Bow season vs other seasons

[Oh Mah]

I tried.Anyway's since it keeps happening i'm gonna take this opportunity to explain my nick name "Oh Mah" It is a native name given to the Bigfoot.It means Boss of the wood's.I am quite a hairy man. 

[Skyvalhunter]

Good intel there Hairy man

[boneaddict]

I consider it wildlife management.  If it’s warranted for the good of the herd it needs to be done.  I usually have a problem if they cut opportunity because of another agenda (wolves) or not dealing with outdated contracts with other nations.(natives). As for user groups if you think someone has more opportunity than you, have at it.  Be a more diversified hunter.   

[Matth]

    User group against user group is always a fail!

Vast majority of people upset about this are not mad at the hunters of other weapon choices but the decision made by wdfw so let's not get those lines blurred. 

If you want to say your gonna hunt another state like its gonna bother other hunters or something you are wrong.There was a time that archery was tougher than it is now were you complainers archery hunting back when it was re-curve bows.I can honestly say that my presence in the woods early elk archery has made it harder for all user groups for the rest of the season as far as the local elk go. IF YOU ARE ALLOWED TO HUNT MODERN OR MUZZY AND YOU DONT LIKE THE CHANGE FOR WHATEVER REASON SWITCH UP A LITTLE. 

If we go back to recurves then make modern go back to single power or even open sights. That argument is lame. Archery has progressed but so has modern firearm technology. Give me a break.

I 100% agree! MOST people archery hunting with current compound bows are still not taking shots at game beyond 70 yards. There are the few that do... some actually know how to do it and the others aren't ethical hunters. So lets figure this out. 70 yards with a compound. I know people who can hit targets all day at 55-60 yards with a recurve or longbow. so the compound gained 10-15 yards over the recurve realistically speaking. That's a 17% increase in range. Now lets look at modern firearms. The average old style hunting rifle with a fixed power scope or iron sights was good for hunting 150-200 yards, yes I know that some took longer shots with the sharps and such but a lot of those were wounding shots and not kill shots. Modern rifles with variable power scopes are EASILY capable of 300-400 yard shots and that's without any real effort. If a person puts in their time at the range then we can easily approach 600-1,000 yard shots, but I won't factor that into this. For the math lets go with the 200 yards for the old rifles and 300 for the new. That's a 50% increase in range. If we go to 400 yards that's 100% increase in range. For some of us that shoot further and are comfortable with it then that percentage goes up exponentially. Same goes for modern muzzle loaders. A few people back in the day could boast clean shots of 100 yards or slightly further. Most would shoot 50-80 yards. Now you can push a modern muzzy out to 150-200 yards pretty easily even with iron sights. For the math lets say 75 yards was average back in the day and 150 is with todays modern muzzle loaders. That's a 100% increase in range. So basically... modern firearms and muzzle loaders have pushed WELL beyond what archery equipment is capable of in todays hunting scenarios! Hell with modern firearms you don't have to be anywhere close to an elk to kill it. I personally can place a hand loaded 200 gr barnes tsx on a 13"x13" board at 630 yards first shot cold bore from my 300 wby mag. With my compound bow I can hit a target at 60 yards comfortably. I would never take a shot at an elk beyond 60 yards with my bow but anything inside of 600 with my rifle is dead. Do you all get where I am coming from with this? Basically you have an advantage of being first in the woods as archery, yes, no arguing that. You also have an advantage of using a muzzle loader or a modern firearm because you don't have to get NEARLY as close to your target as the archery hunter! I'm not saying all of this to divide us. I'm saying all of this to get you all to think about the hunting methods available. Do I agree that eastern Wa elk shouldn't be OTC antlerless for archery? YES! Do I think antlerless should be a draw tag for archery since it is for muzzy and modern? YES! Lets push for that and see how things go over the next 5 years. I feel like that will help the herds replenish a bit... BUT we also need to push HARD for predator control. Let us bait bears! Let people use hounds for mountain lion! Charge us extra for bait site licenses and hound hunting licenses. That's more funding going into the wdfw and it will knock down 2 of the big predators we have. I would say let us kill some wolves too but we all know that's not going to happen anytime soon...

