of the country and each can choose to use it or not.

+ one more.  Public land is public, costs paid by all taxpayers who all "own" it as citizens. 

[Special T]

@logger has plenty of experience with the massive limitations on logging federal land. If DNT here in Washington can find a way to make $ & pay for infrastructure why can't the USFS do it?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

. If DNT here in Washington can find a way to make $ & pay for infrastructure

DNR has a different mission, they are required to.make money.  USFS is a multiple use agency, they don't need to make money, nor should they be expected to.  Their job is to manage the forest for the benefit of the people of our country. 

How much would a grazing lease cost if the goal was to make money???
[/quote]The USFS wouldn't have a budget problem if they actually logged. Yes DNR has a different mandate which is to raise $ for schools and municipalities. Roads get maintained because revenue comes from logging. Has there been over logging in the past? Yes, but now we are over compensating and not cutting enough.

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