Bravo

[vandeman17]

Oh mah.!! Oh My.!!! I Love a archery cause I like to challenge myself. If your a great archery hunter you can hunt any weapon and be proficient. The main reason that I changed was cause of some of the crazy rifle hunters. Got dangerous. People challenge to take my animal. 10 people in a canyon shooting at an animal and arguing about it. Not my style. I am a considerate hunter. I see someone where I want to go I find another spot. That’s getting harder to do sense not many people will be that courteous any more. Bow hunter for life

If you hunt archery for the challenge why do you hunt early season?If you truly hunt archery for the challenge you should refuse to hunt early season by the harvest numbers that we have all seen.

Oh please. You are nullifying the validity of your comments with each comment like this.

[Oh Mah]

You disagree that early archery is the easiest archery season to hunt?

[vandeman17]

Your argument, at least the way I am reading it, is that early archery season is the easiest of all options. If I am mistaken, and you are just comparing early archery to late archery then I agree.

To expand where I am coming from, I grew up rifle hunting with my dad and grandpa, mainly deer. I was about 14 or so when I first experienced elk hunting with a rifle and that was enough to entice me to switch to archery. I did it not only for the challenge but because I love the weather in early season plus it gave me the best chance to hunt elk during the rut. I have nothing against people who choose other weapons as that is 100% their decision. I would just like to see the actual data behind the decisions WDFW makes and if they can show me that elk numbers are below objective AND early archery is the main culprit then I would be ok with it. Until then, if they are making decisions saying elk numbers are low then opportunity should be cut across the board and backed up with hard numbers. 

[Skyvalhunter]

Why did rifle hunting scare you to archery?

[vandeman17]

Why did rifle hunting scare you to archery?

Didn't scare me but I didn't care for the pumpkin patch, war zone that I experienced. I watched elk getting shot at from all directions and decided it wasn't for me.

[JimmyHoffa]

Oh mah.!! Oh My.!!! I Love a archery cause I like to challenge myself. If your a great archery hunter you can hunt any weapon and be proficient. The main reason that I changed was cause of some of the crazy rifle hunters. Got dangerous. People challenge to take my animal. 10 people in a canyon shooting at an animal and arguing about it. Not my style. I am a considerate hunter. I see someone where I want to go I find another spot. That’s getting harder to do sense not many people will be that courteous any more. Bow hunter for life

My experience (westside) has been that is more likely for bowhunters to be crowded into a canyon and arguing.  When rifle season gets here in November (elk), I hardly see anyone in any kind of canyon (most are in their trucks-especially if the rain is really coming down).  Occasionally see a person on a bike or walking a gated road.  But early bow, ten guys will descend on a bugle and argue about who gets to hunt that canyon.  The bow guys (again westside-coast) seem to be really territorial--get to gates super early.  It has been kind of interesting to see the different personalities that tend to go with the different groups. 

[Oh Mah]

Your argument, at least the way I am reading it, is that early archery season is the easiest of all options. If I am mistaken, and you are just comparing early archery to late archery then I agree.

To expand where I am coming from, I grew up rifle hunting with my dad and grandpa, mainly deer. I was about 14 or so when I first experienced elk hunting with a rifle and that was enough to entice me to switch to archery. I did it not only for the challenge but because I love the weather in early season plus it gave me the best chance to hunt elk during the rut. I have nothing against people who choose other weapons as that is 100% their decision. I would just like to see the actual data behind the decisions WDFW makes and if they can show me that elk numbers are below objective AND early archery is the main culprit then I would be ok with it. Until then, if they are making decisions saying elk numbers are low then opportunity should be cut across the board and backed up with hard numbers.

That explains a lot,That's exactly what i was saying.It is only obvious to anyone that archery is more difficult than other methods,But if the elk are running mostly onto private land after the early archery then it gets quite diff. for the other user groups as well.That doesn't matter to the complainers now does it?It's all about their loss right.You were looking for an argument that wasn't there.The fact is that there is no reason for anyone to be upset about these changes,unless the complainers are only concerned about themselves and are not concerned about other hunters and the elk.It has been shown clear as glass what group harvest the most antler less elk.I guess that shows what group has been getting the most chances lately huh.The more and more i read about the whiners on all these forums,the more i like it.

[vandeman17]

Your argument, at least the way I am reading it, is that early archery season is the easiest of all options. If I am mistaken, and you are just comparing early archery to late archery then I agree.

To expand where I am coming from, I grew up rifle hunting with my dad and grandpa, mainly deer. I was about 14 or so when I first experienced elk hunting with a rifle and that was enough to entice me to switch to archery. I did it not only for the challenge but because I love the weather in early season plus it gave me the best chance to hunt elk during the rut. I have nothing against people who choose other weapons as that is 100% their decision. I would just like to see the actual data behind the decisions WDFW makes and if they can show me that elk numbers are below objective AND early archery is the main culprit then I would be ok with it. Until then, if they are making decisions saying elk numbers are low then opportunity should be cut across the board and backed up with hard numbers.

That explains a lot,That's exactly what i was saying.It is only obvious to anyone that archery is more difficult than other methods,But if the elk are running mostly onto private land after the early archery then it gets quite diff. for the other user groups as well.That doesn't matter to the complainers now does it?It's all about their loss right.You were looking for an argument that wasn't there.The fact is that there is no reason for anyone to be upset about these changes,unless the complainers are only concerned about themselves and are not concerned about other hunters and the elk.It has been shown clear as glass what group harvest the most antler less elk.I guess that shows what group has been getting the most chances lately huh.The more and more i read about the whiners on all these forums,the more i like it.

All I can do is  at your continued rambling non sense. Elk running to private ground after archery. Where you come up with your "knowledge" astounds me but isn't worth mine, or anyone's time to rebute. Good day and enjoy your pumpkin patch.

[Oh Mah]

It's called reading the material that has been put out.  Laugh all you want,To the members that educate themselves on these matters are surely laughing at your responses to this thread not mine. 

Do you hunt any other group than archery?

[elkcamp64]

All I can do is    at your continued rambling non sense. Elk running to private ground after archery. Where you come up with your "knowledge" astounds me but isn't worth mine, or anyone's time to rebute. Good day and enjoy your pumpkin patch.

WHAT?? Did you actually just ask that “knowledge” question of Oh Mah?
With that remark, I’m convinced that you are truly uneducated of a lead cow’s ability to remember safe locations and move the herds to those spots. This applies to calving locales, areas to forage during deep winters, security during hunting seasons such as reserves, private lands that can’t be hunted or any other place that provides them the greatest safety.
You said it, it’s there in your written word and regardless of where anyone sides on this issue, one thing all seasoned hunters will agree upon is this; you are undereducated to the dynamics of any animals basic needs of survival. Food, water, shelter, and the often overlooked fourth element: Means of escape and avoidance.
WOW

[vandeman17]

All I can do is    at your continued rambling non sense. Elk running to private ground after archery. Where you come up with your "knowledge" astounds me but isn't worth mine, or anyone's time to rebute. Good day and enjoy your pumpkin patch.

WHAT?? Did you actually just ask that “knowledge” question of Oh Mah?
With that remark, I’m convinced that you are truly uneducated of a lead cow’s ability to remember safe locations and move the herds to those spots. This applies to calving locales, areas to forage during deep winters, security during hunting seasons such as reserves, private lands that can’t be hunted or any other place that provides them the greatest safety.
You said it, it’s there in your written word and regardless of where anyone sides on this issue, one thing all seasoned hunters will agree upon is this; you are undereducated to the dynamics of any animals basic needs of survival. Food, water, shelter, and the often overlooked fourth element: Means of escape and avoidance.
WOW

Boy, you put me in my place. Its all archery hunters fault that elk go to these safe spots and has nothing to do with the rut ending and the onslaught of muzzy and modern hunters hitting the woods too. Your assumptions of my knowledge as well as blaming early archery hunters for your shortcomings is comical.